NEWS from Doncaster!

[JhonnyECU]

Hi Folks,

thank you Bani and Lightbringer for your suggestions on my last thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=4364

well, was out of town last week, making a documentary for the austrian tv about the plan colombia fumigations in the ecuadorian jungle and came back yesterday to see that the decision letter had finally arrived last thrusday the 23rd. it said:

Academic Achievement - 15 points awarded.

With reference to paragraph 2/7 Annex C of the HSMP guidance instructions, you will note the qualifications have to be the equivalent to the recognised British standard of Bachelor's Master's or PhD to be awarded the respective points for each level of qualification.

Unfortunately, when assessing awards, we act solely on guidance given by UK NARIC. UK NARIC are the only body from whom we can accept equivalency information and as such, we were unable to assess your Master's award as Master's equivalent. Unfortunately we were therefore only able to award 15 points in this category for your Bachelor's award.

Work Experience - 25 points awarded.

The points were awarded in this section.

Achievement in Chosen Field - 0 points awarded.

We were not satisfied that the evidence provided demonstrated a 'significant achievement' as outlined in the HSMP guidance. With reference to paragraph 34/39 Annex C of the HSMP guidance instructions you will note that to be considered a significant achievement we would normally expect the evidence provided to demonstrate a breaktrough in your field of expertise, have contributed significantly to the development of your field, and be acknowledged by your peers. From the evidence provided, we did not consider that the achievement illustrated met the significant achievement criteria of the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme.


ok, now these are the strange points i have to discuss about this letter.:

1. the paragraphs 1 to 6 belong to the ' Young Person Assessment' section. so i dont see WHY my caseworker decided to refer to paragraphs 2,3,4,5 and 6 regarding the Educational Background sections.

2. same goes with the Significant Achievement paragraphs 34 / 39. paragraph 34 belongs to past earnings! are they even thinking when they type this ULTRA important letters which compromise our ENTIRE future plans and emotional stability??

3. paragraph 37 says

Examples of significant achievement could be:
•A breakthrough in your field of expertise, e.g. a piece of original published research that has been acknowledged by those in you field of work (evidence of this acknowledgement should be provided)
•A recognised artistic achievement
•A lifetime achievement award from an industry body
•An invention, which is likely to or has provided commercially successful.

it is CLEAR that it has to be ONLY ONE of these, not jsut a breaktrhough in my field that can directly be understood from her letter. this means, it is enough to have JUST a recognised artistic achievement, right?

ANYWAYS, i have some news from doncaster. i phoned my caseworker early this morning to her direct number and a guy told me she was away for the whole week. however i asked him some questions and he politely answer the following info:

1. it does NOT matter if i pass the 28 days deadline. they "understand those delays with the post services" especially in countries like mine. so this gives me a WHOLE week to prepare my review!!

2. he also said that i should wait until next monday, speak directly to my caseworker and fax her my review letter.

3. He said she is the only one authorized to check my case BUT that another caseworker will be reviewing my documents.

4. he said it would take between 4 - 6 weeks for the new caseworker to assess my application and it would NOT make any difference if i ask for an urgent treatment. he sarcastically said "EVERYONE wants urgent treatment!!".

5. i explained my NARIC dilemma to him and he said "it would definitely help your case if you have someone in NARIC inform that (explain below) directly".

6. he said there are hundreds of caseworkers and he has no idea who would be dealing with my application.

7. he said i could send any questions to the general email form hsmp team

8. he asked for my reference number so he could "update this conversation in their system". i asked again about "not having problems with those 28 days" he said "that is not a problem". since he knew who i was i asked for his full name. now i have another source i can quote on my review letter.

so taht was all in that conversation!

any ideas, suggestions, comments, critics, etc are MORE MORE MORE than welcome.

thank you for your support

best

jhonny

[JhonnyECU]

Hi Folks,

i think the letter is pretty much ready, dont you think?

are there any other suggestions you could give me?

would it help if i wait for my last caseworker to come back to her office on monday 4th of july, call her, fax my review letter, and luckily have her check my case alongside with me over the telephone?

is that possible?

thanks for the advice, tips and suggestions

jhonny

[Kotiara]

The letter looks very convincing. Good luck with your review man. A few takeaways from your post relevant to all of us.

