Refused settlement visa under Paragraph 320(11)

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:55 pm

I'm preparing my appeal myself so was just wondering whats the best way to argue against Paragraph 320(11) in court?
Any help will be appreciated thanks

SUB-ZERO · Post by **SUB-ZERO** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:25 pm

Please explain what happened in detail so that we can help.Why were u issued with a 320(11)?

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:45 pm

I entered UK in 1999 illegaly and gave different name and nationality when applied for asylum. then in 2002 i was deported and in 2003 i entered again illegaly and stayed there illegaly till 2008 when i left UK voluntarily. now they saying i contrived in fustrating immigration laws. i'm married and have a newborn baby to my english wife.

lubzy · Post by **lubzy** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:34 pm

Hi

Can I ask, which country (and City) did you apply in? Also, 320 (11) states refusal will be if an applicant has significantly contrived to frustrate the immigration rules, with examples being an "appaling" immigration history, claiming public funds etc. Did the refusal letter give any further details or specific examples of why they were refusing?

lubzy · Post by **lubzy** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:59 pm

See below guidance (hope this helps):

26.18.1 What does â€œcontrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of the immigration rulesâ€

SUB-ZERO · Post by **SUB-ZERO** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:03 pm

You need a really good lawyer to argue your case,Your immigration history is really bad and if you were to try and argue your case without a lawyer,The HOME OFFICE will rip you to shreds!!

Frontier mole is an expect at this,he might suggest some ideas on how to handle this.

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:24 am

I applied in Albania Tirana. we have the highest rate of refusal here. They refused because i entered twice illegaly and gave false identity. So i was prepared to ignore immigration rules to my personal ends.
Doesnt the Human rights help on this matter? And it say there that : all cases must be considered on their merits taking into account family life in the UK and the level of responsibility for the breach in the case of children. I have a child with my wife and he is british now so dont that help at all either?

thanks

Post by **Frontier Mole** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:17 am

I think you have a mountain to climb to overcome your immigration history.

In the normal circumstances a UK wife and child would go a long way to ensuring your return. However in your case it is not that meaningful.

I guess you came to the UK as a "Kosovo" refugee and claimed asylum. Thousands of Albanians did this, many are still benefiting from their false claims. However some have found out the hard way that false claims have a habit of catching up with you.

In summary of your spouse visa application:

Illegal entry, not even a blink from an ECO;
A failed asylum claim, nothing new or exciting there;
Use of a false name, naughty but not a spouse visa killer on a voluntary return home in the concession period;
Return after removal - this is a hang, draw and quarter offence .... end of.

It is like the ultimate two finger salute to the immigration system. "You removed me, so what! I came back again!". You can see why the significantly contrived was thrown at you.

The fact that you re-entered the UK illegally after you were removed will almost certainly kill off any possibility of a return to the UK. There is just no defence to that action. Anything in the way of your relationship and private life on your second entry is fairly worthless. You knew the consequences from your previous actions and therefore can not use the "I did not understand the system or I was in fear for my life" excuses.
Your return was a calculated event and can not be rewarded in the eyes of UKBA. The relationship and child were all achieved in a period where you knew your status to be illegal.

In short neither you nor your wife could depend on your continued stay in the UK while illegal. Even on return to Albania it would be unreasonable to think your previous immigration history would be ignored.

I think you will be very very lucky if you achieve any kind of success with your appeal. At best Human Rights discretionary leave recommendation. That could be a one year grant of leave which will not really take you any further forward as you would be expected to leave at the end of the year. In effect sort out your life in the UK and prepare to return to Albania with your family. There is no reason why your wife and child can not live with you in Albania. Not as good a life as the UK but that is not a point of consideration.

Out of interest did you declare all the facts in regards your immigration history on the spouse visa?

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:10 am

I did declare absolutely everything and then later i found out that that would have found out anyway so good job i did.

"There is no reason why your wife and child can not live with you in Albania. Not as good a life as the UK but that is not a point of consideration."

I dont see why 2 UK citizens have to immigrate just because of this. Forget about my Human Rights but dont they have any rights to live a family life where they would want to? Why do them have to suffer lack of health service and a poor life when they have the right to live better in UK? As for myself im not really keen on UK anymore but hows my wife suppose to find work in any other country when she dont speak the language?

The ECO initially gave me refusal under 320(7b) but as i on my appeal ground said that that dont aply to spousal visa they changed it to (11).
I only came back as i wanted a normal life for me and my family in UK.
In my 6 years in UK since my last return i had a good stay so i wasnt really in a need for a visa lol
"The relationship and child were all achieved in a period where you knew your status to be illegal" So being illegal we dont have any rights to have a life like everyone else? Not allowed to have families and children?

blessedlady89 · Post by **blessedlady89** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:13 am

Iam also refused on Paragraph 320(11). I have met all the rules. I have been honest with my application. I didn't use false identity when I entered UK many years ago.
I didn't explain much of my pevious immigration history in writing. But it was obvious in my application every details of it.

