British Citizenship Long Shot?

[WCS314]

Hi everyone,

I've posted before and I was wondering if anybody could give me their 2 cents before I try making a formal application. My wife was recently granted British Citizen status under Section 4L based on historical unfairness (with the help of a solicitor). I know I qualify for a spousal visa if we move to the U.K., but I am wondering if I have my own claim under 4L. I am an EU/US citizen but I have never settled in the U.K. to qualify for any other kind of avenue relating to Brexit.

4th Maternal Great Grandfather born England 1804
3rd MaternalGreat Grandfather born in England or USA in 1842 (even if born in USA, Act of 1772 transmitted British subject status to two male generations born abroad)
2nd Maternal Great Grandfather born 1877 in USA

I understand all of the above to be British subjects as a matter of law because of the Act of 1772 which is consistent with the guidance the Home Office gives online.

1st Maternal Grandfather was born in 1900 and died in 1980. My issue here is I think he was entitled by one of the many changes to the citizenship laws by Parliament to become a British subject, a CUKC or a CUKC by descent somewhere during the course of his life. I think the law is pretty clear that at minimum his father was a British subject. I do not believe he ever registered at any consulate, but my understanding is this requirement was eventually abolished and I wonder if he just maintained British nationality by operation of law under the 1948 Nationality Act.

If he did retain some form of U.K. nationality, my maternal grandmother was born in 1933, my mother in 1956 and I was born in 1987. My grandmother and mother did not make any effort to claim British nationality either as far as I can discern (although my grandmother frequently returned to England and Germany during her life). My wife's application was granted under 4L, but it was slightly different. Her maternal grandmother was born in the U.K. in the 1920's, her mother in 1956 and she was born in 1985. The solicitor cited, amongst other things, the Romein decision in her application. Her grandmother or mother never made any effort to register with a consulate.

My guess is this would be a long shot for me but I want to make sure I do not miss an opportunity if it is there.

[secret.simon]

I'll start by saying that a Form ARD application is effectively cost-free, because the £130 citizenship ceremony fee is fully refunded if the application fails. So, no harm in applying.

However, such an application is highly unlikely to succeed.

4th Maternal Great Grandfather born England 1804
3rd MaternalGreat Grandfather born in England or USA in 1842 (even if born in USA, Act of 1772 transmitted British subject status to two male generations born abroad)
2nd Maternal Great Grandfather born 1877 in USA

Just to quickly clarify, by terms like "4th Maternal Great Grandfather", do you mean "Maternal great-great-great-great-grandfather"? That may not be obvious.

Since at least 1914, the general rule of acquiring British subject status (before 1948)/CUKC status (1949-1983)/British citizenship (after 1983) is that it is limited to an automatic acquisition one generation outside the UK and any further acquisition is by registration. Your connection to the UK is simply far too distant to rely upon.

However, the bigger obstacle to your application comes from laws limiting migration of CUKCs to the UK in the immediate aftermath of the end of Empire. In the 1960s and 1971, a series of (Commonwealth) Immigration Acts limited the ability of CUKCs who did not have a direct connection to the UK to move to the UK. That direct connection to the UK itself (as opposed to a colony) was called patriality/Right of Abode (RoA) and was defined as the person, either parent or either grandparent being born, naturalised or registered in the UK. From the start, RoA was gender-neutral and could be acquired through either parent/any grandparent.

In 1983, only those CUKCs with RoA became British citizens. Therefore, British citizenship in 1983 was limited to those CUKCs who were themselves or had one or their parents or one of their grandparents born, registered or naturalised in the UK.

Your wife had a maternal grandparent born in the UK and hence could claim to have RoA as well. You do not appear to have that connection. I suspect that that lack of RoA will be fatal to a Form ARD application.

(As an aside, just to quickly clarify, registration in the above paragraphs does not mean registration of the birth abroad, but is a means of acquiring British citizenship for somebody who is not a British citizen. A successful Form ARD application, such as for your wife, leads to a registration of the person as a British citizen.)

You mentioned that you were an EU/US citizen. Do you hold Irish citizenship? If you do, you can move to the UK and live in the UK with the same rights as a British citizen on your Irish passport.

[CR001]

You mentioned that you were an EU/US citizen. Do you hold Irish citizenship? If you do, you can move to the UK and live in the UK with the same rights as a British citizen on your Irish passport.

