Citizenship timeline tracker.

[ib_dublin]

Anyone gets approval for this month (Jan-2009).

we should start hearing approval for this month now

do uknow when did they sent names for minster approvals ?

They prepared my application after coming back from garda check on 2nd-dec but sent to minister on 9th-Jan.
I asked INIS for delay but they couldn't explain why it took so long to sent to minister approval.

[IrelandHopeful]

I prayed before calling them (believe me, it has come to that... ).

I asked the usual question 'for the status of my application'.

I was told the same old story 'still waiting for Garda clearance'.

Then I informed her that I applied in Jan 2005, all additional documents requested of me (i.e. bank stats, P21, payslips, birth & marriage affidavits) were promptly submitted.

I then went a step further and said that I had been informed since over a year ago, that my application was awaiting Garda clearance before going to the minister. I then went further again, 'this surely can't take 12 months'.

So she said, that's true, it doesn't take that long...'your application is being handled in the Dublin office'... 'hold on the phone while I check your files'

Now, my people, hold your breathe a moment...

The lady said 'IT APPEARS THAT THE GARDA CLEARANCE ACTUALLY CAME IN BUT A NEW ONE WAS REQUESTED BECAUSE IT HAD BECOME OUTDATED'

Now, now, I found that very confusing. I asked her what she meant by 'outdated'? And she said it was dated over 12 months ago.

I felt like crying. I told her this is the same document that held up my application and it was with them for over 12 months ...

And she apologised and said someone will call me...

[IrelandHopeful]

Yelims,

Please clarify in a few words the 'the fairly silly reason' why you were refused.

Who knows, you may not be the only person given that same 'silly reason'.

You could learn from others and others too could learn from you. That's the main basis of the forum.

IH

my application was along with my parents who 4 years before applying had one of them back to work start own business grant thingies (they since run few succesfull businesses contributing the community and the taxman)

my application got bundled together with theirs and refused (claiming the dole reason) with no way of appealing of course

it was very unfair as it didnt have much to do with me but what can you do

in last decade i went thru 3rd and 4th level education (masters) here in Ireland and worked in a large semi-state company and now own and run own business so i hope they have nothing to complain about this time, I certainly paid enough taxes to pay of alot of their wages since

anyways thats my story, im not getting hopes up i was brought crashing down before and after spending a good chunk of my life in ireland it seems very unfair but once again what can you do (as non citizen)

it really hurts thinking about this as i have put so much work in this country and made alot of friends who have a hard time understanding how the whole thing can be so messed up

what they need are the people from Revenue running Dept of Justice things would get done in no time

i certainly hope the people in Naturalisation realise that they are playing with peoples lives and hopes, and waiting years to be looked at few papers (hey ill code them an electronic system for free if the want!) is quite stressful

It seems silly, but 'not fair' is more appropriate. It's not fair on you as an individual. Afterall DoJ always claim that individual cases are decided based on their individual merits.

I'll suggest you visit or write your local TD and explain your situation to him/her and ask for his/her help. They usually respond and officially ask DoJ on your behalf. Give it a try as there's nothing to lose.

[Southern_Sky]

Anyone gets approval for this month (Jan-2009).

we should start hearing approval for this month now

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

[anotherimmigrant]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.

Hey Southern_Sky!
Congratulations! i bet you have no January Blues. Something +ve news.
Could you please tell us your profession and nationality as well.

[mktsoi]

I prayed before calling them (believe me, it has come to that... ).

I asked the usual question 'for the status of my application'.

I was told the same old story 'still waiting for Garda clearance'.

Then I informed her that I applied in Jan 2005, all additional documents requested of me (i.e. bank stats, P21, payslips, birth & marriage affidavits) were promptly submitted.

I then went a step further and said that I had been informed since over a year ago, that my application was awaiting Garda clearance before going to the minister. I then went further again, 'this surely can't take 12 months'.

So she said, that's true, it doesn't take that long...'your application is being handled in the Dublin office'... 'hold on the phone while I check your files'

Now, my people, hold your breathe a moment...

The lady said 'IT APPEARS THAT THE GARDA CLEARANCE ACTUALLY CAME IN BUT A NEW ONE WAS REQUESTED BECAUSE IT HAD BECOME OUTDATED'

Now, now, I found that very confusing. I asked her what she meant by 'outdated'? And she said it was dated over 12 months ago.