I guess the ECO is giving me hard time. The price I have to pay. I have a child who is a UK national and already in school and a spouse who has an ILR.

My in country application was refused. I didn't appeal but instead contacted my MP and waited for the result. I thought everything would be alright.

My new MP whom I approach is useless, he even advise me not to go home instead to reopen the case

But since I already had my ticket, I ignore him. Left UK voluntarily

My child wanted t go back toLOndon and miss his dad so much. He even go in one corner and cry. I feel sorry because of being me having no status in the UK will make our family break up.

Thanks to the technology, we see each other and chat and we can talk to him. Very stressful time and experience.

We appealed on the decision, but it will take a while maybe a year . I am still waiting for the ECO to reconsider the decision.

They can use discretion in this case.
Where is the spirit of concession?

No date yet of the appeal and I am still hoping that everything would turn out positve.

enobano wrote:I did declare absolutely everything and then later i found out that that would have found out anyway so good job i did.

"There is no reason why your wife and child can not live with you in Albania. Not as good a life as the UK but that is not a point of consideration."

I dont see why 2 UK citizens have to immigrate just because of this. Forget about my Human Rights but dont they have any rights to live a family life where they would want to? Why do them have to suffer lack of health service and a poor life when they have the right to live better in UK? As for myself im not really keen on UK anymore but hows my wife suppose to find work in any other country when she dont speak the language?

The ECO initially gave me refusal under 320(7b) but as i on my appeal ground said that that dont aply to spousal visa they changed it to (11).
I only came back as i wanted a normal life for me and my family in UK.
In my 6 years in UK since my last return i had a good stay so i wasnt really in a need for a visa lol
"The relationship and child were all achieved in a period where you knew your status to be illegal" So being illegal we dont have any rights to have a life like everyone else? Not allowed to have families and children?

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:47 am

I wouldnt expect anything good from ECOs. they just refusing everyone and wait and see whos going to appeal and who's getting their appeal allowed.
If you didnt do anything wrong appart from illegal entry then how come you got refused under (11)?

blessedlady89 · Post by **blessedlady89** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:50 pm

I OVERSTAYED, using my true name not ILLEGAL ENTRANT. That's why their decision is Unlawful. I wish I could give you an answer. The only reason is of me being an overstayer.

enobano wrote:I wouldnt expect anything good from ECOs. they just refusing everyone and wait and see whos going to appeal and who's getting their appeal allowed.
If you didnt do anything wrong appart from illegal entry then how come you got refused under (11)?

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:04 pm

my friend overstayed for 5 years and he just got his visa so you'll get yours too probably

blessedlady89 · Post by **blessedlady89** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:45 pm

Did your friend refused visa as well before he was granted?
I keep my fingers cross that I will received it soon.
As my child really misses his father.

.

enobano wrote:my friend overstayed for 5 years and he just got his visa so you'll get yours too probably

blessedlady89 · Post by **blessedlady89** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:48 pm

You must be represented by a lawyer or immigration adviser. Because you have to fight really hard to win your case.

enobano wrote:my friend overstayed for 5 years and he just got his visa so you'll get yours too probably

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:49 pm

no he got it straight away lol they overlooked his overstay and didnt even mentioned it on interview. Another friend got it refused for overstaying and when he went in appeal a month ago they told him there and then you've won. he didnt have to wait for his determination.

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:52 pm

blessedlady89 wrote:You must be represented by a lawyer or immigration adviser. Because you have to fight really hard to win your case.

yeah i just got 1 sorted. i think . my money run out while waiting for the appeal then my baby was due then he was few weeks late and it all came at the worse time . so been hard time

blessedlady89 · Post by **blessedlady89** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:06 am

I think it all depend on the ECO who will handle the case. I consider myself unlucky. I know a friend who got a visa, 2 months of waiting. Overstayed as well

Yeah, I can feel how stressful it is . considering the financial aspect aspect as well,

Hope everything goes well with you.

enobano wrote:
blessedlady89 wrote:You must be represented by a lawyer or immigration adviser. Because you have to fight really hard to win your case.

yeah i just got 1 sorted. i think . my money run out while waiting for the appeal then my baby was due then he was few weeks late and it all came at the worse time . so been hard time

Post by **Frontier Mole** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:04 am

enobano wrote: "There is no reason why your wife and child can not live with you in Albania. Not as good a life as the UK but that is not a point of consideration."

