Moldovan wife joining me in Holland under family directive

[spud]

Hi everybody

I'm a Brit residing in Holland and looking to bring my Moldovan wife to live with me under 2004/38/EC.

I'm currently registering the marrige with the local municiapality in preparation however the Dutch Moldovan consulate wants for her to apply for a Schengen tourist visa (out of Ukraine) to gain initial entry then its down to the IND once she's in Holland to apply for residency against the family directive.

She has in the past overstayed an Schengen visa but I don't think that will be an issue when she applies on the basis of a family member for the purpose to gain entry to apply for residency but it may take a while (they said maybe a month to six weeks)

My questions

1. Is the Dutch Modovan consulate correct that she must obtain an Schengen tourist visa even though the purpose of travel to Holland is to gain residency.

2. I note from the Schengen boarder guards handbook if she got to Amsterdam airport (with me) and she can prove the relationship and she's not deemed a threat to security they must give her a visa. Anybody got an idea if KLM out of Ukraine (or maybe Russia.. no direct flights from Moldiova) would listen and let us on the plan in the first place?

Cheers

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I would clearly put on the visa application form that she is the "wife of an EU citizen joining him to live in netherlands". The visa is only to get her on the plane and into the country. At that point she has the right to stay as long as you are there. You should then apply for a Residence Card, which should be issued pretty quickly.

Are you planning to travel together? If so you should also carry your marriage certificate.

[spud]

Cheers directive /2004/38/EC, we are going to apply for the Schengen visa (90 days) its very clear on the online form that for an EU family member many parts of the form do not need to be filled in so it will be clear to them, also reason for travel will be "for residancy application under EU family directive".

I'm going to Ukraine Dutch embassy with my wife for the application and yes we will have the wedding cert with notary stamp from Moldovian goverment office (no translation as it's in Romanian and the Dutch embassy just require translation to any of the EU languges) plus all proof of my residancy and yes I will be hopfully be with her on the flight in to Holland..

Was talking to the embassy and its clear still so much confussion (hence my trip to be with her during the application around the directive) BUT they were really nice and helpful on the phone so here's hoping .. will let you know how we get on...

[86ti]

we are going to apply for the Schengen visa (90 days)

The directive allows for six months of processing time for the residence permit. I do not know how long it takes in the Netherlands or what their implementation of the directive says but check carefully if a C type visa is enough and what would happen if the confirmation of your status would take longer. In some countries the non-EEA spouse would have to leave and await the outcome from outside the Schengen area.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You do not need to travel with her, though it is always more fun to do so. She just needs to be very clear of her rights as spouse of an EU citizen.

[spud]

Thanks again 86ti and directive/2004/38/EC.

I will check what will happen is the processing takes longer then the 90 day visit visa.

We have a printout of the directive summary and the Schengen boarder guard handbook so I think we are ok on our rights also I went to Amsterdam and chatted to some immigration guards on duty who under aknowledged they were aware of the directive and that they would act accordingly which is nice to know (just hope they are on shift but yep more fun to travel with her so I will be but also as I said some confusion at the embassy. They do advertise the ability to process the visa same day, but also another person stated there will be an interview and maybe a two week wait.. I think the last person was confused about an EU family member making an application and a straight forward application from Moldova..

I will also put my hand up that 5 years ago my spouse did overstay an Schengen visa out of France (I didn't see the French boarder guard mark her entry but irrelevent) she in fact overstayed 4.5 years then left the Schengen area without being recorded or incident (nobody looked at her passport) she in the time of overstaying didn't do anything illigal BUT I suspect a hit on the Schengen database. From what I read I'm not sure for a EU family memeber this will be a major issue but maybe wrong so want to be there at the time of the application... any advise with this aspect?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

An previous overstay should not generally be an issue. That is a minor issue which can not interfere with free movement of an EU citizen and their non-EU family.

Can I ask how long you have been married?

Note that the length of time of the visa is not important. Even if it is a one day schengen visa, that is just as good as a 90 day visa or a one year visa. It is only relevant for the initial ENTRY into Holland. (Except if you really want to travel outside of schengen before the Residence Card is issued).