I felt like crying. I told her this is the same document that held up my application and it was with them for over 12 months ...

And she apologised and said someone will call me...

she said someone will call you from DOJ. did anyone actually call you back? did they solve the issue for you?

[Vikingdub]

Reading the posts on this forum I get the distinct impression that there is a prevailing "entitlement attitude". Please remember that naturalisation is a privilege and not a right. There are guidelines and criteria for the requirements for an application to be considered, however, fulfilling the criteria does not automatically confer any rights on the applicant. The State, rightly, investigates each individual application and takes the time necessary to verify the content of the application, if that process takes 3 years, to be it. The State has limited resources and in the present climate there is no economic justification for increasing the staffing levels at the DOJ. If you rembember that citizenship is a privilege that has to be earned you will have more respect for it when (if) it is granted.

[mktsoi]

Reading the posts on this forum I get the distinct impression that there is a prevailing "entitlement attitude". Please remember that naturalisation is a privilege and not a right. There are guidelines and criteria for the requirements for an application to be considered, however, fulfilling the criteria does not automatically confer any rights on the applicant. The State, rightly, investigates each individual application and takes the time necessary to verify the content of the application, if that process takes 3 years, to be it. The State has limited resources and in the present climate there is no economic justification for increasing the staffing levels at the DOJ. If you rembember that citizenship is a privilege that has to be earned you will have more respect for it when (if) it is granted.

look, i think most of the people will agree with you about the privilege part and it is not entitlement for all the applicants when they apply for naturalization in ireland. you see, here is something different between ireland and the rest of the english speaking countries has large amount of immigrants. canada, us, australia and nz, they all give out permanent residency first to immigrant before citizenship. at least while the immigrant waiting for the citizenship application decision, they wont be worry about being kick out from the country if they ever loss their job or something. even in uk, they might ask people to wait for 5 years before they apply for indefinite leave to remain. at least home office will tell you yes or no within a month for the ILR application. in ireland, you wait for 5 years, than you applied for citizenship, then you have to wait wait wait, but while you are waiting for you citizneship application to be examine by INIS. i hope you dont lose your job because economy downturn or other reason. if you do lose your job before they approve your citizenship application, will see if GNIB be nice to you or not, then ask yourself again if privilege is a right thing to say or the inis should process your application in a reasonable time?

most of the people here got very annoy because the incompetent irish immigration service. just look at some of the new rules they put in for past few years. it has restricted more people than ever. they want people come into ireland and work for them, but the immigrants do not allowed to bring in their wife and kids because stupid irish gov thinks those people is using up the irish school resources and other resources. just think about it. if you paying tax in ireland, dont you think you are entitle for something at some stage?

tell me if i am wrong. if it takes them 8 years to grant citizenship, then tell people 8 years, instead of 5 years and plus infinitive years of waiting! and the worst thing make me feel so annoy is the irish gov asking us gov to pardon the illegal irish in us but the irish gov treating many legal immigrants badly in ireland?

look, if the irish immigration can provide a reasonable services to public in naturalization and LTR, i am sure people in this forum wont say much!

[Heybabyy]

Vikingdub, don't preach us with DoJ's dialogues. This privilege stuff applies to every country but there is something called humanity. INIS is just harrasing the applicants. If you follow your words then don't forget that there are 50K illegal irish in US. Would you like to get them deported and send them back here?? This country has double standards when it comes to immigration/foreign nationals - you must have listened to yesterday Matt Copper's at Dublin 102.

For processing applications, just compare the standards with England from where everything else is copied. It takes only 6 months and they process over a million applications every year. They also have recession like ours.

Also looking at your old posts it seems you seems to be just advising people on forum. Have you actually applied for Naturalisation or are you employee of DoJ writing here?

[LuasPassenger]

Anyone gets approval for this month (Jan-2009).

we should start hearing approval for this month now

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

Congratulations Southern_Sky!

[Heybabyy]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

Congrats southern_sky. I wish you could have contributed to the forum before rather than writing first post after getting approval. Thanks for info anyway. Would appreciate if you could provide the following details -

What's your nationality??
When was your application sent to Garda and when it came back??

