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EEA Visa for Daughter

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stevec
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EEA Visa for Daughter

Post by stevec » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:38 pm

Hi guys what a great forum. Been reading through the various posts but cant seem to find the answers that im looking for.

My two problems are:

My wife applied for a settlement visa for her daughter from the Philippines ( shes 18 in July ) it got refused on the grounds that she did not maintain sole responsilbity.

My wife originates from the Philippines but gained naturalisation 14 years ago through marriage. She left her daughter in the philippines under the care of her fathers mother, due to domestic violence from her then partner. Her daughter was born illegitimate as stated on the birth certificate.

My wife had restrictions placed on her by ex partner in terms of no contact situation with the child. The child did not have any knowledge or even contact with her mother from the age of 3 until she was 15 years old.
Contact was not allowed nor made for this period of time due to threats towards my wife etc.

My wife left to work in Hong Kong when the child was three and has maintained regular and substancial remittences since then until present, paying for schooling, gifts , clothing etc.

The ECO has stated that he does not think that my wife has sole responsibilty for the child. Is he right in assuming this, and do we have a justifiable case at appeal court, due to the laws on illegitimate children the Mother has sole parental responsibility

In English law, under s3(1) Children Act 1989,

Parental Responsibility "...means all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority, which by law a parent of a child has in relation to the child and his property". Under s2(1), both the child's father and mother have Parental Responsibility for the child if they are married to each other at the time of the birth. Under s2(2), where the child's mother and father are not married to each other at the time of the birth, the general rule is that the mother has sole Parental Responsibility for the child unless the child is freed for adoption or is the subject of an Adoption Order in favour of another person.

The other question is during the interview by the ECO, the childs step mother was interviewed and questioned Is this a breach of confidentiallity and privacy law?

A copy of the interview Q&A were not given to the applicant after the interview with the NOD.

The Notice of decision states in paragraph one, ‘That it has not been necessary to interview you in order to reach a decision’ : An interview was infact carried out, does this indicated that the application was not carried out in accordance with the rules and withinin the guidelines?

Second question

The EEA visa , would it be easier to resubmit an application for this classification to get my wifes child to the UK? and is the EEA visa similar to a settlement visa where there are no restrictions in how long you can stay in the UK, exit and entry free ( for example holidays to EU etc) and does it give the child the chance to apply for ILR no restriction then apply for natuaralisation?

Can i apply for an different classification of visa say the EEA while i have the settlement visa in the appeal process, and can i submit the EEA visa application to ANY overseas mission or does it have to be the British Embassy in Manila( where the applicant lives). They have her biometrics on file there.

I would ask if any one could put me in the right direction as its taken two years to apply for the visa ensuring that the paper work is in force etc, and the clock is ticking down.


Thank you for your help in advance..... :D

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Post by vinny » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:53 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

stevec
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Thanks

Post by stevec » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:29 pm

Thanks for the reply we'll look through it to see if we can make sense of it.

Cheers :D

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Post by John » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:39 pm

stevec, dealing with your second question about EEA Family Permit, has your wife been exercising EU Treaty Rights in another EU or EEA country? If yes, please give details.

If no, then there is no possibility of your wife, a British Citizen, getting an EEA Family Permit for her daughter.

As regards "sole responsibility" you might like to have a read through these instructions to ECOs dealing with child settlement visa applications.
John

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Dont understand the wording

Post by stevec » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:55 pm

John wrote:stevec, dealing with your second question about EEA Family Permit, has your wife been exercising EU Treaty Rights in another EU or EEA country? If yes, please give details.

If no, then there is no possibility of your wife, a British Citizen, getting an EEA Family Permit for her daughter.

As regards "sole responsibility" you might like to have a read through these instructions to ECOs dealing with child settlement visa applications.
Sorry but i dont quite understand the concept of the question..Family Permit, has your wife been exercising EU Treaty Rights in another EU or EEA country?