[spud]

Directive/2004/38/EC,

Cheers again.

We have been married for 5 months ... would that be an issue?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

National governments can, if they suspect a marriage of convience, ask for additional evidence that the marriage is real. By default it should not be an issue.

[fysicus]

spud,

I would almost certainly also arrange a translation of your marriage certificate, even if (as you write) the Dutch embassy accepts it in Romanian for the purpose of a visa.
Once in Holland you will need it from time to time and local authorities only accept documents in Dutch, English, French and German (still a lot more generous than the British authorities who only accept documents in English, or sometimes in Welsh )
Perhaps you can apply for a visa at the embassy of another Schengen state that happens to have an embassy in Moldova; at least it is worth enquiring about that

[MAKUSA]

You also would need to have Both your birth certificates and marriage certificate legalised. Her previous overstaying issue would not be a problem. Just out of curiousity, are the Dutch still insistent on your wages being 1,400 + in order to have your spouse resident because i believe that this was the case in the past.

[spud]

First-Class Moron she has her birth certificate authenticated already will see if I need mine as I already have sofi number (tax ref), social security and have been registered with the local gov for a while now in Holland thanks for the pointer though.

Fysicus will check out where to go for the Dutch translation to be prepared just in case. Ref an local Scengen state embassy in Moldova it is of course a valid point but just feel with my residancy in Holland and associated docs it will give a little "extra" if there's any problems with the application.. also being selfesh there's loads of direct flights from Holland to Kiev but none to Moldova so in fact makes my life easier.. but the poor wife has to endure a nine hr coach trip with check points in Transnistia and of course Ukraine... anyways flights booked, application planned to go in the Monday... crossing fingers I will be able to come back with her Tuesday

Directive/2004/38/EC, I will be arriving with her at the embassy with a big "book" of evidence, stays in Moldova, wedding pics etc etc to hopefully cover that aspect..

[spud]

Well in Kiev waiting in the next few hours for a descion from the embassy on my wifes Schengen application.

No issue on submission around proof of marrige just the marrige cert
was needed. However the focus turned to my residence status in Holland as I don't have a sticker in my passport, however this is not mandatary also I'm on the IND database having resgistered with the local manisupality, I have a sofi number, dutch bank account, dutch mortgage tax return ect ect all of which I handed over so not sure how it will pan out

HOWEVER I was stupid because the directive does not state I have to be a resident anyway, as an EU citizen just visting Holland I would be exercising my rights under the treating of having my wife accompanying me..

I tried to call the emabassy to talk to the lady to who I submitted the application to remind her of this but couldn't get through so left a message... we will see

[spud]

visa refused because I dont currently have the Dutch residancy stamp in my passport... MY OWN fault for not arguing the case..

In holland the application for residancy for verification again community law can only be done in country there is no process for like a special visa to gain entry to then apply... the only thing out there is a Schengen torist visa.

So they have linked the two together incorreclty. The ability to exercise my treaty rights as an EU citizen for free movment along with my spouse is irrlevleant to a desire to gain residancy..

The embassy says though they are refering my application to the foreign minastry as they did see my point... i.e what if I wanted to go on holiday to Spain and bring my wife.. which form would she need... aka a Shengen tourist visa... and would I need to formally have resideancy in Spain ...of course not..

So for others maybe we will get it corrected indeed I will get a lawyer on the case.. for me though its an oppointment on the 17th to get the dam sticker which I was going to do before we put in the application for residancy for my wife.. so only a week to wait

[86ti]

The embassy says though they are refering my application to the foreign minastry as they did see my point... i.e what if I wanted to go on holiday to Spain and bring my wife.. which form would she need... aka a Shengen tourist visa... and would I need to formally have resideancy in Spain ...of course not..

At least the embassy admits that they don't really know how to handle this case. You are right of course that you don't have to be resident to be able to bring over your wife.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

visa refused because I dont currently have the Dutch residancy stamp in my passport... MY OWN fault for not arguing the case..