OP is Italian.

viewtopic.php?p=1802180#p1802180

[WCS314]

(Not Irish, Italian as other person indicated)

What got me thinking that my great grandfather might have been a CUKC was the transitional provisions of the 1948 nationality law. If the 1846 ancestor was born in England, then the next two male generations would have been British subjects by law. And the next two male generations were born prior to 1914-- one is 1877 and the next in 1900.

Paragraph 12(4) of the 1948 Act said "[a] person who was a British subject immediately before the date of the commencement of this Act and does not become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of any of the foregoing provisions of this section shall on that date become such a citizen unless— (a)he is then a citizen of any country mentioned in subsection (3) of section one of this Act under a citizenship law having effect in that country, or a citizen of Eire ; or (b)he is then potentially a citizen of any country mentioned in subsection (3) of section one of this Act."

The countries in subsection 3 were Commonwealth countries and my great grandfather was not an Irish citizen. So my immediate thought was he was a CUKC effective when the act was passed (because his father likely had British subject status). My great grandfather's daugther (my grandmother) born in 1931, to me, was likely a British citizen by descent under Section 5 of the Act. At a minimum, I thought maybe my mother might have a 4C claim.

With regard to the right of abode, if he was a CUKC by birth effective in 1949 when the act took effect, he (would have) had the right of abode on 31 December 1982. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-v1.0.pdf

I agree its very attenuated, but as you say maybe it's worth a try since there is no fee. I would just have to collect all the documents, etc and I'm wondering if it's just not worth it.

I'll start by saying that a Form ARD application is effectively cost-free, because the £130 citizenship ceremony fee is fully refunded if the application fails. So, no harm in applying.

However, such an application is highly unlikely to succeed.

4th Maternal Great Grandfather born England 1804
3rd MaternalGreat Grandfather born in England or USA in 1842 (even if born in USA, Act of 1772 transmitted British subject status to two male generations born abroad)
2nd Maternal Great Grandfather born 1877 in USA

Just to quickly clarify, by terms like "4th Maternal Great Grandfather", do you mean "Maternal great-great-great-great-grandfather"? That may not be obvious.

Since at least 1914, the general rule of acquiring British subject status (before 1948)/CUKC status (1949-1983)/British citizenship (after 1983) is that it is limited to an automatic acquisition one generation outside the UK and any further acquisition is by registration. Your connection to the UK is simply far too distant to rely upon.

However, the bigger obstacle to your application comes from laws limiting migration of CUKCs to the UK in the immediate aftermath of the end of Empire. In the 1960s and 1971, a series of (Commonwealth) Immigration Acts limited the ability of CUKCs who did not have a direct connection to the UK to move to the UK. That direct connection to the UK itself (as opposed to a colony) was called patriality/Right of Abode (RoA) and was defined as the person, either parent or either grandparent being born, naturalised or registered in the UK. From the start, RoA was gender-neutral and could be acquired through either parent/any grandparent.

In 1983, only those CUKCs with RoA became British citizens. Therefore, British citizenship in 1983 was limited to those CUKCs who were themselves or had one or their parents or one of their grandparents born, registered or naturalised in the UK.

Your wife had a maternal grandparent born in the UK and hence could claim to have RoA as well. You do not appear to have that connection. I suspect that that lack of RoA will be fatal to a Form ARD application.

(As an aside, just to quickly clarify, registration in the above paragraphs does not mean registration of the birth abroad, but is a means of acquiring British citizenship for somebody who is not a British citizen. A successful Form ARD application, such as for your wife, leads to a registration of the person as a British citizen.)

You mentioned that you were an EU/US citizen. Do you hold Irish citizenship? If you do, you can move to the UK and live in the UK with the same rights as a British citizen on your Irish passport.

[secret.simon]

With regard to the right of abode, if he was a CUKC by birth effective in 1949 when the act took effect, he (would have) had the right of abode on 31 December 1982.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t-v1.0.pdf

Where in that document are you getting that interpretation from?

The entire purpose of creating a separate RoA was to deprive CUKCs of their ability, which all of them had at that time, to move to the UK, unless they or their parents or grandparents had a direct connection to the UK.

CUKCs born before that date would still lack RoA if they did not have a connection with the UK within the previous two generations.

As I understand it, your pathway through the flowchart is No - Yes - No - No - No - No.

But I may have misunderstood your family history. So correct me if I am wrong.

Also note that the requirements for RoA had to be met by the person individually. So if your mother met the requirements for RoA because, say hypothetically, her grandparent was born in the UK, it does not follow that you meet that requirement, because in your case, that person would be your great-grand parent and one step too distant.

It may be possible for your mother to meet the requirements (I'd have to look into that), but you to fail to meet the requirement.