EEA - Retain Rights of Residence

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:26 pm

Sorry - Posted it in the Wrong Section earlier!!

Hello All,
I have a query that I needed to confirm. Basically I was married to my wife who is an EEA national, I was married for 3 years before we filed for divorce. We have been living togethor in the UK for all of this period. She and I have been working throughout. I have letters and other proof of us co-habiting for the last 2 years +. She has agreed to co-operate and give me her EEA Resident card (green in colour) as a form of Id. She is applying for her PR at the same time, so her passport will be with the HO. My questions are:

1. The EEA resident card has expired now, would that be an issue for the home office, would they still consider this as a valid ID? (the card expired about 3-4 months back)
2. She might not give me her passport, as she has moved on and doesnt want that I should bother her any more.Would me submitting the proof of co-habiting and the Resident card be ample proof for me to retain my Rights of Residence?
3. I am not sending my Passport at this point in time as I need to travel frequently on work and sending my passport can be a show stopper. Bit would send it once I am asked to submit the passport.
4. I do have a letter from her employer confirming that she was working during and over the period of the divorce as well, so that should count for something as well.
5. Also does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer I can consult to smoothen out the whole process.

Thanks in advance for all your help and valuable advise. I am sure anything would be helpful at this point in time.

Cheers!
Bob

thsths · Post by **thsths** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:50 am

bobobo wrote:I have a query that I needed to confirm. Basically I was married to my wife who is an EEA national, I was married for 3 years before we filed for divorce. We have been living togethor in the UK for all of this period. She and I have been working throughout. I have letters and other proof of us co-habiting for the last 2 years +. She has agreed to co-operate and give me her EEA Resident card (green in colour) as a form of Id. She is applying for her PR at the same time, so her passport will be with the HO.

Well, the UKBAÂ likes to make this very difficult. They will want an ID (and a registration certificate may not be sufficient), and they want proof that the EEAÂ citizen was working from the beginning up to the decree absolute. The law does not require either, but it can be quite tedious to assert your right in court, especially if you are denied an appeal and you have to go for a judicial review.

You should certainly mention that her passport is with the UKBA, giving the tracing number of the envelop it was sent in (plus name +Â date of birth). That may get around the problem of getting her passport.

3. I am not sending my Passport at this point in time as I need to travel frequently on work and sending my passport can be a show stopper. Bit would send it once I am asked to submit the passport.

No problem, but do you have a valid visa or are a non-visa national.

4. I do have a letter from her employer confirming that she was working during and over the period of the divorce as well, so that should count for something as well.

That should be sufficient. It would be nice to have the national insurance number, too, so that the UKBA can check the contributions.

5. Also does anyone know of a good immigration lawyer I can consult to smoothen out the whole process.

Personally IÂ would do this myself - assuming you are reasonably organised. But consulting with a lawyer about the details may be a good idea. Things change if your application is refused, then you have to react quickly (28 days, I think) and correctly.

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:53 am

thanks thsths for your comments. I just need to confirm a few things:

1. I have some payslips and a letter from her employer saying that she has been working there since 2002. up until the decree absolute.
2. I just wanted to confirm will her EEA Resident Card act as an ID, It is somethign that was issued by the Home Office itself.
3. As far as my visa is concerend I still have a year and a half on my Resident permit so i should be covered for up to that time.

Hope this makes my position a little clearer.

Many Thanks

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:51 pm

bobobo wrote:thanks thsths for your comments. I just need to confirm a few things:

1. I have some payslips and a letter from her employer saying that she has been working there since 2002. up until the decree absolute.
2. I just wanted to confirm will her EEA Resident Card act as an ID, It is somethign that was issued by the Home Office itself.
3. As far as my visa is concerend I still have a year and a half on my Resident permit so i should be covered for up to that time.

Hope this makes my position a little clearer.

Many Thanks

I'll only answer number 2.
They will not accept the EEA Residence Card as an ID, even though they are the ones who issued it. They will want to see the EU national's ID card or passport. Ridiculous, I know!

