Nationality Application form and documentation question

[John]

That is good, about the ceremony. Hope you enjoy! We certainly enjoyed my wife's one last June.

The passport application .... I think my answer is .... not sure. Is there anyone else in the office who has known you at least two years who is a Director or Company Secretary of the company, or has a professional qualification such as Accountant?

If there is no one else, maybe phone the Passport Agency and ask them? Or is the ""e-business development manager" or anyone else there holding some sort of professional qualification?

Or a neighbour who is a teacher or a policeman or even a JP?

[User]

Oh Goodness! Do we have to again go through the "signature by someone who knows you for blah blah years" (something we have already done when applying for naturalisation!!!!!!!!!!). Come on! This is really frustrating.

I guess they should accept something reasonable as well - for example, a full UK driving license (which does have the driver's signature, photographs) and its is also certified by DVLA, considering the fact that the signature in my driving license application was anyway certified by someone who knew me for "atleast 2 years".

How many times do they want us to go thorugh this "signature by someone who knows you for 2/3/5/etc. years"!

No disrespect meant here to UK govt. or the passport agency, but this is really unreasonable and annoying.

Anyways... we have to do that if we need the passport!

John - do you think i could possibly get the counter-signature done by my accountants (professional accountants - registered and practising Chartererd Accountants). They have been my accountants for the past 3 years.


Ta!

regards.

[John]

Please realise that the British Passport application form is the same for everyone. That is, there is not a special form for those who have been Naturalised as British ... simply questions on the form to complete if that is the case.

I make that point because the great majority of applicants have never been naturalised. They were born British. And now they need someone to vouch, in the main, for the appearance of the applicant. That is, they have not needed to provide any referees on a naturalisation application form.

Accountants OK .... undoubtedly .... also your GP ... but doubt be surprised if the Doctor charges a fee for completing the form.

But lots more people are totally acceptable .... you have known your neighbours, or indeed past neighbours, for at least at least two years? If so any teachers, policemen, or profesionally qualified people amongst all those people?

Acceptable are :-

The countersignatory must hold a current British or Irish passport, and be willing to provide their passport number in the relevant space in section 10.

ACCEPTABLE COUNTERSIGNATURES

* Accountant
* Articled Clerk of a Limited Company
* Assurance Agent of Recognised Company
* Bank/Building Society Official
* Barrister
* Broker
* Chairman/Director of Limited Company
* Chemist
* Chiropodist
* Christian Science Practitioner
* Commissioner of Oaths
* Councillor: Local or County
* Civil Servant (permanent)
* Dentist
* Engineer (with professional Qualifications)
* Fire Service Official
* Funeral Director
* Insurance agent (full time) of a recognised Company
* Journalist
* Justice of the Peace
* Legal Secretary (members and fellows of the Institute of legal secretaries)
* Local Government Officer
* Manager/Personnel Officer (of Limited Company)
* Member of Parliament
* Merchant Navy Officer
* Minister of a recognised religion
* Nurse (SRN and SEN)
* Officer of the armed services (Active or Retired)
* Optician
* Person with Honours (eg OBE MBE etc)
* Photographer (Professional)
* Police Officer
* Post Office Official
* President/Secretary of a recognised organisation
* Salvation Army Officer
* Social Worker
* Solicitor
* Surveyor
* Teacher, Lecturer
* Trade Union Officer
* Travel Agency (Qualified)
* Valuers and auctioneers (fellow and associate members of the incorporated society)
* Warrant officers and Chief Petty Officers

Or persons of similar standing to the above, working or retired, are acceptable as countersignatories.

Relatives or partners should not countersign passport applications.

The work of the Passport Service includes a check to confirm that the countersignature is genuine. Make sure that the countersignatory is aware that we may contact them to confirm their details. If we are unable to do so we may ask you to provide another application form with an alternative countersignatory. In some cases we may require further evidence of identity.

Also note :-

A countersignature is usually only needed if the application is for a first passport or to replace a lost, stolen or missing passport. A countersignature may be needed if the renewal or extension of a passport and the appearance of the holder has changed considerably, for example if the passport was issued when they were a small child.

-: so it is totally possible that you may need to get one countersignature in your life.

[desperado]

If there is no one else, maybe phone the Passport Agency and ask them? Or is the ""e-business development manager" or anyone else there holding some sort of professional qualification?

Thanks for the info john. I called the passport agency and asked them whether e-commerce development manager can sign as a countersignatory and they said Yes

If we use the check & send service from the post office for applying passport do we also have to send original citizenship certificate?

