UK Visitor Visa Refusal for dad and sister

[shaj_99]

Hi all

My dad and my sister applied for UK visitor visa few weeks ago to visit me and my family but got refused. Sorry about a very lengthy post.

Background

I am a British citizen and a director of limited company. My wife who is also a british citizen is salaried employee.

My dad and mom visited us 2 times in the past (2007, 2010). Mom passed away 2 year back and dad lives on his own in his own house. Dad is retired pensionor but does some consulting work time to time.

My sister never visited UK before. She is a dentist who is married with 2 kids works in their own private Dental clinic in India.

For Dad I stated that I am sponsoring my Dad's stay and expenses while in UK and he will be paying for flight tickets.
Following documents were provided:
1. Dad's current bank account statement, Fixed deposit and pension statement
2. Invitation Letter, 3 Bank account statement of me (sponsor) & my limited company tax returns
- Current account (for showing source) - Around 2800£ balance
- Savings Account - £4500 balance : Specified in the invitation letter that this amount is kept aside for this sole purpose
- Savings ISA account - £8300 balance
3. My Overseas Citizen of India card : to demonstrate relationship to my dad
4. My UK passport
5. Previous passport with perious Uk visa
6. Covering letter


For my sister, her husband is a sponsor.
1. Fixed deposit bank acount certificate in my sisters name, Tax returns of my sister
2. Funding letter from my bother-in-law,his Fixed deposit certificate, his Curent bank statement ( To show the source ), Marriage certificate
3. Invitation Letter, 3 Bank account statement of me (sponsor) & my limited company tax returns
- Current account (for showing source) - Around 2800£ balance
- Savings Account - £4500 balance
- Savings ISA account - £8300 balance - Specified in the invitation letter that this amount is kept aside to cover trip costs
3. My Overseas Citizen of India card , Her passport: to demonstrate relationship to my sister ( Same parents showing on those 2 documents)
4. My UK passport
5. Covering letter

My invitation letter is a common letter to invite both my sister and dad.

Refusal reasons:
For my Dad
You state you will be travelling to the UK for 2 months to visit family.
• Whilst I recognise that family visits are important, I must consider the information regarding your sponsor’s support of your visit separately in my assessment of your application. To consider whether or not I am satisfied that your intentions are as stated and that you meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules, I must assess your own personal and financial circumstances.
• You have stated that you wish to visit your son and that they will maintain and accommodate you. You have indicated that your sponsor will pay £3,500 towards the cost of your trip. You have provided a bank statement in your sponsor's name from TSB Bank (account number ending 5468) which shows a closing balance of £2,842.22 on (06/05/2024). You have not demonstrated that your sponsor has any additional funds available to them to cover the cost of your trip. I am therefore not satisfied that your sponsor can and will provide you with support for the intended duration of your stay. Your application is therefore refused under paragraph V4.3 (c) of the Immigration Rules.
• I have made careful consideration of your family ties to both the UK and your home country. In making my consideration, I note the statements made by you in your visa application form and supporting information whereby you state you have no remaining dependants in your home country. By contrast, in making my consideration of your familial ties to the UK, I note the presence of your son, daughter- in- law & grandchildren who all reside in the UK. This, in conjunction with the concerns relating to your economic ties stated above, gives me reason to further doubt that you will depart the UK at the end of the period stated by you.
• Your application is therefore refused under paragraph V.4.2 (a), (c) and V4.3 of the Immigration Rules.

Looks like they have not considered or seen 2 other bank accounts which has enough and more funds. Specifically mentioned in the invitation letter that funds kept aside in Savings ISA account to cover this trip costs.
As to the second reason , I am not sure what can I provide to demonstrate that he will go back in time. I have mentioned that my sister and family lives in India and regularly visited by them and extended family.



For my sister
You state you will be travelling to the UK for 2 months to visit family.
• Whilst I recognise that family visits are important, I must consider the information regarding your sponsor’s support of your visit separately in my assessment of your application. To consider whether or not I am satisfied that your intentions are as stated and that you meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules, I must assess your own personal and financial circumstances.
• You have submitted a personal bank statement from SBI Bank (acc ending 4705) showing a closing balance of 472,248.09 INR (£4,440.95 where £1= 106.288 INR as per Oanda.Com on the date of assessing this application). This account does not demonstrate you are in receipt of an income from your stated self-employment as there are no references to your business in the transaction history and you have not provided any information on how you derive an income from your business. Without being able to determine the origin of these credits, or clarify that they are a salary or earnings related to your business, I am not satisfied this account demonstrates your circumstances as declared by you and this leads me to doubt how much funding is available to you. This in turn damages the credibility of your application.