1. There are hundreds of caseworkers.
2. They have software that lets any of them pull out the status of any case. They also seem to log all application status requests made over the phone. Threfore, I think one should avoid calling them too frequently, although it's ok to ask for an update from time to time.3. It's possible to talk to a caseworker directly about your case.
3. Some caseworkers do not spend enough time to read and understand the applications. If in doubt, it's easier and safer for them to decline to give points.
4. Straightforward and consice applications seem to have much better chances. Claiming points for significant/exceptional achievements is definitely not straightforward.

[Junior0300]

Hi Jhonny,

•A breakthrough in your field of expertise, e.g. a piece of original published research that has been acknowledged by those in you field of work (evidence of this acknowledgement should be provided)
•A recognised artistic achievement
•A lifetime achievement award from an industry body
•An invention, which is likely to or has provided commercially successful.


As you said, if you qualify for any one of the above you can get the points but I believe BY WEIGHT they are considering them to be of equal level, which means "Artistic Achievement" should be recognised by some very reputable organisation.

If you look at the other two you can get the idea what I am trying to explain here - Lifetime award from industry and Any Invention, commercially successful.

Secondly, if your degree is not recongised by Naric then it would be very difficult for a reviewer to challenge the original decision. It could be even difficult for a fresh case worker.

BUT you never know - I really wish you the best of your luck!

[lightbringer]

I think you should wait until Monday to speak to your caseworker. Who knows how it can tunr out, try to walk her through your case may be...

I have nothing to add, your letter seems perfect. Lets try it out.

Take my best wishes, I beleave you will finally get it done

[Impact]

hi! Jhonny,

I like your letter. l think they will pay more attention this time and actually go through the whole application pack.

Good Luck!!!!

[JhonnyECU]

Hi Folks,

Thanks Kotiara, Junior, Lightbringer and Impact for your suggestions, comments.

Well, i just phone UK NARIC and spoke directly to the person who assessed my masters back in April. After explainign her the importance of getting these further ten points in my application to be accepted, she said "i will be more than happy to explain your situation, to the caseworker". i was VERY VERY polite with her, trying to sound concerned but not crying on the telephone kind of concerned, you know.

the ONE thing that is KILLING me now is the contradiction found between what she emphazised "it is their (hsmp team) decision, we are only here to provide a 'general' advice". then she continued "they know we are JUST giving them advice and that THEY can decide"...

i was in shock after hearing these words...i didnt know if it would be so 'magical' as for the caseworker to take this direct UK NARIC suggestion into consideration while reviewing my case...

after a few moments after hanging up the phone with her, i rang my caseworker to see what she would say aobut these news...another girl picked up the phone. it was amazing the difference in the attitude between the uk naric girl and this hsmp team girl...anyways, i was still very polite and gentle in my words. she did not ask for my ref number or name, just answered my questions directly. she said "it would be a FRESH caseworker who will review your case", "caseworkers can ONLY act based on what uk naric tell us", "we cannot take any verbal evidence into consideration, it has to be written evidence"...

so after this conversation, my scenario seems a bit confusing...

even though the uk naric senior officer told me (3 times) that the caseworkers CAN make their independent decision, this caseworker is telling me that they ONLY follow uk naric instructions...who should i believe? i can demonstrate, through my masters certificate which detail the duration, structure and content of this course, that i this Masters COULD be validated as comparable to a British standards...however the spanish ministry of education has not fully incorporated this qualification into their system (it could be anytime between now and 2010 said uk naric!! yikes)

i will wait until monday to speak with my caseworker, ask her to give me any kind of advice, and more importantly give here this uk naric suggestion that the caseworkers CAN actually decide on cases like mine...does this make sense for you dear members? would that be feasible? am i jsut fighting over a dream it would never come true?

please advice

jhonny

[rella]

Jhonny,

Would the woman whom you spoke with at NARIC, be willing to put it all in writing, so you could have it as another thing to send with your letter to the caseworker on Monday? You might even be able to arrange a 3-way conference call -- if you can get the caseworker to committ to a time to go over the fax with you.

