Regaining stamp 4 after it's been expired for two years

[avro1959]

Folks, I've tried searching the forum for an answer to this but wasn't able to find relevant results.

Short story for context: I'm Canadian and my spouse is Irish, we flew into DUB late 2019 with our marriage cert and declared our intent to stay; we hit up Burgh Quay and I was issued a 3-year IRP (stamp 4). Went back to Canada to wrap things up but after some unexpected medical issues + a pandemic, we were unable to complete our move to Ireland. Around 2021 we moved to Belfast and have lived there since. My stamp 4 IRP expired in 2022 and I naively didn't think to inform INIS that we left the country. Now we're looking to move to the republic and I'm trying to figure out my next steps.

Question: has anyone been in a similar situation with a long-expired stamp 4 IRP (based on Irish spouse)? Was there a way to renew the IRP after expiry or is the best approach to re-do a "landing" at DUB airport with our marriage cert and try to get a new IRP at Burgh Quay?

[Angel99]

Folks, I've tried searching the forum for an answer to this but wasn't able to find relevant results.

Short story for context: I'm Canadian and my spouse is Irish, we flew into DUB late 2019 with our marriage cert and declared our intent to stay; we hit up Burgh Quay and I was issued a 3-year IRP (stamp 4). Went back to Canada to wrap things up but after some unexpected medical issues + a pandemic, we were unable to complete our move to Ireland. Around 2021 we moved to Belfast and have lived there since. My stamp 4 IRP expired in 2022 and I naively didn't think to inform INIS that we left the country. Now we're looking to move to the republic and I'm trying to figure out my next steps.

Question: has anyone been in a similar situation with a long-expired stamp 4 IRP (based on Irish spouse)? Was there a way to renew the IRP after expiry or is the best approach to re-do a "landing" at DUB airport with our marriage cert and try to get a new IRP at Burgh Quay?

Hi,

You can just cross from NI to Ireland via car or train and apply for Stamp 4 again at the Garda Immigration office or Burgh Quay. You don't need to fly to Dublin airport. Just show them your residency in NI.

After 1 year of living in Ireland you can apply for Irish citizenship since your stay in NI with your Irish spouse counts towards Irish naturalisation for Irish spouses.

[avro1959]

You can just cross from NI to Ireland via car or train and apply for Stamp 4 again at the Garda Immigration office or Burgh Quay. You don't need to fly to Dublin airport. Just show them your residency in NI.

Thank you for the reply Angel99. I was under the impression that I cannot apply for an IRP while on a tourist/temporary visitor permission. Wouldn't I be entering as a temporary visitor if I crossed the (unmanned) border from NI to ROI? I may try this route if there's no harm in doing so (although I'm not entirely knowledgeable about the consequences of such stuff).

After 1 year of living in Ireland you can apply for Irish citizenship since your stay in NI with your Irish spouse counts towards Irish naturalisation for Irish spouses.

I'm already eligible to apply for Irish citizenship based on the spousal route and 3 years of legal residence in NI - I'll be doing up the application asap. We're just trying to move back to ROI in the short-term, hence trying to figure out the IRP situation.

[Angel99]

You can apply for stamp 4 on the route i suggested.

You are already on the Island of Ireland (IE + NI), UK and Ireland also have CTA + you have visa waiver. Go to your nearest town Garda Immigration office at the border after entering Ireland and get an entry stamp from them. Then apply for the Stamp 4 at your place of residence.

The nearest towns enroute to the Republic are;

Omeath
Dundalk
Letterkenny
Cavan
Monaghan

[Vadrar]

UK and Ireland also have CTA

The Common Travel Area only exists for Irish and British citizens; it is irrelevant to anyone else. Checks are rare but it can’t be legally used by anyone other than Irish or British and it’s best not to suggest it is available to others. Citizens with visa waiver rights crossing by road are relying on their visa waiver rights, not the CTA, even if it feels the same. It won’t make much difference to the OP, but it can confuse other readers without visa waiver rights.

[Angel99]

UK and Ireland also have CTA

The Common Travel Area only exists for Irish and British citizens; it is irrelevant to anyone else. Checks are rare but it can’t be legally used by anyone other than Irish or British and it’s best not to suggest it is available to others. Citizens with visa waiver rights crossing by road are relying on their visa waiver rights, not the CTA, even if it feels the same. It won’t make much difference to the OP, but it can confuse other readers without visa waiver rights.

Hi,

You are aware EU and Irish spouses can cross from UK to Ireland and apply for Stamp 4EUFam and Stamp 4(via
Irish National Unit, Immigration Service Delivery) if the Irish spouse doesn't have Irish visa even if they are not visa waiver nationals.

That's why I mentioned CTA in my advise.

The post is about spouses of Irish citizens.

[Vadrar]

UK and Ireland also have CTA

The Common Travel Area only exists for Irish and British citizens; it is irrelevant to anyone else. Checks are rare but it can’t be legally used by anyone other than Irish or British and it’s best not to suggest it is available to others. Citizens with visa waiver rights crossing by road are relying on their visa waiver rights, not the CTA, even if it feels the same. It won’t make much difference to the OP, but it can confuse other readers without visa waiver rights.

Hi,

You are aware EU and Irish spouses can cross from UK to Ireland and apply for Stamp 4EUFam and Stamp 4(via
Irish National Unit, Immigration Service Delivery) if the Irish spouse doesn't have Irish visa even if they are not visa waiver nationals.