[John]

A few years ago I worked for a software house. When I joined that company there were lots of people working there with the job title of "Computer Programmer". But when I left there there were no computer programmers .... they all had the job title of "Software Engineer"!

I mention that because one thing on the list from the Passport Agency is "Engineer (with professional Qualifications)", and if you phone them I suspect that is the answer you will get, the need for the person to have a professional qualification.

So is that "e-business development manager" or indeed anyone else at work professionally qualified?

[desperado]

A few years ago I worked for a software house. When I joined that company there were lots of people working there with the job title of "Computer Programmer". But when I left there there were no computer programmers .... they all had the job title of "Software Engineer"!

I mention that because one thing on the list from the Passport Agency is "Engineer (with professional Qualifications)", and if you phone them I suspect that is the answer you will get, the need for the person to have a professional qualification.

So is that "e-business development manager" or indeed anyone else at work professionally qualified?

He is a MBA in business administration and has been working for the company for a long time. He is professionally qualified and he has also become compliance manager recently. So his title is "e-business development and compliance manager".

[John]

So no problem then ... he should enter details of his professional qualification.

That is, it is not so much his job title that qualifies him to sign, but it is his professional qualification that allows him to do so.

[desperado]

So no problem then ... he should enter details of his professional qualification.

That is, it is not so much his job title that qualifies him to sign, but it is his professional qualification that allows him to do so.

Thanks john. Anyway I have changed my countersignatory now. One of my friend is a director of his own limited company and he said he will be happy to sign for it.

If we use the check & send service from the post office for applying passport do we also have to send original citizenship certificate?

How about this one? Do I have to send my original citizenship certificate?

[John]

Do I have to send my original citizenship certificate?

Yes you do, as well as your non-British passport. Worried about security in the postal system? So was the Passport Office a couple of years ago! So now they use a courier firm to return documents and to deliver new passports.

Just one thing about the passport application form. There is a box is which you need to sign, and a warning that your signature must be totally within that box. They are totally serious about that! If any part of the signature strays outside of that box then the application will be rejected.

Why? Because a scan of that signature ends up being printed on your passport.

[desperado]

Do I have to send my original citizenship certificate?

Yes you do, as well as your non-British passport. Worried about security in the postal system? So was the Passport Office a couple of years ago! So now they use a courier firm to return documents and to deliver new passports.

Thanks for the info john. I'm glad to let you all know that today I attended my citizenship ceremony and got my british citizen certificate. Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. Thank you all

[User]

Hi desparado,

Congrats to you!

It will be great if you can describe how the ceremony was!

Can't wait to take mine :-)

Ta!

regards.

[John]

desperado, congratulations .... British Citizen!

Now don't forget to get yourself added to the Voter's List (if you are not already on it as a Commonwealth Citizen).

[desperado]

Hi desparado,

Congrats to you!

It will be great if you can describe how the ceremony was!

Can't wait to take mine :-)

Ta!

regards.

Sure...I would love to share my experience with others.

The citizenship ceremony was scheduled for 3pm and we have been asked to be there no later then 2.30pm and I was there by 2.20pm. There was this huge hall where everyone were sitting around and having drinks (orange, apple, still or sparkling water). There were two lovely ladies sitting by a desk with lots of documents and papers. I went to them and told my name and they asked for my home office invitation letter, proof of identity (my passport in this case), county council invitation letter. They checked my documents and noted my attendance in a paper. Then they wrote my name in county council registration book and asked me to help myself for some refreshments and told me a lady will come around each and every eligible candidate and give basic instructions.

I was sitting with my friends, having apple juice. This lady came around and confirmed my name and told me at 3pm only the eligible citizens should come to the meeting hall and guest will join later.

At 3pm all the eligble citizens went to the hall and the lady called us one by one by name and arranged us to sit according to the oath type (swear or affirm). All who swear alliegance sat on the left and all who affirm alligenace sat on the right according to the name order. We were given a card and paper which contains the affirmation of allegiance wordings and national anthem. She briefly told us the agenda of what is going to happen in the citizenship ceremony.

Later the guests joined us and they all sat behind us. We all stood up for the officials appointed on behalf of queen. He gave us a welcome speech and then a lady asked all the eligible citizenship candidate to stand up and she first asked all who wants to affirm alliegance to repeat after her. We all repeated after her and then she asked all who swear alliegance to repeat after her. They all did. After the allegiance...we all sat and we were called by our name one by one and was presented with our citizenship certificate by officials. Make sure you pose for photograph...they take two photograph with the official holding your citizenship certificate. After receiving the certificate and before going back to our seat...we went to the other side of the hall to sign the county register of citizens.