My wife and i are both British does this make a difference?, and both reside in the UK. What do you mean about excercising EU treaty rights in another country? :?: :?: :?:

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Post by John » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:30 pm

My wife and i are both British does this make a difference?
Indeed it does! It means that you and your wife living in the UK are not exercising EU Treaty Rights. You are both here because you are British Citizens.
What do you mean about excercising EU treaty rights in another country?
If the two of you had lived in say France etc etc you would be exercising EU Treaty Rights, the right to live and work in another EU country. Indeed another EEA country, a slightly wider definition. But it sounds like you have not done that, and are not thinking of doing that, so getting your step-daughter an EEA Family Permit is a total non-starter.
John

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I see

Post by stevec » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:38 pm

John wrote:
My wife and i are both British does this make a difference?
Indeed it does! It means that you and your wife living in the UK are not exercising EU Treaty Rights. You are both here because you are British Citizens.
What do you mean about excercising EU treaty rights in another country?
If the two of you had lived in say France etc etc you would be exercising EU Treaty Rights, the right to live and work in another EU country. Indeed another EEA country, a slightly wider definition. But it sounds like you have not done that, and are not thinking of doing that, so getting your step-daughter an EEA Family Permit is a total non-starter.

Ah now i get it (i think) so to apply for my step daughter whos from the Philippines under the EEA Family permit then we must live in a member country of the EEA but not the UK to enable her to get the visa this way. so really unless we move to France then we've got now way to apply for this form of visa then? and we'll have to undergo the appeal process of the settlement visa

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Post by John » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:03 pm

No it is not even as simple as that. The two of you would need to move to France, or any one of the other EEA countries, AND at least one of you would need to become economically active there, by being employed or self-employed.

Having got that far you would attempt to get your step-daughter the appropriate "visa" to enable her to join you in that country. I would like to say that you would apply to the French etc embassy for an EEA Family Permit, but that is a UK invention, and other countries will have their own terminology.

So if that is issued all of you are in France, or wherever. The next stage would be to use the Surinder Singh rule, to get your step-daughter an EEA Family Permit, issued at the British Embassy in France etc..

If you investigate the Surinder Singh rule you will see that it is important that the EEA citizen in economically active in the other EEA country. It is no good exercising Treaty Rights as say a Student, or as a self-sufficient person .... Surinder Singh route not available if that is done.

The EEA? Many countries! As listed on this website. So in mentioning France I do in fact mean any EEA country, apart from the UK of course.
John

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Post by Frontier Mole » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Sorry to be blunt, unless you use the EEA route you have not got any chance of getting the daughter here under a UK settlement visa. The immigration rules are against you and there is no hope of overcoming the circumstances you now find yourself in.

The interview with the step mother would prove to the ECO who actually has control over the daughter, it would have also detailed the history of who looked after her. It was NOT your wife's relatives.

For all intents and purposes she has been looked after by her father and her father’s relatives. The money element from your wife is these circumstances matters very little as it will be obvious who made the decisions in the child’s life and who played the greater part in her up bringing. Your wife can not demonstrate sole responsibility in these circumstances.
An appeal will not succeed under the immigration rules.

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EEA

Post by stevec » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:32 pm

Thanks John etc for the information.

Well its worth a try i suppose its a way to get around the red tape.

I dont suppose if any one can tell me if i'll be wasting my time with the appeal, quoting the fact the child is illegitimate as

In English law, under s3(1) Children Act 1989, Parental Responsibility "...means all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority, which by law a parent of a child has in relation to the child and his property". Under s2(1), both the child's father and mother have Parental Responsibility for the child if they are married to each other at the time of the birth. Under s2(2), where the child's mother and father are not married to each other at the time of the birth, the general rule is that the mother has sole Parental Responsibility for the child unless the child is freed for adoption or is the subject of an Adoption Order in favour of another person.

or would i have any success on quoting the relevant rules / laws for example

Section 1. Article 176 of Executive Order No. 209, otherwise known as the Family Code of the Philippines, is hereby amended to read as follows:

"Article 176. Illegitimate children shall use the surname and shall be under the parental authority of their mother, and shall be entitled to support in conformity with this Code. However, illegitimate children may use the surname of their father if their filiation has been expressly recognized by the father through the record of birth appearing in the civil register, or when an admission in a public document or private handwritten instrument is made by the father. Provided, the father has the right to institute an action before the regular courts to prove non-filiation during his lifetime. The legitime of each illegitimate child shall consist of one-half of the legitime of a legitimate child."

Would i be able to quote various laws etc

UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) Article 2,3,5,12,18
The Race Relations Act 1976 (RRA) Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000 (RRA 2000)
The Children Act 1989. Welfare PrincipleEuropean Court of Human Rights Act 1998 Article 8.(1)
European Court of Human Rights Act 1998 Article 8.(2)
European Court of Human Rights Act 1998 Article 7
European Court of Human Rights Act 1998 Domestic Breach
The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) Article 14
Article 24 Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union
Convention on the Rights of the Child OHCHR Article 2,3,5,6,7,9,12,16,20,27,


or is it a case of chomping at the bit and looking for a reason.


