Exceptional grounds?

[Pierrot95]

Hi all,

My first post. Thanks first for this very useful forum.

My university hasn't issued any Certificate for more than 20 years, only Provisional certificates saying that the Certificate itself will be issued later.
I've checked this on the phone with HO and they are quite clear that they won't consider a Provisional Certificate.

I was wondering if anyone has managed to have a case considered under exceptional grounds in such circunstances.
If I get a letter from the university confirming that they haven't issued certificates for such a long time, can this help?

Thanks

[drjabberwocky23]

Hi all,

My first post. Thanks first for this very useful forum.

My university hasn't issued any Certificate for more than 20 years, only Provisional certificates saying that the Certificate itself will be issued later.
I've checked this on the phone with HO and they are quite clear that they won't consider a Provisional Certificate.

I was wondering if anyone has managed to have a case considered under exceptional grounds in such circunstances.
If I get a letter from the university confirming that they haven't issued certificates for such a long time, can this help?

Thanks

Whic University is this?

It sounds crazy that they don't issue degree/diploma certificates but issue provisional certificates that state that a real certificate will be issued later. That implies that they do issue such certificates.

[Pierrot95]

Whic University is this?

It sounds crazy that they don't issue degree/diploma certificates but issue provisional certificates that state that a real certificate will be issued later. That implies that they do issue such certificates.

drjabberwocky23,

You are right that it sounds crazy, unfortunately they are crazier things that happen in my poor country. I really have no idea why they don't issue certifates. They have a project to cover the backlog that has been running for years.
I am currently on WP (post-doc) and i realise that I am lucky my employer dosen't have HO'like rules.

[Sheetal.p]

Hi,

Can you please confirm the year in which you have completed your degree?

[Pierrot95]

Hi,

Can you please confirm the year in which you have completed your degree?

Got my PhD in 2003.
On the phone I've been told that there is a problem with the statement "Certificate will be issued later". They want an actual date.

[Pierrot95]

Any idea if it is possible to find a way around this problem?

[Vanadil]

"My university hasn't issued any Certificate for more than 20 years"

Did you not consider this before joining?

What is your PhD in and how long did it take you to get?

[Pierrot95]

"My university hasn't issued any Certificate for more than 20 years"

Did you not consider this before joining?

What is your PhD in and how long did it take you to get?

Do you mean "joining" that university?
I am talking about my university in my country so didn't really have the choice. Did all my studies from the nursery to the PhD there.
The PhD took me about 5 years, and I've worked as post-doc in an international organisation and in another european country before coming to UK, if this is of any help.
I admit that in the research system, employers rely more on international publications and references than on the actual "original certificate".

[Vanadil]

Hmmmm, have you explained to the home office that there is only 1 school in your entire country? They might take it on exceptional grounds if this is the case but still probably not.

Can you please let me know what country this is as it would be interesting to know?

[Pierrot95]

Hmmmm, have you explained to the home office that there is only 1 school in your entire country? They might take it on exceptional grounds if this is the case but still probably not.

I didn't say there is only one school in my country... but you are quite right: there was only one university at that time.
I am trying to find out if there is any possibility to have a case considered under exceptional grounds.

Can you please let me know what country this is as it would be interesting to know?

Was trying to avoid giving personal information, I can just say that I am from an African French-speaking country.

[Vanadil]

My apologies, I didn’t mean to probe.

I was just thinking that it may be of some relevance as some of the more experienced members of the board may know of any arrangements or previous cases involving your country of origin.

If it is the case that you do have a PhD, you do always have the option of coming to the UK on a Tier 2 Visa, providing that you can find a sponsor. You would only need 1 years worth of technical references and it could give you up to 36 months inside the UK.

The only thing that I can really contribute unfortunately is to talk to the Home Office and fully explain your case. If it is the situation where they do say that it will not count, then I’m afraid that it does not look good.

[Vanadil]

My apologies, I didn’t mean to probe.

I was just thinking that it may be of some relevance as some of the more experienced members of the board may know of any arrangements or previous cases involving your country of origin.

If it is the case that you do have a PhD, you do always have the option of coming to the UK on a Tier 2 Visa, providing that you can find a sponsor. You would only need 1 years worth of technical references and it could give you up to 36 months inside the UK, with a view to extend it over 5 years and apply for your ILR.

The only thing that I can really contribute unfortunately is to talk to the Home Office and fully explain your case. If it is the situation where they do say that it will not count, then I’m afraid that it does not look good.

Sorry, didn't mean to quote, I miss clicked away from edit.

[Pierrot95]

My apologies, I didn’t mean to probe.

I was just thinking that it may be of some relevance as some of the more experienced members of the board may know of any arrangements or previous cases involving your country of origin.

If it is the case that you do have a PhD, you do always have the option of coming to the UK on a Tier 2 Visa, providing that you can find a sponsor. You would only need 1 years worth of technical references and it could give you up to 36 months inside the UK.

The only thing that I can really contribute unfortunately is to talk to the Home Office and fully explain your case. If it is the situation where they do say that it will not count, then I’m afraid that it does not look good.

Thanks for your contribution.
I said I am currently in the UK. I am on a 5 years Work Permit so I just wanted to move to Tier 1 so to have more freedom.

[Vanadil]

You haven;t mentioned that in this posting before? What is the reason that you cannot apply for ILR and how long left to you have on your current permit?

[Pierrot95]

You haven;t mentioned that in this posting before? What is the reason that you cannot apply for ILR and how long left to you have on your current permit?