After the certificate has been handed over we stood up for national anthem and we sang the national anthem. Then we were told to see the photographer if we want to take family photos otherwise go down with the county officials for a tea and coffee...that was it.

We had coffee and had a few chats and left for the day. It was good experience and I throughly enjoyed it

Good luck for your ceremony user. enjoy it.

ps. what is the diff between swear or affirm? Swear alligenace is you swear by almighty god and affirm is solemly and sincerely by yourself and not in the name of god.

[desperado]

desperado, congratulations .... British Citizen!

Now don't forget to get yourself added to the Voter's List (if you are not already on it as a Commonwealth Citizen).

Thanks john. I'm very pleased about my british citizenship I have already registered for voting as I'm a common wealth citizen.

[User]

Cheers Desperado I can't wait to enjoy mine

Couple of questions:

1. Is there any formal dress-code for the ceremony? What would you suggest, considering the dress-code of the whole lot that came there?

2. How long does the ceremony go on for? So I can plan my day-off next week accordingly.

Ta!

regards.

[User]

Hi All,

I have got my ceremony date confirmed for next wednesday -the 22nd June.

Can't wait to see it in action

Will keep you all updated!

Ta!

[desperado]

Cheers Desperado I can't wait to enjoy mine

Couple of questions:

1. Is there any formal dress-code for the ceremony? What would you suggest, considering the dress-code of the whole lot that came there?

2. How long does the ceremony go on for? So I can plan my day-off next week accordingly.

Ta!

regards.

1. There is no dress code. But almost all of them were smartly dressed. I was wearing a suit and so was many of them. But I also saw smart casuals (not jeans or shorts etc) but good smart casuals.

2. The actual ceremony only last 40 mins but the waiting, photography after the ceremony and refreshments took about 1 hr and 30 mins. I was there about 2.15pm and I came out at about 4.15 - 4.30pm. It would be wise to take half a day off and enjoy the rest of the day. It is a brilliant feeling after the ceremony. I went to the pub with my guests after the ceremony and got hammered...

Good luck and enjoy the ceremony I certainly did.

[User]

Hi ,

My citizenship ceremony is confirmed for coming wednesday - 22nd.

I have recd. all the documentation - i.e. HO invitation letter, ceremony confirmation ,etc.

However i noted that they have wrongly spelt my place of birth city name in the invitation. I also got it confirmed from the registration office (ceremony office) that the naturalistion certificate also has the place of birth wrongly spelt.

I was advised that i could still take my ceremony and receive my naturalisation certificate, but then i will have to send it to HO for correction, which can take 2-3 weeks for correction to be made and certificate posted back to me.

This puts a a long wait before i see my British passport in hand

I checked up with my citizenship application, photocopy of my supporting eveidence, etc and i can see that the place of birth is all correct everywhere.

I just wonder how they could make such silly mistakes.

My frustration is - i was looking forward to receieving my passport soon, now it gets deferred by another 2-3 weeks because of this.

Anyway... Just wanted to keep you all informed.

I wonder what will be the effect of this spelling mistake by HO on my citizenship on 22nd June.
I guess i will be a citizen on that date, irrecpective of the fact that the Place of birth is wrongly spelt, which i will get it corrected later by HO anyway.

I hate all these sorts of last minute annoying things....

Ta!

regards.

[desperado]

Hi ,
However i noted that they have wrongly spelt my place of birth city name in the invitation. I also got it confirmed from the registration office (ceremony office) that the naturalistion certificate also has the place of birth wrongly spelt.

I'm very sorry to hear that. It is really frustrating and annoying that they make silly mistakes like that.

I have a question for you though...is your city of birth spelt the same way it is spelt in your current passport? If your current passport city of birth and naturlisation certificate city of birth spelt the same way then you don't have any problems. HO always put the city of birth, country of birth and date of birth based on your current passport and not application form (that's what i think). If in your current passport you have got city of birth spelt the same way as citizenship certificate then I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If city of birth is spelt correctly in your current passport but wrongly in citizenship certificate then you gotta change your citizenship certificate because when you apply for new british passport the post office checks date of birth, city of birth and country of birth details on your citizenship certificate, passport application along with your current passport.

On the positive side, after you receive the british citizenship certificate, you are legally british citizen. Its just the british passport that is delayed.

Some of my friends haven't bothered to apply for british passport yet because they don't have any plans to go abroad and they are taking their time to get the british passport. If you are planning to go abroad and if you want to get it quickly then there is a guaranteed 1 week service available from passport office. The best service that is available out there is check and send service from your local main post office. Which offers the passport in 2 weeks but it doesn't gurantee the passport in 2 weeks.

cheers

[User]

Cheers Desperado,

My current passport has the city name correctly spelled. The mistake is only in the invitation letter and the naturalisation certificate (registration office told me that).