I suppose moving to one of the eea countries wouldnt be an issue for us as to be quite honest the UK is going down hill at the moment but we need to try and get my wifes daughter with us some how.

Sorry to keep pressing this issue but the rules are so complex and hard for me to understand in simple terms.


Thanks :D

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Post by Frontier Mole » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:17 pm

You are wasting your time with the appeal. Is that clear enough for you?

You are working with immigration law not the great mass of all the other stuff you have quoted.

As for ECHR & the UK - you fail on that as well. There is no family life at present.

Going for an EEA family permit - You will struggle to get her through as an EEA family member even on HR as again there is no family life. How can Art 8 be engaged when she has never lived with your wife in the same household?? It will depend very much on the individual view each EEA country has to family member rules.

If you want an easier route try student visa to UK then at least you have a chance without the need to move or change jobs etc.

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Post by John » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:56 pm

I dont suppose if any one can tell me if i'll be wasting my time with the appeal ......
You didn't seem to believe Frontier Mole when he first told you that an appeal would be futile. Hopefully you believe him now he has told you a second time.

I totally agree with Frontier Mole .... pursuing an appeal would be a waste of time, and indeed a waste of money, given you would definitely need professional help at the appeal hearing.

Your best hope is moving to another EEA country, and becoming economically active there. But what a hassle!
John

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i tend to understand now

Post by stevec » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:54 pm

OK guys thanks for the help in relation to the above posts.

Frontier Mole Thanks for your info, i suppose i live in hope. Then again i suppose unless you know the immigration law back to front , you could be wrong on certain aspects. But we're hear to listen and take advice

John thanks for your help: we'll look at the possibilities of a student visa or a move to eea cetified country.

Just thought mole youd like to read this about sole responsibility, this i think has gone totally against what you said:


Application for entry - appellants seeking entry as children of UK resident having 'sole responsibility' for upbringing - mother having 'sole responsibility' for short time - appellants eligible for entry
Nmaju and Others v Immigration Officer: CA (Aldous, Schiemann and Thorpe LJJ): 31 July 2000

The appellants applied for entry clearance in order to join their mother for the purposes of settlement. The immigration entry officer refused their application on the ground that the appellants' mother did not have 'sole responsibility for [their] upbringing' for the purposes of para 297(i)(e) of the Statement of Changes Immigration Rules (HC 395).

The appellants' appeal to the adjudicator was dismissed.

On a subsequent appeal, the Immigration Appeal Tribunal found that the mother had had sole responsibility for the appellants' upbringing for a period of two months but that that was insufficient for her to fall within the group entitled to the benefit of para 297(i)(e).

The appellants appealed.
Sibghat Kadri QC and Emeka Pipi (instructed by Okoye & Co) for the appellants; Rabinder Singh (instructed by the Treasury Solicitor) for the Secretary of State for the Home Department.

Held, allowing the appeal, that the Immigration Appeal Tribunal had imposed a time condition to which there was no reference in para 297(i)(e); that although the period of time for which the sponsor had had responsibility for the children's upbringing was a relevant factor it could not be conclusive; and that, accordingly, having concluded that the mother had had sole responsibility for the upbringing of the appellants it was not at liberty to find that they did not qualify for entry.


Theres always the idea to get her here by other means and claim PA as half of the others have done. Doesnt seem fair really, but then again thats the UK for you.

Cheers

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Post by joe777 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:14 pm

frontier mole does know immigration law, better than most on here,

i don't think your wife has sole responsibility thou..

What does 'sole responsibility' mean?
This is one of the two alternative tests that have to met if one of the child's parents is alive and outside the
UK.The UK-based parent must show sole responsibility for the child's upbringing at the time of the
immigration application.The rule is not interpreted literally as it would be impossible to show sole
responsibility in a strict sense if anyone else was helping to care for the child.The sponsoring parent must
instead show that he or she has responsibility for the major decisions in the child's life and, even though apart
from the child, is highly involved in the child's upbringing, for example through regular contact with the child's
carer (often the child's grandparent or grandparents or a family friend). Equally it can be important to show
that the carer defers to the UK-based parent and does not exercise major responsibility for the child's
upbringing, other than day to day care.
Evidence of financial support is important but not necessarily decisive. Knowledge of the child's life, schooling
and upbringing is also important, as it provides evidence of frequent contact with the child and the carer, for
example by telephone and/or correspondence.


from http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:Bcy ... cd=1&gl=uk

i was worried about sole responsibility when i brought my stepson over from the phils just b4 he turned 18, but my wife had looked after him for most of his life, but it was ok in the end he got ilr within 6 months of being here :D

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Post by Frontier Mole » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:24 am

I can rely on other cases which support my point. One case out of many on the same point in law does not make your case viable. Each case has to meet the ACTUAL specific details of a quoted case in order for it to be relevant. It is not good enough to pick a case and state this suits my point of view.