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:59 pm

thanks for the reply Rozen. I apologise for my ignorance, but can you please confirm what an European ID card would include. I have something like this:
http://www.quube.co.uk/images/ResidencePermit_EU.jpg

thanks

thsths · Post by **thsths** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:12 am

bobobo wrote:thanks for the reply Rozen. I apologise for my ignorance, but can you please confirm what an European ID card would include. I have something like this:
http://www.quube.co.uk/images/ResidencePermit_EU.jpg

There are a number of national European ID cards around. It would be issued by the home country of your spouse. The ID cards issued by the UK (for immigrants not under EUÂ law) look exactly like the harmonised European ID card (as far as I can tell), but they are not ID cards.

So IÂ think you have two options: either apply at the same time as your spouse, and hope that they will cross reference the two applications. Or you can fight the issue, because they have obviously seen the ID before.

IÂ am not sure whether you should push the issue now. There are reports that residence cards have been invalidated because the UKBA did not receive the passport of the EU spouse. This may become easier in a year or two, assuming that the courts get a word in. On the other hand the more time you have, the more options you can pursue.

Probably the best thing is to ask the EU signpost service for a legal opinion on whether you need the passport or not.

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:37 pm

Hi thsths - Thanks for the information, I did find out and the A8 country my ex is from do not offer any National ID's like Spain or France do.The other best thing I have is an EEA driving licence, which I am not sure will be of any use?

This is some what a show stopper. Well I can try to cross reference the application but I guess applications for EEA nationals who use form EEA3 are processed far more quickly compared to EEA4 or even my case, so there might be a chance that by the time my application is assigned to a case worker, her documents have all been processed and sent back to her.

I am not sure where else to get more information from, Please so let me know of some organisations that I can take advise from.
Cheers for all your help mate!
Bob

isceon · Post by **isceon** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:03 am

IF you are divorced and have been previously issued with a residence stamp then you do not need to provide her id or passport .
They will ask you only to show proof of exercising treaty right at the time of divorce.
So if your EX is willing to give proof of emplyment then you won t have a problem.
In my case the HO made a mistake and asked to see her passport because I divorced after I completed 5 years residence under EEA regulation.If u read in this forum all retention of residence application none has been asked to show the EX's passport provided that they had a residence card before..

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:35 am

hi isceon
am confused now, you think the ho ask for your ex id becos you divorced after completing the five years? wat difference does it make? my five years completed 17th nov , my decree absolute was issued 31 december does that mean i will be asked?.nothing in the eea directive states that. and didnt you submit yours after five years?

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:54 am

hi isceon
out of curiosity, did you give the ho your ex residence card . i mean the blue one with her pics.

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:47 pm

Hi Isecon, Thanks mate for the answer. bebe has raised some concern over this though, what do you feel about the questions raised.

thanks mate.
bob

isceon · Post by **isceon** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:27 am

hi
The HO made a mistake for my case in asking for her passport because I sent proof of 5 years exercising treaty right for both of us and I was married more than 5 years.
My caseworker considered my application under regulation 15 of the EEA regulations (5 years family member of an EEA citizen exercising treaty right instead of regulation 10 retention of residence following divorce.Had my caseworker read the detailed covering letters this would have never occured.
I am sure to have the refusal decision crushed just wait a bit longer.
I don't wish you to have the same caseworker I had or may be they will learn from mistakes.
Good luck

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:12 pm

hi isceon , did you send her residence card with your application?

mary was also asked for her ex husbands passport, wasnt she?

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:35 pm

Hi Bebe2, Mary was asked for her ex's passport as she did not hold a resident card that was issued by the HO before. I reckon the HO wanted to see some proof in her case.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... a2+divorce

If i am not making too big an assumption in my case when I applied for a 5 year family permit, I had sent my ex's passport and the Resident Card, so the Home office had a look at it and then they sent my passport back to me with the family resident card after 11 months.

