Nationality Application form and documentation question

[desperado]

hey desperado
how do you travel when you apply for the british passport. i mean you ahev sent in your one and only indian passport and are waiting for your british passport, so yo uare stuck in the UK till then, correct? is this "stuck" time or waiting period a long time?

It is a waiting period in UK until I get my british passport. I have sent my original indian passport, citizenship certificate when I applied for british passport. The waiting time is only 2 weeks so its not that bad I suppose.

question on indian citizenship,
i understand that you have to surrender the indian citizenship when you acuire british citizenhip. that is what is on my passport.

sodo we havr to then reapply for a new overseas indian citizenship or have there been a change in the rules and you can be an equal indian citizen?

As I'm aware india does not allow dual nationality. So we have to surrender our indian passport. But recently the indian government introduced overseas indian citizen, which is more or less like indian citizen. You have all the rights except the following:

1. You cannot vote
2. You cannot stand in any form of election
3. You cannot take up any government jobs

Other then that you are allowed to invest, start business, live in india forever etc

also recently i came across an articl on bbc's site which spoke about this elaborate test of britishness ,weher you got to answer questions like what do you do if you spill some one else's pint. (questions out of this 150 page book), is that exam gonna kick in lnext year or did you have to take the exam too?

I didn't have to take any britishness exam. I think they have plans to introduce those exams later this or next year.

[desperado]

Joseph,

To be honest I wasn't aware about any of these until I read your post. It is too late for me because I have already applied for my british passport but still it could help others.

As you have said not having a british passport has also got its own disadvantage. Especially for me its a big disadvantage because I have plans for US, Australia and europe visit. Couldn't be bothered standing in long queue to get schegen visa and other visas. Also everytime I want a visa I have to ask my employer for letter, take all those bank statements etc. Its a pain but with british passport all you need to do is buy a flight ticket and you are off.

Question: What are the specific Indian rules on this matter? Do you have to surrender your Indian passport when you naturalise as a British Citizen, or only when you get a British passport? Don't a lot of Indians have ROA in their Indian passports for this reason?

I have to surrender my indian passport the moment I get my british passport. I think. Overseas indian citizenship is not that bad. I can start my own business, do investment, buy property etc. I cannot vote or stand in the election for MP or take up any government jobs. I don't do that anyway when I was in india, so overseas indian citizenship is much better for me and it will be for most of the indians. I think

[rogerroger]

hey
has the "Certificate of Entitlement for the Right of Abode (ROA)" been available even in the 80's?

also i understand that obtaining a british passport is a two stage process
1) obtain certificate of naturalisation & attend ceremony
2) go to the main post office and apply for a passport

you can get the ROA thing after step 1

or you would have to surrender your indian passport after step 2



hey desperado, how easy is it to get an overseas indian passport? i think with punjab and some other states, it is difficult getting your passport extended because you got to go through this enquiry process, i have been given a one year passport before they do this enquiry(though i have been travelling on indian passports for over 2 decades) so i am a bit circumspect about obtaining PIOs and overseas indian passports

[basis]

The dual nationality for India is kept on hold indefinitely at the moment.

“THE OVERSEAS INDIAN CITIZENSHIP (OIC) SCHEME HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD TILL FURTHER ORDERS. NO APPLICATIONS FOR GRANT OF OIC MAY BE FILED. REVISED PROCEDURE AND FORMS SHALL BE POSTED IN DUE COURSE.”

http://www.answers.com/topic/multiple-citizenship
http://www.mha.nic.in/citi.htm
http://www.immihelp.com/nri/dual.html

An important question is when do you loose Indian citizenship -

a) on attending the Citizenship Ceremony
b) on getting UK passport

[John]

I shall not start to get involved in Indian nationality law but in case it helps .... a person becomes British at the moment that their Certificate is handed to them during the Citizenship Ceremony.

Needless to say there is no requirement under British law for a British Citizen to actually hold a British passport. It is reckoned that only about 70% to 80% of Britons holds a valid passport, but not doing so does not make them any less British.