[mktsoi]

Vikingdub, don't preach us with DoJ's dialogues. This privilege stuff applies to every country but there is something called humanity. INIS is just harrasing the applicants. If you follow your words then don't forget that there are 50K illegal irish in US. Would you like to get them deported and send them back here?? This country has double standards when it comes to immigration/foreign nationals - you must have listened to yesterday Matt Copper's at Dublin 102.

For processing applications, just compare the standards with England from where everything else is copied. It takes only 6 months and they process over a million applications every year. They also have recession like ours.

Also looking at your old posts it seems you seems to be just advising people on forum. Have you actually applied for Naturalisation or are you employee of DoJ writing here?

i dont think he is employee of DOJ. if he/she is, he/she will be busy making tea in the office instead of posting here hahahhaha

[Southern_Sky]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

Congrats southern_sky. I wish you could have contributed to the forum before rather than writing first post after getting approval. Thanks for info anyway. Would appreciate if you could provide the following details -

What's your nationality??
When was your application sent to Garda and when it came back??

I found the forum quite informative as is (all 45 pages of it ), and don't believe I could have added any information of further value until my application processing was complete. So now I've decided to pass on the timeline for my application as a reference.

Personally, I don't think one's profession or nationality is a major factor in the decision making, judging by the variety of nationalities & professions of the successful applicants. However, for the record I'm in IT and am Caribbean, mon!

I responded to INIS request for updated payslips, P21, birth affidavit, etc in mid Sept 2008, and then was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008. So therefore, my Tax Status, GNIB & GARDA checks were all done between mid-Sept & 8th Dec.

I agree the the overall timeline in Ireland seems to be 8 years instead of the advertised 5. In Italy & Germany in minimum 10 years before you can even apply. And I've read that in Germany & Austria, Switzerland your application decision is not totally decided by the Gov't, but the major decision is influenced by what your neighbors in your county council/region have to say/objections. Something along the lines of what the Irish Planning approval system is based on. Everywhere in Europe is much stricter to be naturalised, in terms of waiting times before being allowed to apply, who actually has the final say, citizenship & language tests, and now the latest proposal in the UK for Community Service to assist applicants with integration.

For NEW applicants, starting 2009: Its interesting to note that the revised Citizenship Application Form 8 for 2009 on the INIS website now require additional info:
-Certified copies of Birth/Marriages Cert etc... instead of the bog-standard photocopy.
-And more surprisingly the new requirement for job letters from all your previous employers, which I reckon could be none to easy to acquire for some.

[Dublin1]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

Congrats southern_sky. I wish you could have contributed to the forum before rather than writing first post after getting approval. Thanks for info anyway. Would appreciate if you could provide the following details -

What's your nationality??
When was your application sent to Garda and when it came back??

I found the forum quite informative as is (all 45 pages of it ), and don't believe I could have added any information of further value until my application processing was complete. So now I've decided to pass on the timeline for my application as a reference.

Personally, I don't think one's profession or nationality is a major factor in the decision making, judging by the variety of nationalities & professions of the successful applicants. However, for the record I'm in IT and am Caribbean, mon!

I responded to INIS request for updated payslips, P21, birth affidavit, etc in mid Sept 2008, and then was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008. So therefore, my Tax Status, GNIB & GARDA checks were all done between mid-Sept & 8th Dec.

I agree the the overall timeline in Ireland seems to be 8 years instead of the advertised 5. In Italy & Germany in minimum 10 years before you can even apply. And I've read that in Germany & Austria, Switzerland your application decision is not totally decided by the Gov't, but the major decision is influenced by what your neighbors in your county council/region have to say/objections. Something along the lines of what the Irish Planning approval system is based on. Everywhere in Europe is much stricter to be naturalised, in terms of waiting times before being allowed to apply, who actually has the final say, citizenship & language tests, and now the latest proposal in the UK for Community Service to assist applicants with integration.

For NEW applicants, starting 2009: Its interesting to note that the revised Citizenship Application Form 8 for 2009 on the INIS website now require additional info:
-Certified copies of Birth/Marriages Cert etc... instead of the bog-standard photocopy.
-And more surprisingly the new requirement for job letters from all your previous employers, which I reckon could be none to easy to acquire for some.