I would strongly suggest you immediately get in touch with Solvit. http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

There is NO requirement that you have a Dutch residency stamp in your passport for them to issue the visa. You would not have one, for example, if you were initially going to the Netherlands with her.

How long have you been in the Netherlands? Have you applied for a Residence Card?

[spud]

In Kiev you submit your application from 9 - 11 then from 12 - 1 a general visa hotline is open then you collect your visa /docs at 4.

So on submission we had the dance about the residence stamp. I have been in Holland for 4 years but never bothered to get the stamp, however knowing that I was going to go for verification against community law for residency for my wife I do have an appointment with the IND in the next week or two (but I have mortgage, tax code etc etc)

Anyways we submitted and they said without the stamp no way, I made my argument but stupidly around the fact the stamp is not mandatory... they said they would double check..

Then at 12 I phoned them and they said stamp required come back when you have it.. I did contine the argument saying if I go to France and want to bring my wife with me which visa form would she fill in and they had to say an Shengen so I expanded the argument "so do I need to have formal residency in France for them to allow us to visit as tourists?" Of course not .. but they didn't seem to budge and said to collect the documents without the visa at four..

This is when I updated this blog.

So we went to collect and low and behold a 90 day mutli (we only applied for a single shot)...

All credit to them their process clearly stated they wanted the stamp (more a mvv process) but my argument did in fact stick in their head and one of them (a very polite and nice lady) made a call to their foreign office and discovered that their process needs updating..

So we are in Holland and over the next few weeks we will apply for residancy together.. only other thing on entering Schipol the immigration guys said we should have applied for a D Shengen not the C we have (can't remember the differance right now but the IND before just said a normal tourist visa).. and the guy just wanted to check the wedding certificate.. (by the way at the embassy they only wanted to see the wedding cert and my passport that's it)..

So I hope for anybody else looking for a visa under the communitay law from the Dutch embassy in Kiev that will not have a problem.. (again got to say the Dutch seem so pragmatic say compared with the UK)

BIG THANKS TO ALL OF YOU OFFERING ADVISE..

[JBMS1952]

Hi everybody

I'm a Brit residing in Holland and looking to bring my Moldovan wife to live with me under 2004/38/EC.

I'm currently registering the marrige with the local municiapality in preparation however the Dutch Moldovan consulate wants for her to apply for a Schengen tourist visa (out of Ukraine) to gain initial entry then its down to the IND once she's in Holland to apply for residency against the family directive. She needs to apply for a facilitated Schengen C-visa. She needs to use a Schengen C-visa application form but in fact she applies for an entry-visa (MVV in the Dutch immigration system).

She has in the past overstayed an Schengen visa but I don't think that will be an issue when she applies on the basis of a family member for the purpose to gain entry to apply for residency but it may take a while (they said maybe a month to six weeks) Since you, as a British citizen, live in The Netherlands, you –indeed- are a “citizen of the Union” in accordance with article 2 of Directive 2004. This automatically gives your wife the right of entry and settlement. The fact that, in the past she overstayed may not hinder her to claim her EU rights under Directive 2004. But, yes, the visa application process takes some time. Four to six weeks is not too bad.

My questions

1. Is the Dutch Modovan consulate correct that she must obtain an Schengen tourist visa even though the purpose of travel to Holland is to gain residency. Yes. See above.

2. I note from the Schengen boarder guards handbook if she got to Amsterdam airport (with me) and she can prove the relationship and she's not deemed a threat to security they must give her a visa. Anybody got an idea if KLM out of Ukraine (or maybe Russia.. no direct flights from Moldiova) would listen and let us on the plan in the first place? If you show the proper article in Directive 2004, you may be able to convince KLM staff. In order to do so, your wife needs to be able to show a copy of your “bewijs van inschrijving”, issued by your Dutch local government (gemeente), also (if possible) a copy of your “uittreksel burgerlijke stand” stating that your marriage is registered in The Netherlands; and your marriage certificate. Ask the civil servant in your municipality for these documents in four languages. These multi-language documents make it possible to avoid the need for translations.