Yes I did mention it in my second post.
"I am currently on WP (post-doc)..."

I still have a few years left on my WP, and I though it was obvious that a Tier 1 visa is better than a WP.
Are you serious you don't see the difference?

[Vanadil]

You did not mention that you had held the Work Permit 5 years. If this is the case and you have not left the country for more than 90 days at any one time during these years I am at a loss as to why you are going for a Tier 1 rather than ILR. So again I will ask "What is the reason that you cannot apply for ILR?â€

[Pierrot95]

[quote="Vanadil"]You did not mention that you had held the Work Permit 5 years. If this is the case and you have not left the country for more than 90 days at any one time during these years I am at a loss as to why you are going for a Tier 1 rather than ILR. So again I will ask "What is the reason that you cannot apply for ILR?â€

[Pierrot95]

I think the whole point is that nobody believes me here that there are some universities in the world that haven't issued an Original Certificate for years. In my country everybody knows that when you are asked to present your "original certificate", this means the provisional one, and nobody would question this.
I admit that if you have never been in that part of the world, it is difficult to understand but it is simply the truth. And I was giving details on my employment history and my current situation such that you can see it is a genuine case. However I don't think the caseworkers at the HO care about this, and I don't think my current situation has any impact on my Tier 1 application anyway. The problem would have been the same for an out-of-country application.

So my question is:
Assuming that I am telling the truth (I understand if you don't believe me), what is the procedure to follow to have my application considered under exceptional grounds?

Thanks for your insights.

[T_mahmood]

Hi,

Its true that there may be a institute that might take ages before issuing you the original degree or certificate. I can give you example of the Punjab University, Pakistan, which took about 2 years before I was issued BA degree. Even though I have repeated written request to issue me the degree as I needed it immediately. It was about 20 years back and I dont know what is the present situation there. I used to show my mark sheet as my proof for passing the BA exam.
What i would suggest you that get a letter from your institute that you have passed the exam and your certificate/degree would be issued at later stage.

I think the whole point is that nobody believes me here that there are some universities in the world that haven't issued an Original Certificate for years. In my country everybody knows that when you are asked to present your "original certificate", this means the provisional one, and nobody would question this.
I admit that if you have never been in that part of the world, it is difficult to understand but it is simply the truth. And I was giving details on my employment history and my current situation such that you can see it is a genuine case. However I don't think the caseworkers at the HO care about this, and I don't think my current situation has any impact on my Tier 1 application anyway. The problem would have been the same for an out-of-country application.

So my question is:
Assuming that I am telling the truth (I understand if you don't believe me), what is the procedure to follow to have my application considered under exceptional grounds?

Thanks for your insights.

[Pierrot95]

Hi,

Its true that there may be a institute that might take ages before issuing you the original degree or certificate. I can give you example of the Punjab University, Pakistan, which took about 2 years before I was issued BA degree. Even though I have repeated written request to issue me the degree as I needed it immediately. It was about 20 years back and I dont know what is the present situation there. I used to show my mark sheet as my proof for passing the BA exam.

Many thanks for this. At least I don't look like I am coming straight from Mars I will add that the 2 years it took you to have your BA degree issued is about the time it takes in my country to have your provisional certificate issued. And this is not a joke.

What i would suggest you that get a letter from your institute that you have passed the exam and your certificate/degree would be issued at later stage.

That is exactly what my provisional certificate says. But what the HO requires is an actual date (ddmmyyyy) when it will be issued.

-----------------

[drjabberwocky23]

Pierrot95 - it may be worth contacting an Immigration Consultant/Lawyer on this one, as it sounds rather complicated. Is there any way the university could issue with a transcript? Alternatively, if you score enough points without your PhD, could you use your Masters or Bachelors Degree to claim points instead?

[Pierrot95]

Pierrot95 - it may be worth contacting an Immigration Consultant/Lawyer on this one, as it sounds rather complicated.

drjabberwocky23,
Thanks for this. It comes back to my question, do the lawyers have a special procedure they follow for such "complicated" cases? If that is the case, I am ready to pay for the service.

Is there any way the university could issue with a transcript?

AFAIK there is no transcript for PhD, and this is not even required as evidence for "qualification with a significant research bias (frequently doctorates)" (Para. 77 of Tier 1 guidance notes)

Alternatively, if you score enough points without your PhD, could you use your Masters or Bachelors Degree to claim points instead?

Unfortunately I wouldn't score enough points without the PhD. And if I did, I would still have only the provisional certificates as evidence.

------------------

[vipul1981]

NO PRIGINAL DEGREE CERTIFICATE, NO POINTS

[Pierrot95]

NO PRIGINAL DEGREE CERTIFICATE, NO POINTS

And what about this quote from the guidance notes?

77. If the applicant cannot provide his/her original certificate for one of the reasons given above and is claiming points for a qualification with a significant research bias (frequently doctorates) he/she may not be able to provide an academic transcript. In these cases we will accept an academic reference alone. The academic reference must include all the information detailed above.

and the reasons refer to:

75. If the applicant is awaiting graduation but has successfully completed his/her degree or no longer has the certificate and the awarding institution is unable to issue a replacement, he/she should send an original academic reference from the institution that is awarding the degree together with an original academic transcript.

Technically I can consider myself as an applicant awaiting graduation, even though i've been awaiting for years.
The only issue with my application is that my original academic reference doesn't show the date that the certificate will be issued.

Your inputs are giving me a taste of how difficult my case would be so thanks for that.

----------------