I dont see why 2 UK citizens have to immigrate just because of this. Forget about my Human Rights but dont they have any rights to live a family life where they would want to? Why do them have to suffer lack of health service and a poor life when they have the right to live better in UK? As for myself im not really keen on UK anymore but hows my wife suppose to find work in any other country when she dont speak the language?

"The relationship and child were all achieved in a period where you knew your status to be illegal" So being illegal we dont have any rights to have a life like everyone else? Not allowed to have families and children?

Both statements above are a natural response; however the answers are as simple.
Is the UK not allowed to prevent illegal migrants and false asylum claimants from remaining in the UK?
Is the UK not allowed to protect our country from those that practice illegal acts and deception?

The simple answer is the UK is reasonably allowed to do these things.

Your wife and child can move to Albania if they want to carry on their family life with you. It is a balance between their rights and that of the country as a whole. The relationship and subsequent birth of the child were all achieved while you had no status and had entered illegally after being removed. Your wife entered into that relationship and had your child knowing you had no status and that gaining status was not a simple matter given your immigration history. If family life is as important as you claim then moving to Albania would not be an insurmountable obstacle to her and is therefore a reasonable action.

mirnat · Post by **mirnat** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:08 am

Hi there Enobano

I've been reading the thread to your post and I sympathise with u, I hope your appeal works out!

My husband is Albanian and I'm British. He applied in Tirana in December 2006 and got give his 2 year spouse visa in March 2007 (we're just about next month ready to apply for his ILR). It seems like things have gotten a lot tougher since he applied as he initially applied for assylum as a Kosovan refugee to enter the UK and although he got refused assylum he did not return but overstayed illegally in the UK for about 5 years until he was caught when the police stopped my car one day and he was removed back to Albania in October 2006. From your experience it seems that he would if applying in Tirana now definitely not get the spouse visa, especially given the fact that unlike u, he was caught and returned to Albania and did not go back voluntarily! Sorry, I didn't really answer your initial question but I wish u all the luck in the world with your appeal!

enobano · Post by **enobano** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:45 am

Thank you very much

my case is worse as i got deported then came back to uk illegaly again :S
so its called contriving in frustrating Immigration laws.

take care eno

blessedlady89 · Post by **blessedlady89** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:07 am

Mirnat,

You're husband was lucky though, Iwas not caught. When they refused my in country application, they mention that I was served with IS151A, but I ever received this.

I was never removed, I left the UK voluntarily.

I have nothing against Albanians but they are really good in deception. Sorry, knew several of them.

mirnat wrote:Hi there Enobano

I've been reading the thread to your post and I sympathise with u, I hope your appeal works out!

My husband is Albanian and I'm British. He applied in Tirana in December 2006 and got give his 2 year spouse visa in March 2007 (we're just about next month ready to apply for his ILR). It seems like things have gotten a lot tougher since he applied as he initially applied for assylum as a Kosovan refugee to enter the UK and although he got refused assylum he did not return but overstayed illegally in the UK for about 5 years until he was caught when the police stopped my car one day and he was removed back to Albania in October 2006. From your experience it seems that he would if applying in Tirana now definitely not get the spouse visa, especially given the fact that unlike u, he was caught and returned to Albania and did not go back voluntarily! Sorry, I didn't really answer your initial question but I wish u all the luck in the world with your appeal!

mirnat · Post by **mirnat** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:31 am

Eno well I guess that does make things worse. My husband never got removed back to Albania previously and then returned to the UK. He only got removed once, the time before we got married so I don't know if that made them take a slightly more lenient approach although these days I think they're strict on everyone who overstays/falsely claims to be someone else (he applied for assylum when entering the UK with a false name and date of birth as I guess some Albanians did back then!). I wouldn't like him to be applying for a spouse visa now in Tirana! That said, we've still got the hurdle of ILR to get thru although he's done everything above board now in the UK - using his correct name on bank statements, with his employer, NI etc.

Blessedlady - yes I guess he was one of the lucky ones although we were at the time wondering if he was gonna get it as his brother applied and got his visa six weeks after being returned to Albania (him and his brother were both in my car when the police stopped it so they both got returned at the same time!) but yet my husband had to wait around 4 months to hear back about his visa. He thought the delay meant that he wouldn't get it and was going stir crazy over there in Albania, as was I being without him all that time in the UK. He did meet someone though who returned to Albania voluntarily to get married to a British Citizen and make himself legal in the UK and he had been waiting 9 months to get an answer on his spouse visa - he got his the same day my husband went to the British Embassy in Tirana to pick up his! I don't know, I guess luck may come into it a little bit but also how well prepared all your documentation is and also maybe the mood of the ECO on the day of the decision lol!

Good luck with your cases anyway!

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Refused settlement visa under Paragraph 320(11)

Refused settlement visa under Paragraph 320(11)

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