Eligibility to register children born abroad

[Anonbha]

Hello,

I recently got my British citizenship and passport.
I have two children both born abroad and would like register them as British citizens.
My spouse who is also the children's mother has ILR.

Child 1:
Age - almost 7 years
In UK since Feb 2018 (i.e. travelled as soon as visa was granted).
Got their ILR in April 2022. Long absence from UK between April 2022 - Feb 2023 (was with mother when she was having the 2nd child).

Child 2:
Age - just turned 2 years
In UK since Feb 2023 (i.e. travelled as soon as visa was granted).
This child has ILE which I believe is as good as ILR for intents and purposes.

I believe from my reading I'd need to apply under "Registration at the Home Secretary’s discretion" and under "Children applying in line with parents".

There is a requirement that says "the child has been resident in the UK for the last 2 years". Looking at some other docs it seems to suggest this only applies for children above 13 years?
Also how many days of absence is allowed within this 2 years period?
For adults the guidance is pretty clear in terms of number of days and that they should have been physically in the country 3/5 years before on the day of application. Such clarity doesn't seem to be provided for children cases?

Can someone please help me to understand where I stand with my children?

[vinny]

Should be okay to register them under Section 3(1).

[Anonbha]

Should be okay to register them under Section 3(1).

Hi vinny, thank you for the short, sweet and incredibly helpful reply.

One (hopefully last) follow question, under the "Child’s future intentions" it states:
"the child, or one or both of their parents, has recently left the UK for a period of more than 6 months".

I can't see any guidance on what "recently" means. As per my OP, ~1.5 years ago child 1 (and my wife) have be absent from the UK for roughly 9 months.
I did of course also visit them for the birth but I was within the limits of naturalisation application (hence was granted my citizenship).

I believe we have a good excuse, we were having a 2nd child and was in middle of buying a house. It just made sense to have my wife's parents to help out with new born+1st child temporarily.

Any explanation or guidance on this point?

[vinny]

If “recently” is not defined in the guidance, then they should accept a natural meaning, which may also be vague!

Normally, I guess a young child’s future intentions include happily living with their parents forever? If you ask your children this question, then do tell us their responses.

Thankfully, your wife also avoided UK birth trauma.

FYI: Grandparents applying to visit may be refused, if childcare was mentioned.

[Anonbha]

Thank you vinny.

I'll confirm with the kids
One can barely speak

Thanks for the extra information about the grandparents. Childcare wasn't the issue, postpartum care on the other hand.... we had learnt our lesson after the first child and what complications we might face.

[vinny]

I'll confirm with the kids
One can barely speak

Indeed. Hopefully, this shows that some sections and inferences in the guidance are not applicable to young children.

[Anonbha]

I have yet another question!
So I have started filling the online application and the application asks for grandparents' details.

The form asks to:
"Provide details of your grandparent from whom your mother or father derived British citizenship by descent."

I did not get British citizenship by descent.

Still filled in the form anyway as the paternal grandparents are British.

Then in the Documents checklist sections its asking for
"XXXX's British grandparent's birth certificate, registration or naturalisation certificate, or passport"
AND
"XXXX's grandparents' marriage certificate"

Why is it asking for the grandparents details?
not even sure my parent have a marriage certificate!

[AmazonianX]

The forms are generic and members previously reported same.
Application can be made successfully without providing such details not applicable to you/applicants.

[Anonbha]

The forms are generic and members previously reported same.
Application can be made successfully without providing such details not applicable to you/applicants.

Thank you for the quick response.
The next bit is finding a professional referee.
I guess it's best wait till school opens in September for the older child and I guess much like the case above it doesn't really apply to a 2 year old who's mostly just stayed at home with mum.

Would it help writing a letter to explain this? Do they even read covering letters uploaded online with the application?

[vinny]

A two year old child would have no referees

Each referee must have known you for at least 3 years.

who meet the criteria.