[JhonnyECU]

Hi Rella and all,

there is no 3way calling from my country

adding ONE page of new evidence would cost me 315 pounds, and in my case i think there is a way around it...

what i think is that i could clearly emphazise on my review letter about this 'uk narics suggestion to decide on my case' and provide her name and number so my current caseworker can verify this on monday, and 'update' my file on their system...would that be possible? during my last conversation with my caseworker, this was kind of what we agreed on...that is why i MUST wait until i speak to her again before faxing anything, right?.

this uk naric woman even said that "ANY university, employer, caseworker, etc HAS FULL right to decide that a degree is valid or not". well, i am quoting evidence that thsi master was fully recognized by the german immigration authorities and employers and EVEN some potential employers in the UK are willing to accept this degree, would taht help?

the way this woman in naric presents my case is very encouraging to believe my caseworker will be the one who does the call at the end...at least this is what she told over the phone a few moments ago!

the one good thing about this type of 'freedom to decide' on some type of evidence, is that even if this decision is changed and i get approved, the caseworker has entire legal evidence (through the uk naric assessment which is part of my application) to prove any of his/her supervisors that uk naric highly recommends to use their discretion with my masters degree.

on the other hand, this type of freedom will never be found in other sections like the amount of time an applicant has worked for such and such company or the past earnign quantity. THOSE are not subjective areas...

but now, i have problems with the only two subjective areas, significant achievement, and this you-are-the-one-who-decide-kind-of-uknaric-response about my masters, right?

why is it that even if uk naric highly recommends the caseworkers to use their discretion while accepting my masters degree, there are some caseworkers who would say "no, i wont do accept this master, unless naric tells me that in writing!" ??????

anyways, thanks for reading and helping me with some feedback...

any ideas, comments, objections and blessing thoughts are welcome!

havent heard that much from any moderator lately...are you guys mad at me for being so persistant?

cheers


jhonny

[JhonnyECU]

Hi all,

Thank you for your kind suggestions about what i should do regarding my review. i have received LOTS of great help, i do owe you a lot!

well, i am glad to inform that todays conversation with my caseworker went just excellent!

she was in SUCH a good mood. it is amazing what vacations can do to human beings...she just came back to the office today.

according to her, we will see what the new caseworker does with all the notes she has added to my review request. i faxed this review letter while i was talking with here and she confirmed reception!

according to her "it was clearly written explaining the situation".

she said:

i think you have a strong case

it is not very often we have this kind of problem with naric. i have never seen such a thing!

we will call this person in uk naric

i have updated this info in your file in our system

i know you had call me last week

your case will be relocated to a new caseworker within 1 to 4 weeks and then it takes 1-2 days to make a decision

other uk academic references would not make a difference, we listen to naric

over 28 days is just fine

caseworkers do not call to ask for more info but they might contact you regarding the 'nature' of your case

i have read your letter quickly and passed it to the hsmp team for relocation. i dont have any quesitons about it, it is clear!

there are 'some' people who get accepted in review, it depends on the caseworker...

THAT was it for that conversation. i just summarized it here. she was very helpful, even with a 'smile' on her face. thank god she was soooo happy!

SOOO that was it my dear friends.

now, i have done EVERYTHING i could in order to get accepted...

i have to wait and see if the new caseworker (checked by a manager, she said) corrects this decision.

hope this is the way God wants me to go...He knows how hard i have tried so far!! i am HAPPY for the first time in months...my hope is very high...just keep myself very optimistic and positive about getting accepted!

any comments, questions are like ALWAYS welcome

thanks

jhonny

[Korben Dallas]

Man,

it was a great start of the week!
be everything well with you, buddy!

[bani]

good luck! i hope you get approved. just frustrating to hear that the first caseworker now thinks it's a strong case but didn't approve it when it was in her hands (though the NARIC issue wasn't straightforward enough). i hope her notes on the case will help you.