• I have made careful consideration of your family ties to both the UK and your home country. In making my consideration, I note the statements made by you in your visa application form and supporting information whereby you state you have no remaining dependants in your home country. By contrast, in making my consideration of your familial ties to the UK, I note the presence of your brother & sister- in- law who both reside in the UK. This, in conjunction with the concerns relating to your economic ties stated above, gives me reason to further doubt that you will depart the UK at the end of the period stated by you.
• Your application is therefore refused under paragraph V.4.2 (a) and (c) of the Immigration Rules.

Here second reason is completely wrong. In contrary the application mentioned that her daughter is a dependant back in India in addition to her husband and her son who are not travelling to UK.

For the 1st reason, I believe the question is valid. It is their peronal bank account that is used to recieve payments from patients (customers). Many times payment will be in cash which they will deposit to the account.

As the refusal letters says that 'no rights for appeal and administrative review' only way is to reapply.

This time for my dad,
To show my funds, I will move all amounts to one account and show that account.
To prove ties back to home country:
I can include documents showing that his house back in India is in his name and other land ownership documents back in India.
and prbably a letter from the companies that he does consulting for saying that they will be needing his services.

For my sister:
To show source of funds : I can show income tax returns for my brother-in-law
and probably a letter from his accountant explaining the accounts. Not sure if this will be considered.

To show ties back to India:
Passport copies of her daughter(17 years old) - dependant. Son is more than 18, but is a student in a professional college. Not sure if he can also be considered as a dependant.

Could anyone you please suggest any pointers or suggestions for the second application?

Any help is highly appreceated.
Thanks

[Ticktack]

A few errors have been made in my view.
Firstly and most importantly, why are they holidaying for 2 months? 10 days, 2 weeks, get the visa and do 6 months if you like, but never shoot yourself in the foot like that.
Then your dad says you'll cough out money that you don't currently have. How does that work exactly?
Fine the ECO missed the other 2 accounts. Sometimes, when there's too much info, things get missing in the moment.
For your dad, you can try a PAP, this just might work as there are a few errors in the decision making. Also he's been here before 2ce, but it's been more that 14 years ago now. So he would be treated like a fresher. A lot of his circumstances would have largely changed in the time frame.
It's almost like after 10 years they wipe you off if you haven't renewed (don't quote me).

For your sister, similar errors.
2 months visit on the first try.
Same accounts as your dad, thereby nullifying the ingenuity of you being able to sponsor your dad. Your total of £ 15,600 now divided into 2. So you're saying that you'd cough out 8k out 15k for family. The ECO would never believe that you'd spend over half your savings on them.
Applications should never have been done together.
Where is her salary coming from. No description in her personal bank statements.

2nd reason might not be entirely right, but they only need one to be right. Other reasons are just to beef up the refusal. It's almost like going to court with 20 count charge. They only need 1 to stick and your on your way to a fully sponsored holiday in jail for a few years.

Always nice to read other peoples story on this forum before making applications. It helps gives you insights into familiar circumstances.

[lolo2]

As the refusal letters says that 'no rights for appeal and administrative review' only way is to reapply.

This time for my dad,
To show my funds, I will move all amounts to one account and show that account.
To prove ties back to home country:
I can include documents showing that his house back in India is in his name and other land ownership documents back in India.
and prbably a letter from the companies that he does consulting for saying that they will be needing his services.

For my sister:
To show source of funds : I can show income tax returns for my brother-in-law
and probably a letter from his accountant explaining the accounts. Not sure if this will be considered.

To show ties back to India:
Passport copies of her daughter(17 years old) - dependant. Son is more than 18, but is a student in a professional college. Not sure if he can also be considered as a dependant.

Could anyone you please suggest any pointers or suggestions for the second application?

Any help is highly appreceated.
Thanks

Why you didn't include these documents in the application? I believe the outcome would have been different. Money and assets available under the applicant's name are fundamental. Also if your sister owns the dental clinic or the premise where she practices, a document demonstrating ownership would definitely help.

Are your accounts under a different name e.g. some under your Ltd company and others under yours? I also would have consolidated all the money available as a sponsor in one single account (personal NOT company's one), evenly during the 4-6 months prior submitting the application. Also some ISAs have certain conditions in terms of flexibility/availability, and UKVI know that.