[rogerroger]

thanks for the responses guys

hey to get ROA do you need to attend the citizenship ceremony?

i guess after you attend the citizenship ceremony, you are by all means a british citizen. and the passport is just a document which is your right as a british citizen, correct?

i think the passport is only required as a travel document. else everything is covered by your bills, license, correct?

in that case, i think one needs to surrender there indian passport as soon as they do step a).

i have known cases where the second citizenship is not declared and they have availed of rights as an indian citizen while in india(attending university in india, etc...)

any news on the PIO, has that been put on hold too?
why have they put the iOIC on hold? is it because they are amending the rules, there was some news that all citizens of indian origin excepting b'deshis and pakistanis can claim OIC.

[User]

Hi All,

I had attended my citizenship ceremony this morning and i have received my british naturalisation certificate

It was a very grand experience. It was for less than an hour in total.

In brief, things that happened were:

1. Snacks and refreshments.
2. Formal welcome by the registrar
3. Formal welcome by a represenatative of HO/the Queen
4. A brief about Manchester city and its pride
5. Swearing Oath / Affirmation
6. Pledge of loyalty

After that I recd. my naturalisation certificate and also took some photographs.

Since the "Place of birth" was wrongly spelt in my certificate (although it was correct in my current passport and citizenship application), i was advised to send off the certificate to HO for getting it corrected.

I was told that this correction could take about 3 weeks

Anyway, I will be sending it off for correction tomorrow with a cover letter explaing what is wrongly spelt, attaching the evidence for the correct spelling therby proving that it was HO's mistake.

Looking forward to get my British passport in another 6 weeks in all (3 weeks for correction + 1 week for getting the counter signature for my passport application + 2 weeks to get teh passport in hand)

Will keep you all updated.

I am a British citizen from today

Ta!

regards.

[John]

User, congratulations .... British Citizen!

Don't forget to get yourself added to the Electoral Register, unless of course you are already on it as a Commonwealth Citizen.

[desperado]

Congratulations user... Enjoy!!!

[desperado]

hey desperado, how easy is it to get an overseas indian passport? i think with punjab and some other states, it is difficult getting your passport extended because you got to go through this enquiry process, i have been given a one year passport before they do this enquiry(though i have been travelling on indian passports for over 2 decades) so i am a bit circumspect about obtaining PIOs and overseas indian passports

I don't know how easy it is..but high commision of india, london website has got forms for downloading and detailed description. It says it may take upto 5 months to get a overseas indian citizenship.

If I want to apply for PIO card then I have to apply in india

I'm confused really confused now I'm planning to go to india sep/oct and it looks like I have to apply for a tourist visa or something to visit india

Also it looks like I have to register in a local british consulate after I arrive in india.... I'm planning to get married sometime early next year and looks like I have to go through plenty of formalities... didn't expect all these formalities.

Don't know wat to do....any advice guys??

[User]

Cheers Desperado!

And yeah - if you need to apply for a PIO card, you can apply from the UK.

Link is here: http://www.hcilondon.net/visa/pio-card.html#app

Hope this helps.

Ta!

regards.

[basis]

Yes PIO can be applied either in Indian Commissions / Embassies outside India. Normally it takes 15 working days. Process is extremely simple - download the PIO form from hcilondon website http://www.hcilondon.net/visa/pio-card.html#app


. Put together the two supportings they need (earler passport, current passport etc.), 4 photos, filled in form and fees. That's it - go to HCI London office - for PIO there is usually no queue and they will not even keep your UK passport. They will photocopy all docs and return the originals (all of them) then and there. Wait for 15 working days and go for collection or ask them to send by Spl Dlv.

Option 2 is - If you are in great hurry just apply for visitor visa and then you can get a PIO in india as well.

Even PIO card holders need to register with FRRO in India if their stay exceeds 180 days in a single trip. however, it is needed once in lifetime only for PIO cardholders to register with FRRO.

The PIO cards are valid for 15 years or to the extent of validity of your (UK) passport. A few yrs back they were valid for 20 years. From benefits perspective PIO is no different to IOC (Indian Overseas Citizenship). in fact I remember having read an article by an immigration Expert that PIO is better than IOC.

------ Sorry didn't mean to make this an Indian Immigration board but thought it may be useful 'first hand and recently experienced' info for many board members. If inappropriate please delete the post or just ask me and I will delete ----------[/url]

[desperado]

Cheers User and Basic.