The interview with the step mother will surely blow anything you have or want to rely on out of the water. I bet it states something completely contrary to your wife's point of view. However it carries far more weight than what your wife states. Why?
Because your wife has not solely looked after the child, has not had the sole responsibility for the child, did not solely home or school the child, did not solely make decisions that affected the child’s up bringing and worst of all the father and his relatives have done all of the above.

Where has your wife demonstrated sole responsibility? If it is argued by the father that he or his relatives have maintained and brought up the child and STILL do then the sole responsibility argument is destroyed. The immigration court will not side with the absent parent. If the sole responsibility point is contended it will require a court decision from the country of origin to resolve the point. Does your wife have that court document? I suggest not and is very unlikely to achieve it in the timescale before the daughter turns 18.

This is not about your wife’s view on the matter but the views of everyone. Even if the intention of the father is to deprive you of access to your daughter and prevent her from coming to the UK as a dependent and nothing else that is tough. The feud carries on; there is no hope of using immigration law to extricate her daughter from the current position.

I have every sympathy with your case but you came on the forum for advice. You quoted much law, nearly all of it irrelevant, perhaps now you understand the important point - it is immigration law that the daughter has to meet to come to the UK.

If you are so sure of your points in law engage a representative and go to appeal. You have nothing to lose but time and money. If you win, well done, if you lose I have a t-shirt ready.

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i Give UP

Post by stevec » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:32 pm

Fair comment and thanks for the information. i suppose i'll just have to take it through AIT then, money is irrelevant in this situation, ive got plenty of it.

Still no one has answered the question or had an argument regarding the illegitimite child question? maybe no one knows the answer as to what that could result in.

Bit harsh dont you think

This is not about your wife’s view on the matter but the views of everyone. Even if the intention of the father is to deprive you of access to your daughter and prevent her from coming to the UK as a dependent and nothing else that is tough.

The Father is all for it releasing whatever duty of care he had towards the child , she dont even live with him, and he works in Saudi Arabia, its the Step Mother thats put the case at risk by saying the opposite of what was the true facts.

I have every sympathy with your case but you came on the forum for advice. You quoted much law, nearly all of it irrelevant, perhaps now you understand the important point - it is immigration law that the daughter has to meet to come to the UK.

Might be irrellevant but at least ive tried to do my homework.

If you are so sure of your points in law engage a representative and go to appeal. You have nothing to lose but time and money. If you win, well done, if you lose I have a t-shirt ready.

Im not sure of the full extent of the law, thats why ive asked various questions on the forum, hey no ones perfect, or an expert. Theres no such thing as an expert in a particular field, as everyday is a learning circle.So can we be civil about this please.

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Post by Frontier Mole » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:14 pm

Not harsh at all. I have only put to you a version of events that is in opposition to your position. I think you will find you have a much harder time in court from the PO than I have put to you.

Perhaps consider the question you have asked, "is the appeal futile", you received more than one answer to the question. From the information supplied it is clear to those that replied your chances of success are at best very minimal. You are entitled to carry on in the opposite direction but do not continue to question the advice based on the perception that you have of "experts". No one claims to be an expert on the forum.

Why bother engaging in the forum in the first place? If money is not an object go to Slaughter & May and pay the going rate. A few thousand pounds to hear what you want to hear is always good for the partners’ end of year payout. Then engage a high cost barrister for the appeal and hope your money gets you somewhere. Certainly don't bleat on the forum that you are not getting back what you want to hear.

The facts as they are, there is an adverse immigration decision and a statement from the step mother that obviously does not match up with the position maintained by your wife. The AIT does not do family law and it certainly does not resolve contested care cases. So how do you overcome the immigration position? Certainly not be engaging the AIT in a family law matter!

If the position is as you say it is why did your wife not legally adopt her own daughter and make life so much easier? Nothing would have been contended and your wife would have a straight route to settlement in the UK for her daughter.