I'd say you need to better organise these items before applying again.

[shaj_99]

Thanks for your pointers,
In hindsight, I should have gone for smaller period even though reason is to spend time together not just visiting places.

Regarding the funding, I only offered to fund fully for my dad and partially for my sister. Main funding for my sister was from her husband.
For my dad, I didn't say he will fund becasue I can't prove regular income for him even though he has savings. Is it better to show that he will fund the trip himself and show the saving bank account to show the funds?

Again I should have done a bit more research as I have now seen someone else got rejected due to not showing all in one account.

You said Applications should never have been done together. What is the reasoning behind that? You think I should have applied dad first and applied sisters after he getting the visa?

Thanks
Shaj

A few errors have been made in my view.
Firstly and most importantly, why are they holidaying for 2 months? 10 days, 2 weeks, get the visa and do 6 months if you like, but never shoot yourself in the foot like that.
Then your dad says you'll cough out money that you don't currently have. How does that work exactly?
Fine the ECO missed the other 2 accounts. Sometimes, when there's too much info, things get missing in the moment.
For your dad, you can try a PAP, this just might work as there are a few errors in the decision making. Also he's been here before 2ce, but it's been more that 14 years ago now. So he would be treated like a fresher. A lot of his circumstances would have largely changed in the time frame.
It's almost like after 10 years they wipe you off if you haven't renewed (don't quote me).

For your sister, similar errors.
2 months visit on the first try.
Same accounts as your dad, thereby nullifying the ingenuity of you being able to sponsor your dad. Your total of £ 15,600 now divided into 2. So you're saying that you'd cough out 8k out 15k for family. The ECO would never believe that you'd spend over half your savings on them.
Applications should never have been done together.
Where is her salary coming from. No description in her personal bank statements.

2nd reason might not be entirely right, but they only need one to be right. Other reasons are just to beef up the refusal. It's almost like going to court with 20 count charge. They only need 1 to stick and your on your way to a fully sponsored holiday in jail for a few years.

Always nice to read other peoples story on this forum before making applications. It helps gives you insights into familiar circumstances.

[shaj_99]

Hi lolo2,

Thanks for your response.

As I was funding, I didn't think of including assets of my dad in the application. Now I realise that it would have made the case for proving ties back to home country.

All accounts I showed are my personal accounts. One of the ISA was one year fixed ISA which was maturing in May. May be they saw it as a limitation to access funds due to fixed nature. I have moved all of them to a easy access cash ISA account which I plan to use for my next application.

Good point on ownership. Surely will look in to that.

Thanks again
Shaj

As the refusal letters says that 'no rights for appeal and administrative review' only way is to reapply.

This time for my dad,
To show my funds, I will move all amounts to one account and show that account.
To prove ties back to home country:
I can include documents showing that his house back in India is in his name and other land ownership documents back in India.
and prbably a letter from the companies that he does consulting for saying that they will be needing his services.

For my sister:
To show source of funds : I can show income tax returns for my brother-in-law
and probably a letter from his accountant explaining the accounts. Not sure if this will be considered.

To show ties back to India:
Passport copies of her daughter(17 years old) - dependant. Son is more than 18, but is a student in a professional college. Not sure if he can also be considered as a dependant.

Could anyone you please suggest any pointers or suggestions for the second application?

Any help is highly appreceated.
Thanks

Why you didn't include these documents in the application? I believe the outcome would have been different. Money and assets available under the applicant's name are fundamental. Also if your sister owns the dental clinic or the premise where she practices, a document demonstrating ownership would definitely help.

Are your accounts under a different name e.g. some under your Ltd company and others under yours? I also would have consolidated all the money available as a sponsor in one single account (personal NOT company's one), evenly during the 4-6 months prior submitting the application. Also some ISAs have certain conditions in terms of flexibility/availability, and UKVI know that.

I'd say you need to better organise these items before applying again.

[lolo2]

The role of the sponsor in a visitors visa application is complementary, it's the main applicant who needs to demonstrate strong financial and personal ties to the home country.

I personally would use a regular savings or current account as evidence for this purpose, and not an ISA account. Also the money transfers between accounts should ideally be evenly spread along some time before submitting a new application - I would say a few months. Those sudden money movements just before an application is made are always flagged by UKVI.

Take a look at other posts with similar situations.

[AmazonianX]

Address the points of refusals copiously highlighted ang guidance provided by previous comments.
For your sister, personal account does not mix well for business especially to HO on immigration matters.
Money trail is required for funds in account.