I been told in Belguim u can apply after 3 years.

[mktsoi]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

Congrats southern_sky. I wish you could have contributed to the forum before rather than writing first post after getting approval. Thanks for info anyway. Would appreciate if you could provide the following details -

What's your nationality??
When was your application sent to Garda and when it came back??

I found the forum quite informative as is (all 45 pages of it ), and don't believe I could have added any information of further value until my application processing was complete. So now I've decided to pass on the timeline for my application as a reference.

Personally, I don't think one's profession or nationality is a major factor in the decision making, judging by the variety of nationalities & professions of the successful applicants. However, for the record I'm in IT and am Caribbean, mon!

I responded to INIS request for updated payslips, P21, birth affidavit, etc in mid Sept 2008, and then was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008. So therefore, my Tax Status, GNIB & GARDA checks were all done between mid-Sept & 8th Dec.

I agree the the overall timeline in Ireland seems to be 8 years instead of the advertised 5. In Italy & Germany in minimum 10 years before you can even apply. And I've read that in Germany & Austria, Switzerland your application decision is not totally decided by the Gov't, but the major decision is influenced by what your neighbors in your county council/region have to say/objections. Something along the lines of what the Irish Planning approval system is based on. Everywhere in Europe is much stricter to be naturalised, in terms of waiting times before being allowed to apply, who actually has the final say, citizenship & language tests, and now the latest proposal in the UK for Community Service to assist applicants with integration.

For NEW applicants, starting 2009: Its interesting to note that the revised Citizenship Application Form 8 for 2009 on the INIS website now require additional info:
-Certified copies of Birth/Marriages Cert etc... instead of the bog-standard photocopy.
-And more surprisingly the new requirement for job letters from all your previous employers, which I reckon could be none to easy to acquire for some.

well, does germany tell people to wait for 10 years than applied, and the germany government tells u to wait for another 5 years before they give u the passport? haha

there are couple things i would like to say as well. i can understand the certified birth or marriage certs. thats what i have done in the original citizenship application. i just sent in a certified translation of my birth cert. they have never ask for birth cert after. getting people to get their previous employers to give a job letter, this is stupid. they should ask people to submit all their p21 statement for all the years that they have work, because the p21 shows the name of the employer anyway.

about the community service proposal in uk. this is another stupid idea as well. if you do community services, what does it show? most of the brits are not willing to do it themself, why should they other people to do it? they drink lots of Guinness in the pub here. should they ask the new immigrants to drink lots of Guinness to fit into the society as well?

what happened to the free society idea? i thought the european has been teaching their kids about freedom. people can do whatever they like as long as it is within the law allowed? no? how many hours of community services you think the person who proposal the immigrants should do community services will do themself? haha

[ashimashi]

Reading the posts on this forum I get the distinct impression that there is a prevailing "entitlement attitude". Please remember that naturalisation is a privilege and not a right. There are guidelines and criteria for the requirements for an application to be considered, however, fulfilling the criteria does not automatically confer any rights on the applicant. The State, rightly, investigates each individual application and takes the time necessary to verify the content of the application, if that process takes 3 years, to be it. The State has limited resources and in the present climate there is no economic justification for increasing the staffing levels at the DOJ. If you rembember that citizenship is a privilege that has to be earned you will have more respect for it when (if) it is granted.

We all very well know that it's not a privilege, and it can't be dished out willy-nilly, but your argument is fundamentally flawed:

- Processing applications faster not only doesn't cost the government more, but also it actually generates revenue. INIS has been turning profit for the past few years. For each processed application the applicant will have to pay a fee of €1000 euro so it's not a burden on the state and it's resources, so that argument is short-sighted in the best case and cynically misleading in the worst case.

- There is no doubt that checks and balances should be in place but they don't even start it until around 2 years from the application. They then open the files again and inquire. This could be done straight away after the application but DoJ claims -guess what- lack of resources and a long queue! I refer you to the previous point!!!

Over all I would be happy to pay more to have DoJ hire more officers and government to earn some cash but process my application in a manner and timeframe that remotely resembles that of any other civilised nation in the world. Or even the UK for that matter

[scrudu]

VikingDub: Once again you've joined a thread and your comment seems to be simply belligerent and unhelpful. I absolutely disagree with your point. Your words "remember that naturalisation is a privilege and not a right" are very reminiscent of Minsister O'Dowell's comments in the Dail, which always struck me more as an excuse and a distraction whenever he commented on timelines for citizenship applications.