However,

For child applicants at least one of the referees must be a person who has dealt with the child in a professional role such as a teacher, doctor, health visitor or social worker. Where a child cannot provide a referee who has dealt with them in a professional capacity and has provided documents to show that they have attempted to do so, two referees who meet the criteria for referees on adult applications can be accepted.

I think that may accept referees who meet the criteria for a child’s parent.

[AmazonianX]

The forms are generic and members previously reported same.
Application can be made successfully without providing such details not applicable to you/applicants.

Thank you for the quick response.
The next bit is finding a professional referee.
I guess it's best wait till school opens in September for the older child and I guess much like the case above it doesn't really apply to a 2 year old who's mostly just stayed at home with mum.

Would it help writing a letter to explain this? Do they even read covering letters uploaded online with the application?

They do accept referees other than those engaged with the child professionally as difficult to get teachers, medical personnel's to disclose required details most times.
And Home Office is well aware of this.

[Anonbha]

Thanks for the clarifications.

My parents have plenty of friends who are doctors and some of whom have known me since I was a wee boy.
I used one of them as my referee under this clause:

Professions that are not accepted
Your countersignatory cannot:

work for HM Passport Office
be a doctor, unless they state that they know you well (for example they’re a good friend) and that they recognise you easily from your photo

Unfortunately for child application it specifically states:

For child applicants at least one of the referees must be a person who has dealt with the child in a professional role such as a teacher, doctor, health visitor or social worker.

which they wouldn't have done, otherwise this would be a simple matter.

So what I guess the steps are email the school of child1 to ask for reference, which they'll most likely decline and I can attach that to satisfy this clause:

has provided documents to show that they have attempted to do so

And then I guess I can just provide my referees as per:

two referees who meet the criteria for referees on adult applications can be accepted.

For my child2 I am just going to provide my referees and leave it at that. There is no way anyone can know a 2 year old for three years!
Child2 stays at home with mum, had one GP visit and one health care visit so far. Any one other than family friends will hardly know the child.

[Ticktack]

They don't enforce the requirements for children. Most folks are reluctant to give their personal data to strangers.

And the HMPO know this.

[Anonbha]

Thank you all for the support so far, its really helped and I have pretty much completed the applications for both children. Just waiting for the school to open so I can get teacher's reference for the first child.

Two questions came to mind I'd like to clear up if that's ok:
1. Does it help to, or should we write a cover letter explaining why we had our children abroad instead of in the UK? (to be honest there wasn't a single reason, and some of those made more sense at the time than now)
In hindsight I'd change a number of things and decisions we made... isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!

2. There is the banner at top of every page in the online MN1 application about eVisa as follows:

Important
We are replacing biometric residence permits (BRPs) with an online immigration status (eVisa). Find out more about eVisas and how this change affects you.

You do not need to apply for a replacement BRP if your BRP expires on 31 December 2024. You will need to register for UKVI account (an eVisa).

If your BRP has been lost, stolen or damaged, you can find information about what to do on GOV.UK.

My wife has sorted her eVisa. Do we need to register my children before applying?
I am kinda hoping I can skip this and go directly to registering them as British citizens if possible.
The message doesn't quite say eVisa is mandatory for MN1 but that banner made me nervous.

[contorted_svy]

No need to justify your personal choices to the HO.
Regarding eVisa best to regsiter your kids, not because it may have an impact on the MN1 application, but because once their physical BRP expires the eVisa will be the way to prove their status in 2025 and their MN1 application could take a but longer than that.

[Anonbha]

My process to getting the citizenship certificate completed in under 3 months.
I am kinda hoping for the same for my children.
But point taken, we shouldn't take unnecessary risks. We are planning a holiday in October half-term, so I will get the eVisa sorted by then if we have not heard back.
I take it we can still register for eVisa while MN1 application is still under review.

[alterhase58]

eVisa and MN1 totally unrelated/separate processes. MN1 is nationality which is not an immigration application.