That's why I mentioned CTA in my advise.

The post is about spouses of Irish citizens.

Exactly - a spouse who is not Irish or British entering Ireland needs immigration permission either via EU or Irish law. Neither is CTA and the CTA gives them no rights. If they had access to CTA rights they’d need no further immigration permission- but they do, as you say and so the CTA shpuldnt be suggested as a route.

CTA does not exist for anyone but Irish or British and it isn’t relevant for anyone else. It doesn’t cover their spouses if the spouse isn't British or Irish. This is best illustrated by the fact that an Italian spouse of an Irish national cant travel from Dublin to London and enjoy automatic residency rights of CTA; they need to apply via a different route. They do have visa waiver rights for short term stays; again, nothing to do with CTA.

[Angel99]

You are misunderstanding yourself.

If you are a spouse of an Irish/EU citizen, you can cross from NI to ROI via land border and apply for residence permission without the need to apply for **entry visa** and can use CTA. Irish spouses residence in NI is even reckonable for Irish citizenship. This should clear up things to you. EU spouses also have automatic residence rights in all EU countries.

***Other nationals who have no Irish or EU family of course can't cross from NI to ROI with CTA.

[Vadrar]

You are misunderstanding yourself.

No, I am not misunderstanding myself or the CTA legislation at all.

'Common Travel Area rights can only be exercised by citizens of Ireland and the UK. If you are not a citizen of Ireland or the UK, you cannot exercise Common Travel Area rights.' Source: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/g ... a%20rights.

'Your Common Travel Area rights do not extend to your family. This means that if your spouse or partner, or other relative, is not an Irish or UK citizen, they may have to apply for residence in the UK.' Source: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/g ... 20the%20UK.

If you are a spouse of an Irish/EU citizen, you can cross from NI to ROI via land border and apply for residence permission without the need to apply for **entry visa** ...

Correct. Rights conferred by EU law or Irish immigration law. Not CTA. Which is the point I've made multiple times. Some spouses may also have visa waiver rights because of their birth citizenship, in addition to their EU or Irish immigration rights conferred by their spouse being EU/Irish.

If you are a spouse of an Irish/EU citizen...can use CTA.

Incorrect, see the sources above, or refer to the CTA legislation.

Irish spouses residence in NI is even reckonable for Irish citizenship.

Of course. This is a right provided by Irish domestic immigration law. It has nothing to do with the CTA - or it would be reciprocated by the UK with residency in ROI by spouses of British to qualify for British naturalisation. This doesn't happen, and so isn't part of the *entirely reciprocal* CTA.

None of your examples are evidence of the CTA being extended to non-British or Irish spouses. They are all domestic Irish or EU law. Your confusion is pretty common, which is why I'm going to such lengths to explain it, as it catches people out.

If you look for any evidence that the CTA extends to non-Irish or non-British, irrespective of who they are married to, you will find it doesn't exist. Rights given under EU or Irish domestic law are explicitly not CTA no matter how often you try to repeat it.

[Angel99]

No one mentioned CTA covers Irish spouses or Union citizens. I just tried to make it clear to you if you are one of the family members I mentioned, you can travel via Northern Ireland to Republic of Ireland without an entry visa regardless if you are visa waiver national. After arrival you can request for residence permission letter for IRP from the relevant authorities and it will be granted.

This all possible because of CTA especially for Irish family members since Union citizens could still apply for entry visa at the land border.

[Vadrar]

No one mentioned CTA covers Irish spouses or Union citizens. I just tried to make it clear to you if you are one of the family members I mentioned, you can travel via Northern Ireland to Republic of Ireland without an entry visa regardless if you are visa waiver national. After arrival you can request for residence permission letter for IRP from the relevant authorities and it will be granted.

This all possible because of CTA especially for Irish family members since Union citizens could still apply for entry visa at the land border.

I think I now understand where you are doing; you're conflating two different things and calling them the same name. The CTA is a set of rights that grant freedom of movement to Irish and British citizens. It is *not* a geography and it is not the presence or absence of staffing at a border; both are nothing more than logistics.

You say 'This all possible because of CTA especially for Irish family members...' But the rights of British and Irish (ie the CTA) are meaningless to anyone else. The logistics of those rights - not the rights themselves- mean no-one can talk to an immigration official at the land border. You would never say a British person was using EU freedom of movement rights just because an empty EU passport security lane was opened to them to ease overcrowding. No matter how a British person physically passes through an EU or Schengen border, or if they are face to face with an immigration official or sweep through an e-gate (if they become available for British); they are never using EU freedom of movement rights anymore. But you keep calling the mechanics of the land border (the security lane) between ROI and NI 'the CTA' (the rights).

This isn't irrelevant pedantry; conflating the logistics with the rights causes massive confusion for a lot of people. On this and other forums there are regularly people who mistake the unstaffed land border (an operational decision for everyone) with the CTA (a set of rights for Irish and British) because people use the same name to refer to them both. At the centre where I volunteer we have continually had at least one, and often more than one, non-Irish/British person we are supporting who faced immigration/ naturalisation/ tax/ legal consequences because they thought they had freedom of movement rights because people refer to operational logistics as the CTA. You can help forum readers by using the terms accurately or confuse them by mis-using the terms.