As you say, according to Irish law there is no direct entitlement to Irish citizenship, the immigration and DOFA websites are clear that immigrants may apply for Irish citizenship after a 3/5 year period depending on how they came into the country. Nearly all countries have simliar rules so as to encourage immigrants who intend to stay in the country to become fully part of it. A person cannot be a full member of a society unless they have the right to vote in local/general elections and can live in peace and free in the knowledge that they will be protected by the state in which they live. Denying new immigrants these social freedoms marginalises them and keeps them in an unsecure and tentative state in their new country.

I strongly believe that if we are to avoid the mistakes of other countries who have experienced mass immigration in the past (e.g. FR/UK) we need to encourage long term immigrants to apply for citizenship, and if they do, treat their application with respect. This does not mean that simply because someone wants to stay they should be allowed, proper checks should be made to check criminal past, intent to stay in the country, respect of the values of the country, intent to integrate with local people, etc.

What I and others on this board do not understand or respect is how long it takes the DoJ to handle applications once submitted. If the DoJ requires further information, request it. If the DoJ requires a different format of information, request it. But surely the DoJ could get a complete and comprehensive list of what they need to feel satisfied that an applicant is being honest in their application and would be a suitable candidate to affirm Irish Citizenship upon.

How long can it take to consider the documentation submitted? According to the DoJ, the only outside information they request is from the Dept of Finance and the Garda Vetting Office. As an individual I can request the same information they request and have an answer back within 7 days. So, if you consider that an average application might include 20-30 pages of information, should it really take so long for a trained officer to consider they application? In all liklihood it takes only a matter of hours. What seems evident to me from repeated responses in the Dail from consecutive Ministers of Justice, is that they continually use the excuse of "it is a right, not an entitlment" to simply shelve applications and only review them once a particular time period (2-3-4 years) has passed.

about the community service proposal in uk. this is another stupid idea as well. if you do community services, what does it show? most of the brits are not willing to do it themself, why should they other people to do it? they drink lots of Guinness in the pub here. should they ask the new immigrants to drink lots of Guinness to fit into the society as well?

mktsoi: To be honest, unless you are planning on getting Irish citizenship simply to get the next flight out of this country and ease your travel to other countries, I'm not really sure why you are applying at all. While I understand you have been through a long trial with the Irish Immigration system, you seem to have nothing but utter disregard for the Irish people. If are are simply all "guinness swilling idiots", then why would you wish to take on Irish citizenship and be classed as one of us. I find it quite insulting that you class everyone by your experience with a few. I think you would be well advised to try to make better Irish friends if the experiences you describe in many posts is all you know of Irish people. Your posts are invariably an angry diatrabe not merely against the Immigration system but against Irish people in General.

In response to your comments about the community service proposal in the UK. I think you only have to look at the problems that have been experienced with mass Immigration in the UK to understand such proposals. Similar proposals are already in place in other countries such as CA/AU. There are huge tracts of communities in the UK who do not speak the local language, do interact only with other ex-pats and fail to integrate fully into local society. As someone who has lived for many years outside my own country I understand that the onus is on the immigrant themselves to work at this integration and that it is not always an easy task. But to avoid ghettoisation and eventual uprisings and unrest (remember the riots last year in Paris?) such attempts are well meant and seem to me to go in the right direction. We do not want to have a 2nd generation of immigrants to feel like 2nd class citizens in the only country they have ever known as home.

[yelims]

Reading the posts on this forum I get the distinct impression that there is a prevailing "entitlement attitude". Please remember that naturalisation is a privilege and not a right. There are guidelines and criteria for the requirements for an application to be considered, however, fulfilling the criteria does not automatically confer any rights on the applicant. The State, rightly, investigates each individual application and takes the time necessary to verify the content of the application, if that process takes 3 years, to be it. The State has limited resources and in the present climate there is no economic justification for increasing the staffing levels at the DOJ. If you rembember that citizenship is a privilege that has to be earned you will have more respect for it when (if) it is granted.