I would assume that since I have already been issued a resident permit valid for 5 years and they previously have seen my ex's documents they might not ask me for her passport again. I however do have the EEA resident card that my ex got for 5 years which will expire soon, and I plan to send this to the HO to prove her identity with maybe an attested copy of her passport and see if this would work.

Isceon what is you opinion on this. Do i make any sense at all?
Thanks
Bob

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:47 pm

when i read isceon case, i spoke to my lawyer she said one of her client has also been asked to produce thier ex passport.

my fear is if the case worker made an error then a review by the ho should have resolved it. and we still have no one who has been through this process and got pr.

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:28 pm

Bebe2, I was under the impression that I would just be applying to retain my rights at the moment. I would complete 5 yrs on my Residence Card in Jan 2011, I can then straightaway apply for my PR. But since I have already retained my rights of residence I would just have to provide my 5 years payslips and p60's to prove that I have been in employment for the last 5 years. My understanding is that HO would not ask me for my ex's passport again as I have already retained the rights of residence, and would have then be divorced for abt 1.5 years

am I correct to think so.

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:25 pm

i think you would be alright becos you are not applying for pr. you just want to retain your current status.

i applied for pr, so did juicybiscuit, after a bit of hiccup the have finally given her pr instead of the rc they gave her before.
i cant remember if she gave them her ex passport.

isceon · Post by **isceon** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:07 pm

bobobo wrote:Hi Bebe2, Mary was asked for her ex's passport as she did not hold a resident card that was issued by the HO before. I reckon the HO wanted to see some proof in her case.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... a2+divorce

If i am not making too big an assumption in my case when I applied for a 5 year family permit, I had sent my ex's passport and the Resident Card, so the Home office had a look at it and then they sent my passport back to me with the family resident card after 11 months.

I would assume that since I have already been issued a resident permit valid for 5 years and they previously have seen my ex's documents they might not ask me for her passport again. I however do have the EEA resident card that my ex got for 5 years which will expire soon, and I plan to send this to the HO to prove her identity with maybe an attested copy of her passport and see if this would work.

Isceon what is you opinion on this. Do i make any sense at all?
Thanks
Bob

IF you are divorced and have been previously issued with a residence stamp then you do not need to provide her id or passport . They will ask you only to show proof of exercising treaty right at the time of divorce.
So if your EX is willing to give proof of emplyment then you won t have a problem.
In my case the HO made a mistake and asked to see her passport because I divorced after I completed 5 years residence under EEA regulation.If u read in this forum all retention of residence application none has been asked to show the EX's passport provided that they had a residence card before..
This is not only my opinion but also the EEA 2006 regulations.

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:32 pm

thanks guys for all your help and advise..

juicybiscuit · Post by **juicybiscuit** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:57 pm

bebe2 wrote:i cant remember if she gave them her ex passport.

I didn't.

I did however send an old photocopy of it with my original application. I don't see why they would need it though as any original residence card would have needed it submitted to begin with. In addition I think it would be highly unreasonable for the HO to require sensitive documents from those unwilling to co-operate such as an ex-partner.

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:34 pm

so you only gave then his residence, or didnt have that either.

juicybiscuit · Post by **juicybiscuit** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:03 pm

bebe2 wrote:so you only gave then his residence, or didnt have that either.

He is an EEA member so doesn't have a residence card. I seem to remember sending his passport to them when I originally applied for a residence card as his spouse.

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:23 pm

mine had a residence card, it was blue with his passport pic attach to one side. and he signed the bottom.

bobobo · Post by **bobobo** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:48 pm

guys, just wanted to give you some feedback, I have spoken to a few lawyers (my pockets feel really light now...) and they have said that as long as I have a Residence Card with me stating that I am a spouse of an EEA national, in this case i should be fine and I would not really need my ex's passport... maybe just the expired resident card would suffice....

I would think this makes sense, HO make us do more research than they know about things themselves, I think I will make an excellent case worker now as I now the EEA law like the back of my hand......

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:48 pm

yes i agree with you, i know the law more than them.

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EEA - Retain Rights of Residence

EEA - Retain Rights of Residence

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