That's the exact info I was looking for. So PIO is a card is it? and not a stamp in the passport then? So I have to carry the card along with my british passport whenever I go to india? My apologise for making this post specific to india...but again it will help others too.

[rogerroger]

hey do they do a police clearence for PIOs too?

with states in the disturbed areas lke punjab, they have to do this police enquiry for new indian passports, so i am a bit more circumspect about PIO's and OIC's.

do you think they do police enquiries for PIO's and OIC's?

[Kayalami]

It might be worth noting that where dual nationality is held (IMHO irrespective of whether overseas etc) the person in question when physically present in one of the countries may not rely on the protection of the diplomatic post of the other country as per norm in international law. He/she is considered to fall under the initial country's laws. This is an issue often related to military service. Where judicial standards are well developed in both countries then this may be less of an issue - this may not be the case in all jurisdictions. The same dilemma raises itself vis a vis the revokation of British Citizenship pursuant to such not leaving someone stateless. Given the wide ranging powers of the Home Secretary on the matter and pursuant to ongoing developments in the Immigration System I am unable to comment any further on this last point.

[User]

Hi,

PIO card does not give you any form of Indian nationaity status. Its just a status to let you travel and enjoy your stay in India without any visas, enjoying all the benefits enjoyed by Indian citizens who are NRI's.

So taking a PIO card will still keep you as a British national only and hence you will be eligible for all protection as a British citizen even if you hold an Indian PIO card.

Ta.

regards.

[desperado]

Hello all,

Just want to let you know that I got my passport today. Took john's advice and used the local main post office's Passport Check & Send service and received my british passport in less then two weeks

Next milestone is to get PIO card (Indian 15 year visa) and followed by overseas indian citizenship.

Will still be around this forum sharing my experience in work permits, ILR , british citizenship, Indian PIO card experience (which i yet to gain any experience)

thank you all...

[User]

Congrats Desperado!

If only they did not do this silly mistake in my palce of birth in my naturalisation certificate...

I called up the HO nationality group, and the person there confirmed to me that corrections are taking around 6-8 weeks

So i will have to wait for another 7 weeks to get my corrected certificate and apply for a passport then. Hopefully the passport agency won't make any mistakes in my passport

regards.


Ta!

[John]

desperado, that's great, the way the passport came back so quickly.

Another good "advert" for the Post Office passport application checking service!

[desperado]

John & User, thank you...

I called up the HO nationality group, and the person there confirmed to me that corrections are taking around 6-8 weeks

6-8 weeks!!! it doesn't even take that long to process new citizenship application...does it? I don't think it will take long...maybe 6-8 weeks is the maximum time. On the most positive side...you are a already a british citizen !

[User]

Cheers Desperado! Yes i am a british citizen now That's the only fact that keeps me going with this ridiculous delay that is happening until i get my british pasport in hand.

Its another approx. 5+ weeks in the best case (imagine what the worst case delay may be), to see my passport in hand. I can't plan any travels until then... that's the only hard bit.

I wonder what to do if i have to travel before that 5+ weeks time. The irony is that with my earlier passport + UK ILR i could atleast travel easily, now with this delay, my travel plans are simply impossible without a british travel document.

I am a british citizen without a travel document in hand, and i have already lost my earlier home country citizenship. What a mess!!!!!!
That simply puts me nowhere!

Anyway... got to bite the bullet! No other go!

regards.

Ta!

[Joseph]

User,
Sorry to hear about your recent delay. But surely you can still travel on your existing passport and ILR while you await your corrected naturalisation certificate? Even in the case of India you don't have to lose your Indian passport until you get the British one. If you don't tell them yet that you naturalised, how would anyone know?
Joseph

[Joseph]

Desperado,
Congratulations on your final step of getting a British Passport. One question for you: After you submitted your non-British passport to the UK Passport Agency, did they cancel your ILR that was stamped in it?
Joseph

[sfgirl]

For what's its worth, my ILR is still intact on my non-British passport despite gaining citizenship and a passport here.

[Joseph]

sfgirl,
Have you ever used your non-British passport to enter the UK after you got your British passport?
It seems that, unlike other countries like the USA, the UK doesn't require their citizens to use only British passport to enter the UK.
Joseph