Experiences of NL visit without Schengen visa but with EEA2

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:29 pm

Cheers for the reassurance Isceon!

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:14 am

bdb303 wrote:Was a disappointment travelling to the Netherlands without the Schengen visa for my wife (she has an EEA2 permit).

It seemed the border guards were not aware that the Netherlands had implemented Directive 2004/38/EC in May 2008. We were taken away and then after a 10 minute discussion, were finally able to enter the country. Fortunately I had a printout from the Dutch embassy stating that the Schengen visa was no longer needed, but still a bit disappointing that the border guards needed to have their memory refreshed by me.

I think the border guards may have been affected by the following:
1) I am Dutch citizen and they know that immigration regulations are stricter for me than for EU citizens. One guard didn't seem to know that I now qualify as EU citizen because I am exercising my treaty rights in the UK.
2)My wife had always previously entered NL with a Schengen visa and they could see that in her passport = even as recently as the beginning of May when the Dutch embassy in London was still willing to give a Schengen visa.
3) Our marriage certificate was from the Philippines, they weren't sure if that was legal (!).

I then argued with the guards about putting a stamp, but they said they had to that 'in lieu' of the Schengen visa. In any case I think this is quite handy as next time we try to enter NL at least they can see we've entered before without a visa.

Actually ten minutes delay is not so bad; in a similar situation I have spent more than an hour to convince them of my rights. But that was more than a year ago. The last time on 20 december we could walk through without any problem. My impression is that quite a few immigration officers are young and not so experienced, and it seems unusual cases like ours are used for "training on the job".

They are right, by the way, about putting an entry (and exit) stamp in the passport. Article 5.3 of directive 2004/38 refers only to the "host country", that is the country that issued the Residence Card (so UK in our case)

isceon · Post by **isceon** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:21 pm

quote:They are right, by the way, about putting an entry (and exit) stamp in the passport. Article 5.3 of directive 2004/38 refers only to the "host country", that is the country that issued the Residence Card (so UK in our case)

I don't agree with this,in my reading host country refers to the country you are entering( any of the EEA states.) otherwise they would have said the country of residence.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:32 pm

isceon wrote:quote:They are right, by the way, about putting an entry (and exit) stamp in the passport. Article 5.3 of directive 2004/38 refers only to the "host country", that is the country that issued the Residence Card (so UK in our case)
I don't agree with this,in my reading host country refers to the country you are entering( any of the EEA states.) otherwise they would have said the country of residence.

Sorry, but I think the definition of host member state in article 2 of the directive is pretty clear on this: it is the country where you take up residence, not where you travel to for a short stay only

isceon · Post by **isceon** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:29 pm

Well i still think that I am right and you are wrong because the article5.3 (you quoted in your previous post) is about the right of entry to any EEA state (and the word Host could be any of the 27) not about residence.as you could be travelling in Europe and living in your EEA country of origin.
Lets wait for a third opinion ok

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:34 am

isceon wrote:Well i still think that I am right and you are wrong because the article5.3 (you quoted in your previous post) is about the right of entry to any EEA state (and the word Host could be any of the 27) not about residence.as you could be travelling in Europe and living in your EEA country of origin.
Lets wait for a third opinion ok

Point (9) in the preamble may support your view where "host Member State" is used in regards of stays not exceeding three months. However, in Article 6 "another Member State" is used.

I guess each member state will interpret it in their own way. As far as I remember the Latvian IOs didn't stamp the passport.

bdb303 · Post by **bdb303** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:54 pm

I agree with iscean, in the Schengen handbook for border guards it also states:

[quote]The travel document of family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens who are thirdcountry
nationals must also be stamped, unless they present a residence permit or card with
the indication â€œfamily member of an EU citizenâ€

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Next time I visit NL my mission will be to refuse the stamp, or at least to go for the stamp on a separate sheet option....

Would be helpful to take a copy of the above regulation you cited too.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:41 am

Plum70 wrote:
Next time I visit NL my mission will be to refuse the stamp, or at least to go for the stamp on a separate sheet option....
Would be helpful to take a copy of the above regulation you cited too.

Actually I wonder if this Schengen handbook is actually used by border guards...

bdb303 · Post by **bdb303** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:41 pm

Probably not, but at least it does give the European Commission's view on how the directive should be applied in practice.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:50 pm

86ti wrote:Actually I wonder if this Schengen handbook is actually used by border guards...

I think it is used.

republique · Post by **republique** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:56 pm

86ti wrote:
Plum70 wrote:
Next time I visit NL my mission will be to refuse the stamp, or at least to go for the stamp on a separate sheet option....
Would be helpful to take a copy of the above regulation you cited too.
Actually I wonder if this Schengen handbook is actually used by border guards...

It always helpful to have something to prove your case.
I got stopped by a copper for driving with a L plate, I was going to my driver's test and you need it for the test but I was allowed to drive to the test because I was still within the 1st year foreign license validity period. When he stopped me he said you know are driving with an L plate without an accompanying driver and I just gave him the website info I had printed out, he read it, gave it back and said have a nice day. I didn't say one word to him. So having info to refer to is always very strong persuasion.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:26 pm

Did you tell them you were travelling alone?

As far as the Italians are concerned the visa is free and valid if the EU family member is in tow or not.

At times being too honest is the same as shooting onerself in the foot.

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Experiences of NL visit without Schengen visa but with EEA2

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