The mistake is that the HO has skipped one letter of alphabet from the city name

So i take it that once I attend the citizenship ceremony and get my naturalisation certificate, i am defenitely british citizen, irrespective of this correction that i will ask the HO to do

So what do you suggest - Should i go and surrender my home country passport soon after gtting my naturalisation on Wednesday or would it be a good idea to wait for the corrected naturalisation certificate to come back to me fom HO?

Since the Home country law says that the moment i get my citizenship from another country, i should surrender my home country passports so it can be cancelled and given back to me.


Ta!

regards.

[desperado]

So what do you suggest - Should i go and surrender my home country passport soon after gtting my naturalisation on Wednesday or would it be a good idea to wait for the corrected naturalisation certificate to come back to me fom HO?

Since the Home country law says that the moment i get my citizenship from another country, i should surrender my home country passports so it can be cancelled and given back to me.

oh I wouldn't rush into surrending the old passport not just yet...because when you apply for new british passport you have to send your old passport and also when you send your citizenship certificate for correction you have to send your old passport. I hold an indian passport and my home country law says I have to surrender it but I don't have it with me now because I have sent it to apply for my new british passport. As soon as I get my british passport then I will surrender. Before that I don't have to rush into surrender my old passport.

[John]

User wrote :-

Should I go and surrender my home country passport soon after getting my naturalisation on Wednesday or would it be a good idea to wait for the corrected naturalisation certificate to come back to me from HO?

I think the order should be :-

1. wait for the corrected Naturalisation Certificate to arrive
2. apply for British passport, using that corrected Naturalisation Certificate (and as already said, you will also need to send off your current passport when you make that application)
3. after that British passport arrives, then, and only then, surrender your current passport ... if the law of that country demands it.

So pleased we did not need to consider this aspect. My wife is both Thai and British ... thanks to the laws of both countries allowing dual nationality.

[rogerroger]

hey desperado

how do you travel when you apply for the british passport. i mean you ahev sent in your one and only indian passport and are waiting for your british passport, so yo uare stuck in the UK till then, correct?

is this "stuck" time or waiting period a long time?
question on indian citizenship,
i understand that you have to surrender the indian citizenship when you acuire british citizenhip. that is what is on my passport.

sodo we havr to then reapply for a new overseas indian citizenship or have there been a change in the rules and you can be an equal indian citizen?


also recently i came across an articl on bbc's site which spoke about this elaborate test of britishness ,weher you got to answer questions like what do you do if you spill some one else's pint. (questions out of this 150 page book), is that exam gonna kick in lnext year or did you have to take the exam too?

[Joseph]

rogerroger, user and desperado
If you don't want to surrender your Indian passport, do you really have to? Suppose you apply for a Certificate of Entitlement for the Right of Abode (ROA) in your Indian Passport? It only costs £20 and you can use your new naturalisation certificate to get it. With ROA, you get certain benefits:

1. Unrestricted entry into the UK (forever-although it needs to be transferred to subsequent passports, which is currently at no cost in the UK) and freedom from immigration control on your Indian Passport. Proof of your ability to work freely in the UK.

2. I assume that as long as you don't get the British passport, you would not lose your full Indian citizenship (which seems to be a lot better than the new overseas citizenship currently being offered by the Indian Government).

3. You won't have to give up your Indian passport (the job market is currently better in India so it may be good to keep it!).

4. Getting ROA is still cheap at £20 when done in the UK (although it takes a couple of months to get it).

The downside is you won't have a British passport which facilitates travel outside Britain (especially the EU). Also the 2 month waiting period (without access to your passport) would restrict your travel. But you can always postpone your decision to get the British passport until later because you won't ever lose your British citizenship, although you will surely lose your Indian citizenship and passport when you get the British passport.

Question: What are the specific Indian rules on this matter? Do you have to surrender your Indian passport when you naturalise as a British Citizen, or only when you get a British passport? Don't a lot of Indians have ROA in their Indian passports for this reason?

Joseph

[John]

Rogerroger was writing about British passports and asked :-

is this "stuck" time or waiting period a long time?

Armed with proof that you are British, such as a Certificate of Naturalisation, getting a British passports takes only one to two weeks.

Applicants for British passports are strongly recommended to use a "High Street Partner" of the Passport Agency to check out the passport application and then forward it. The small fee payable is well worth while paying because the Passport Agency gives priority to applications submitted using the checking service.

Your local (main, not sub) Post Office probably offers the passport application checking service.