I asked a question - what has your wife done to unequivocally demonstrate sole responsibility? You have not provided an answer, why is that?

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Post by joe777 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:43 pm

Still no one has answered the question or had an argument regarding the illegitimite child question? maybe no one knows the answer as to what that could result in.

i'm no expert but if the father was not named on the birth cert and the child and mother had lived together it would be alot easier, as no consent from the father would be needed.

but in your case the mother hardly if at all had lived with the child, she doesn't have a court order giving custody?, i think under phils law the mother is automatically given custody of a child til the child is 7yrs old. you dont have a letter of support from the father stating its ok for her to live with her mother.. im' sure her daughter wolud get called for an interview, as my stepson did, where they asked about his father, and the truth would come out its her gran whos been looking after her.

in my case my stepsons father was not mentioned on his birth cert, but he had nearly always lived with his mom, so getting him a settlement visa should have been straight forward, but we got his father who lives in the USA to write a letter of support stating it was ok for him to move to the uk, we had evidence of money transfers to his aunt to show we were supporting him, but he was stilled asked to attend an interview where they asked him about his father, when was the last time he saw him etc, who did he live with now etc.. he got his visa within 4wks :lol: . last thing the embassy wants is to be piggy in the middle btw 2 parents over a child

but your case is not so simple, maybe a student visa is the only way if you have the money.. good luck thou :D

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Illegitimate

Post by stevec » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:31 pm

Joe 777 and others

Right to put this into context firstly. The Child was born without the parents being married although there is a big stigma associated with this in PHP, so the birth certificate had the Fathers name put on to it although not married!

The BC then went to the high courts in PHP to have it annotated and the wording changed from legitimate to illegitimate that was done NO PROBLEM.

The BC now states that the child is illegitimate and as mentioned before although ( as pointed out by MOLE this is not immigration law but Family Law) under PHP law it clearly states in Black and White, that cannot be argued that

Section 1. Article 176 of Executive Order No. 209, otherwise known as the Family Code of the Philippines, is hereby amended to read as follows:

"Article 176. Illegitimate children shall use the surname and shall be under the parental authority of their mother, and shall be entitled to support in conformity with this Code. However, illegitimate children may use the surname of their father if their filiation has been expressly recognized by the father through the record of birth appearing in the civil register, or when an admission in a public document or private handwritten instrument is made by the father. Provided, the father has the right to institute an action before the regular courts to prove non-filiation during his lifetime. The legitime of each illegitimate child shall consist of one-half of the legitime of a legitimate child."

This cannot be disputed!!!!

My wife does not need a court order to have custody of her daughter as per the above law, as custody is automatic to the MOTHER.

We have a letter stating that the Father has no parental authority ,and saying that he wishes his daughter to go to the UK as he can no longer support her.

The child lives with her Grandparents the Fathers and has done since the age of 6yrs old, as the Father has been working out of PHP. The Father see's her every two or three years. You could argue the fact that he has only lived with her for the same amount of time as her MOther 3 Years.

Returning to PHP was not possible for my wife as she was under threat from the ex partner if she returned or even attempted to remove her daughter to another country. Physical, verbal and mental abuse was the reason why she left PHP to work in Hong Kong with her resident parents.

She continualy provided for her and last saw her when she was three years old. From that age ALL contact from her Mother was not allowed, and she was kept secret from her Daughter up until 2006 when she made contact requesting to come to the UK. All major decision have been made through her Grandmother, by telephoning etc.

Ive just received a copy via email from the PHP embassy a copy of her Q & A, as she was not given it with the appeal papers. But got it after pestering them for it. Most of the Q & A's are inacurate and have been worded to suit the ECO, and incorrect

22. Does your father give you money? No
23. But it states in the VAF that your father gives you money? He gives me money sometimes. He just gives me money not that often.

THIS IS NOT INDICATED ON THE VAF FORM WHICH I HAVE A COPY OF , so it's a misleading and incorrect question with its main intent is to trick a child.

The ECO is not sure on how to handle the decision

ECO case notes:
**/**/08 **:**:** [ ***** ECO ] T4 required - approved by **. A/n has stated on VAF that she is fin supported by father and mother. She lives with grandparents but has stated that she also sees her father every two years (possibly as much as mother). Now she states that father no longer in a position to support her morally or financially - BUT this is beacuse he is going to work out of PHP. Arguably therefore he is in a position to provide better for her financially if he is in gainful emp. Need T4 to ascertain sole resp and whether any factors that would make her exclusion undesirable.
Other strange factor is that her BC has been amended to read illigitamate - but she has still listed her biological father on VAF so why taking his name of BC. Incidentally the copy NSO has come back with has not been annotated and as filed in 2007 should have reached NSO by now.