Do you blame the people who work hard, integrated into the community, in some cases lived here for dozen years or more, run businesses employing local people, pay mountains of taxes, dont claim the dole to be feeling let down and disappointed

it is quite unfair, on average a person posting here has been living and working here for the last 8-10 years (in my case much longer) and integrated with the Irish society, have irish friends an irish partner go drinking pints every so often, watch soccer etc

yet its hard not to feel treated as 2nd class citizen and over the last 13 years i noticed a huge rise in beloved, when i came to ireland alot of people were emmigrating from here and times were tough but people were welcoming

and then there are the restrictions placed on travel make it much harder to conduct business, for example i cant meet with companies in netherlands, belgium and sweden that i trade with (bringing money into local economy) without jumping thru the multiple rings of fire to get visas there and back

i taught of talking with local politicians but theres a worry that because i cant vote for them they might not bother spending the time to hear me out

once again it hurts quite alot of writing all of this as i myself integrated well with the locals and spend a large chunk of my adult life here, but the whole process is so strung out

[mktsoi]

VikingDub: Once again you've joined a thread and your comment seems to be simply belligerent and unhelpful. I absolutely disagree with your point. Your words "remember that naturalisation is a privilege and not a right" are very reminiscent of Minsister O'Dowell's comments in the Dail, which always struck me more as an excuse and a distraction whenever he commented on timelines for citizenship applications.

As you say, according to Irish law there is no direct entitlement to Irish citizenship, the immigration and DOFA websites are clear that immigrants may apply for Irish citizenship after a 3/5 year period depending on how they came into the country. Nearly all countries have simliar rules so as to encourage immigrants who intend to stay in the country to become fully part of it. A person cannot be a full member of a society unless they have the right to vote in local/general elections and can live in peace and free in the knowledge that they will be protected by the state in which they live. Denying new immigrants these social freedoms marginalises them and keeps them in an unsecure and tentative state in their new country.

I strongly believe that if we are to avoid the mistakes of other countries who have experienced mass immigration in the past (e.g. FR/UK) we need to encourage long term immigrants to apply for citizenship, and if they do, treat their application with respect. This does not mean that simply because someone wants to stay they should be allowed, proper checks should be made to check criminal past, intent to stay in the country, respect of the values of the country, intent to integrate with local people, etc.

What I and others on this board do not understand or respect is how long it takes the DoJ to handle applications once submitted. If the DoJ requires further information, request it. If the DoJ requires a different format of information, request it. But surely the DoJ could get a complete and comprehensive list of what they need to feel satisfied that an applicant is being honest in their application and would be a suitable candidate to affirm Irish Citizenship upon.

How long can it take to consider the documentation submitted? According to the DoJ, the only outside information they request is from the Dept of Finance and the Garda Vetting Office. As an individual I can request the same information they request and have an answer back within 7 days. So, if you consider that an average application might include 20-30 pages of information, should it really take so long for a trained officer to consider they application? In all liklihood it takes only a matter of hours. What seems evident to me from repeated responses in the Dail from consecutive Ministers of Justice, is that they continually use the excuse of "it is a right, not an entitlment" to simply shelve applications and only review them once a particular time period (2-3-4 years) has passed.

about the community service proposal in uk. this is another stupid idea as well. if you do community services, what does it show? most of the brits are not willing to do it themself, why should they other people to do it? they drink lots of Guinness in the pub here. should they ask the new immigrants to drink lots of Guinness to fit into the society as well?

mktsoi: To be honest, unless you are planning on getting Irish citizenship simply to get the next flight out of this country and ease your travel to other countries, I'm not really sure why you are applying at all. While I understand you have been through a long trial with the Irish Immigration system, you seem to have nothing but utter disregard for the Irish people. If are are simply all "guinness swilling idiots", then why would you wish to take on Irish citizenship and be classed as one of us. I find it quite insulting that you class everyone by your experience with a few. I think you would be well advised to try to make better Irish friends if the experiences you describe in many posts is all you know of Irish people. Your posts are invariably an angry diatrabe not merely against the Immigration system but against Irish people in General.