[contorted_svy]

My process to getting the citizenship certificate completed in under 3 months.
I am kinda hoping for the same for my children.
But point taken, we shouldn't take unnecessary risks. We are planning a holiday in October half-term, so I will get the eVisa sorted by then if we have not heard back.
I take it we can still register for eVisa while MN1 application is still under review.

You have no guarantee that it will take under three months for you or your children. My application was processed in 4 months and some applications take longer than 6 months. Suggest applying for eVisas for everyone involved to still be able to prove their status in the UK. Citizenship applications are not under immigration so now you are still relying on your immigration status.

[Anonbha]

eVisa and MN1 totally unrelated/separate processes. MN1 is nationality which is not an immigration application.

You have no guarantee that it will take under three months for you or your children. My application was processed in 4 months and some applications take longer than 6 months. Suggest applying for eVisas for everyone involved to still be able to prove their status in the UK. Citizenship applications are not under immigration so now you are still relying on your immigration status.

Thank you both for clarifying. For some reason I assumed both were immigration related.
I will ensure my children have eVisa too in the meantime.

Online application checklist only asks for scans of the BRP cards. So I guess/assume I do not need to attach any immigration status proof codes or anything from eVisa.

[contorted_svy]

That is correct. FYI, these two processes sit under entirely different pieces of legislation, that is why it is best to secure the eVisa in parallel to the citizenship applications, as the latter don't extend the immigration status. The eVisa process should be quick and straightforward anyway.

[Anonbha]

Makes sense will ensure eVisa is sorted

Right so going through the document checklist again...

This checklist item is confusing us:

Mr XX’s parent's foreign (non-EU) passport or alternative evidence of residence

Not sure what this is? is this asking for my wife's passport? or my old Indian passport (luckily still have it but not for long)? or some proof of our residence here like I had to provide for my own naturalisation?

And I did not think passport was even considered as evidence of residence?

because just below this they ask for these (which we can provide easily):

If Mr XX told us that their parent is a British citizen then you must provide us evidence of their citizenship. This could include their British passport, a certificate of citizenship or their birth certificate.

If Mr XX told us that their parent is settled in the UK then you must provide us evidence of their settled status. This could include a BRP, a letter from the Home Office, an endorsement in their passport or another document certifying permanent residence.

[Anonbha]

I have been doing some more reading looks like we need to supply some evidence of residence?

I provided last 5 years worth for my own naturalisation along with full scans of my Indian passport. Can I reuse the same for both children?
My India passport is not yet surrendered as I only recently got my British passport.

What I guess confused us is that unlike in my naturalisation application the online registration application for both children did not ask about any absences from the country, dates and reasons for them.
The paper form of the MN1 does have this but I am guessing something triggered the online one not to ask it.

I have last academic year's end of year school report for my 1st child but not much else in form of evidence for my son directly. And our second child just stays at home, so no correspondence in her name.

[alterhase58]

Absence data is not required for children applying for registration under MN1.

[Anonbha]

Absence data is not required for children applying for registration under MN1.

Thanks for confirming.
I am still trying to understand what this checklist item requires:

Mr XX’s (i.e. child's) parent's foreign (non-EU) passport or alternative evidence of residence

Should I submit scans of my Indian passport (which isn't valid as per India law since I have got British citizenship)?
Should I also submit my wife's passport?
And/or should I submit evidence of residence I provided for my own citizenship application? (I submitted my passport scans plus P60 and employment letter where I've been full-time employed for over 10 years now).

[Anonbha]

So the GP refused to provide a reference for both children (as expected)

I got a reply from child1's class teacher. They said they cannot provide a reference as the rules state they need to have know them for 3 years.
Logically speaking no teacher could have known our child for 3 years as they have only been at school for 2 years. The teacher also said if I can show them an email or something from the home office or UKVI stating they can still be a referee they are happy to be one.

I know folks above have said home office doesn't enforce the rules too much for children but I was just trying to "do the right thing".

Should I try to contact the home office or UKVI and ask them for an email I can show teacher or should I simply use the teacher email as proof of me trying to get a reference and then simply provide a non-professional reference?