Obviously he does not know the defination of illegitimate.

As far as the student visa route not sure if that'll work due to the time limit that has been put on the validity of stay 2 years?, and any one know if i can submit another application while an appeal is pending?

I could go on all day and night listing the various reason for and against why she should be allowed to come to the UK, but i wont obviously some members on this forum seem to think that they are the only informative source here. YES i do appreciate advice but there has to be a balance of probablities in everything you read.

what has your wife done to unequivocally demonstrate sole responsibility? You have not provided an answer, why is that?

Apart from supporting her financially, weekly contact over the past two years, telephone text and web cam since being allowed along with direction on different issues, theres not much more than that really


The bottom line is she didnt know she had a mother for 14 years and when she found out she wants to be reunited , and we're getting penalized for something that was not our doing or fault.

Its the system thats complety at faulter here, not us.[/u]

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Post by John » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:41 pm

My wife does not need a court order to have custody of her daughter as per the above law, as custody is automatic to the MOTHER.
So she has sole custody. OK! But does she have sole responsibility? That is what the British Embassy are looking for!
John

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Sole responsibility

Post by stevec » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:48 am

I suppose you could say yes

Is it not the same defination?

Looking through the Q & A last night the dates were given to the ECO when the child spent time with her Mother then with her Father.

Mother - Birth - 3 year old (3 years upbringing)
Father - 3yr old to 5 year old (2 years upbringing)

Then the child at 5 went to live with her Paternal grandparents (sorry thought it was six) Maternal Grandmother lives in Hong Kong.

As said below its arguable who has S.R. and i understand in what your saying its gonna be hard to prove otherwise in my wifes favor, but saying as the father is out of the country, does not send remittances to her where as we do, she doesnt live with her step mother, But the father contacts her by text and telephone as we do. He also left her at an early age in the day to day care of the G.Parents

Surely this does not give the father sole responsibility, so who does it lie with?

I would have automatically have said the Mother, but thats my opinion which im gonna have to argue and prove to the PO, when the time arises.

Apart from that not much more to add


Thanks John

John
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Post by John » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:42 am

Surely this does not give the father sole responsibility, so who does it lie with?
Your problem is that the ECO does not need to go that far into the situation. He/she merely needs to see if the sponsor has SR, and has concluded they do not. That view is certainly not unreasonable, and it is certainly defendable at any appeal hearing .... hence your problem.
John

joe777
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Post by joe777 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:28 pm

i'm sure they will argue her gran has sole responsibilty since she has looked after her from 6yrs old til she was nearly 18yrs old ?

but good luck with her visa app.

stevec
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Thanks

Post by stevec » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:37 pm

Ok guys gonna call it time on this one..

Got the accpeptance letter from the AIT today, saying that its going through the appeal system, last week was questionable as it had to go to a duty judge to see if we had a case for appeal, it looks like we do otherwise they would have not taken it through the appeal process.

We only hope that the refusal gets overturned in PHP once they get the grounds of appeal, thus eliminating the need for full 6-8 month waiting for the tribunal hearing.

Thanks to all for the information, its been an eye opener, and we have learnt alot on the forum based on other people experiances and troubles.

We'll keep you informed as to the outcome..


:D or maybe :(

stevec
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA in your FACE Matey

Post by stevec » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:47 pm

Who was it that said THE STUFF BELOW 'YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME' Well just thought id do a follow up and let you know we won the appeal , WITHOUT going to any additional expense of hiring ANYONE we did it all by our self, just goes to show make your own judgement up and dont listen to people who dont know what the heck there talking about.

D.I.Y. DO IT YOURSELF dont rely on others to help cos you aint gonna get it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



Frontier Mole wrote:You are wasting your time with the appeal. Is that clear enough for you?

You are working with immigration law not the great mass of all the other stuff you have quoted.

As for ECHR & the UK - you fail on that as well. There is no family life at present.

Going for an EEA family permit - You will struggle to get her through as an EEA family member even on HR as again there is no family life. How can Art 8 be engaged when she has never lived with your wife in the same household?? It will depend very much on the individual view each EEA country has to family member rules.

If you want an easier route try student visa to UK then at least you have a chance without the need to move or change jobs etc.

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