In response to your comments about the community service proposal in the UK. I think you only have to look at the problems that have been experienced with mass Immigration in the UK to understand such proposals. Similar proposals are already in place in other countries such as CA/AU. There are huge tracts of communities in the UK who do not speak the local language, do interact only with other ex-pats and fail to integrate fully into local society. As someone who has lived for many years outside my own country I understand that the onus is on the immigrant themselves to work at this integration and that it is not always an easy task. But to avoid ghettoisation and eventual uprisings and unrest (remember the riots last year in Paris?) such attempts are well meant and seem to me to go in the right direction. We do not want to have a 2nd generation of immigrants to feel like 2nd class citizens in the only country they have ever known as home.

look, i was just saying it as an example. i have some very good irish friends. i am not saying they are all drunk. i was just comparing. just like some irish people eat rabbit and i dont. if the irish immigration saying that it is an irish way of life and new immigrant has to eat rabbit in order to be naturalized citizen. if you are a vegetarian, what can you do? start to eat rabbit? all i am saying is, stop adding layers of request to the new comers, and try to make the system more efficient instead. the new comers have to respect the way of life in ireland of course but again. the new immigrants were needed in ireland as well. you think ireland didnt get anything out from those immigrants come to work in ireland as well? like i said, the system is not fair. they made the people wait for 5, now economy is going, if they get lay off. you think the GNIB will be nice to those guys worked in ireland for 5 years and hasn't received their citizenship? do you remember McDowell put in that run if anyone claimed any social benefit 3 years prior to their citizenship applications being looked at, it is a automatically no for citizenship?

few years back, one of my coworker from my old job was telling me that his next door neighbor is a Surgeon in one of the main hospital in Dublin. i dont even make half of the money he made any given year. he is from Jordan. The INIS wouldnt let him to bring his family over and the excuse from INIS was he wouldnt be able to support his family. this is pretty sad.

it doesnt have to be granting citizenship to people right the way, but at least they should have some sort of system to take away people's worries. see what i mean? just like i mentioned before, grant people LTR faster, just like they do in Britain. the decision time for ILR is about a month. are you telling me it will take GNIB 2 years to grant you a 5 years extension? is this good or bad? i cant remember who that lady was, but i gave an advice to a lady and she got her Permission to Remain renew in GNIB office. look, GNIB and INIS just giving people a runaway. thats what they doing.

[ib_dublin]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.[/quote]

Congratulations Southern_Sky.

[yelims]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

congrats ib_dublin! and thanks for posting here it really does help some of us feel better

[pahadia]

Anyone know what number to call to check status update of your naturalization application ?

[burbero]

look, i think most of the people will agree with you about the privilege part and it is not entitlement for all the applicants when they apply for naturalization in ireland. you see, here is something different between ireland and the rest of the english speaking countries has large amount of immigrants. canada, us, australia and nz, they all give out permanent residency first to immigrant before citizenship. at least while the immigrant waiting for the citizenship application decision, they wont be worry about being kick out from the country if they ever loss their job or something.

This is not true, at least in relation of the US - my friend lives there for 12 years (6 studing, 6 working) - he is still waiting for Green Card . If he loses his job now (which is very much probable in the next few months) he has to leave the country immediately. There is no transparency in the Green Card processing at all (unlike Ireland where you can at least call support number and get some notification of your status). Through lawyers he was promised GC to be issued in March of last year, then in November. Now lawyers even don't give any timeframe indications.
Have another friend who had to leave the US last year after 6 years of working there.

[LuasPassenger]

Anyone know what number to call to check status update of your naturalization application ?

Contact details are available here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP08000089

Thanks,
LP

[ib_dublin]

I've just recieved my approval letter from INIS today.
-I applied July 2006 on basis of 5 years residency/workpermits
-Sent updated documents Sept 2008
-Called INIS to enquire as to current status on 8th Jan 2009 and was told that my application was sent to the Minister on 8th Dec 2008.
-Received approval letter from INIS today - 20th Jan 2009. Admittedly, I wasn't quite expecting it..but that's how life surprises you. Luckily it was a pleasant surprise
-It appears my Garda check took just 5 weeks (or less).
-Next step to book appointment with the Court to swear an Oath of Allegiance.

congrats ib_dublin! and thanks for posting here it really does help some of us feel better

I havn't received any approval.... i was just congratulating Southern_Sky