Overstayer, complex issues...any advice??

[jmlondon]

Hi, I work at a college and have a student in the following situation - any advice would be much appreciated:

- She recently turned 18, and is 6 months pregnant. Lives with Mum and 5 year old brother.
- Jamaican national – been here since 1999, overstayed on visitor permit. Came here due to gang/ drug related violence in Jamaica, various family members had been killed.
- Her mum came in 2002, also overstayed and had passport taken by police, never sought to get it back or contact the Jamaican Embassy or Home Office.
- Brother was born here, but is not currently a British citizen.
- She is unable to go back to Jamaica as does not have any family left that she knows - the only family members that are there are still heavily involved in crime. Her mother is unable to go back as she is at severe risk and has had threats made due to family associations.
- Has a grandfather here with British citizenship.

She also has very serious housing issues and therefore child protection concerns but Social Services and Housing are unwilling to help due to her immigration status.

I understand that the 7 year concession was removed in December, but I'm unsure about whether this is covered by the ECHR? As far as I can tell they don't really have much hope, they have spoken to a legal advice centre who said they have no options, but thought I'd check on here...any ideas?? She could get married, but would still have to go back to Jamaica to wait before getting citizenship..?

Many thanks

[Mr Rusty]

These people and many like them are the reason that all Jamaican citizens now have to get a visa to come to the UK for any purpose.

Whatever the alleged justification for coming here in the first place (apparently not for a short visit), its value is reduced to zero by their failure to seek protection from the authorities here shortly after they arrived. Granted the 18-year-old would only have been 8 when she came, but the mother could have done so in 2000.

Unless the 18-year-old is removed very shortly, her advanced state of pregnancy will preclude any such action until after the birth. So the poor old British taxpayer will have to pick up a second batch of medical bills. (Incidentally, who is paying for "your student"?)

Unless the UK grandparent was born here, she doesn't qualify under UK ancestry. If she genuinely does want to get married, she should consider returning voluntarily to Jamaica, getting married there and applying for entry clearance to come back as a spouse. If enforcement action is taken against her here, it will be much more difficult for her to do this afterwards. Doubtless the legal advice that she has had will already have told her all this.

[jei2]

Unusual. A family fleeing violence and the child arrives before the mother. This would certainly raise questions.

1999 is also a long time for a threat to be maintained by a non-state agent. Again much explaining to do.

Relocation? Could the family not have moved elsewhere in Jamaica?

Getting married is out unless she's in a genuine relationship, and is going to do so through the church. Even then this doesn't guarantee success.

Otherwise she would need to have been living with her settled/British partner if she wants to apply for to the Home Office for permission to get married - not a short term exercise if you're an overstayer. There's also the potential for removal. If possible it would be quicker for her to return home and re-enter as a spouse.

If the family can provide objective evidence that there is a continuing threat against them, they might be able to request humanitarian protection/discretionary leave using aspects of the family life here eg grandfather, social networks etc. Otherwise they will have difficulty.

If the baby's father is British then the child will be also. However this doesn't give the mother settlement rights. (Unfortunately a common misconception).

There would have to be a lot of explaining to make this a feasible case to put to the Home Office. If the family consider themselves to be still seriously at risk they will need specialist advice.

Both Mum and daughter also need to consider for the future, that some hospitals may charge fees for ante and post natal services including the actual birth itself.

[Sushil-ACCA]

GOD BLESS UK

every one is bleeding tax payer in this counry
from politician genral greedy individuals

even tax payer dont have house but they have to pay for others

[Thandia]

Unusual. A family fleeing violence and the child arrives before the mother. This would certainly raise questions.

1999 is also a long time for a threat to be maintained by a non-state agent. Again much explaining to do.

Relocation? Could the family not have moved elsewhere in Jamaica?

Getting married is out unless she's in a genuine relationship, and is going to do so through the church. Even then this doesn't guarantee success.

Otherwise she would need to have been living with her settled/British partner if she wants to apply for to the Home Office for permission to get married - not a short term exercise if you're an overstayer. There's also the potential for removal. If possible it would be quicker for her to return home and re-enter as a spouse.

If the family can provide objective evidence that there is a continuing threat against them, they might be able to request humanitarian protection/discretionary leave using aspects of the family life here eg grandfather, social networks etc. Otherwise they will have difficulty.

If the baby's father is British then the child will be also. However this doesn't give the mother settlement rights. (Unfortunately a common misconception).

There would have to be a lot of explaining to make this a feasible case to put to the Home Office. If the family consider themselves to be still seriously at risk they will need specialist advice.

Both Mum and daughter also need to consider for the future, that some hospitals may charge fees for ante and post natal services including the actual birth itself.

ITA jei, plus she needs to be 21 to obtain a spousal visa as the spouse of a settled person.

[jei2]

Unusual. A family fleeing violence and the child arrives before the mother. This would certainly raise questions.

1999 is also a long time for a threat to be maintained by a non-state agent. Again much explaining to do.

Relocation? Could the family not have moved elsewhere in Jamaica?

Getting married is out unless she's in a genuine relationship, and is going to do so through the church. Even then this doesn't guarantee success.

Otherwise she would need to have been living with her settled/British partner if she wants to apply for to the Home Office for permission to get married - not a short term exercise if you're an overstayer. There's also the potential for removal. If possible it would be quicker for her to return home and re-enter as a spouse.

If the family can provide objective evidence that there is a continuing threat against them, they might be able to request humanitarian protection/discretionary leave using aspects of the family life here eg grandfather, social networks etc. Otherwise they will have difficulty.

If the baby's father is British then the child will be also. However this doesn't give the mother settlement rights. (Unfortunately a common misconception).

There would have to be a lot of explaining to make this a feasible case to put to the Home Office. If the family consider themselves to be still seriously at risk they will need specialist advice.

Both Mum and daughter also need to consider for the future, that some hospitals may charge fees for ante and post natal services including the actual birth itself.

ITA jei, plus she needs to be 21 to obtain a spousal visa as the spouse of a settled person.

Ah yes, thanks Thandia for that aide-memoire . She couldn't even have done it under the old rules (not without a long wait for re-entry anyway) - but I suspect marriage is just a straw grasping option here. A difficult exercise all round.

[rickthrn]

Hi
I am a social worker in London and the young person's situation is not that unuaual for a jamaican national who came to UK as a child and never reguarised his/her status in UK.

Many Local Authority's in London have Overstayers team who can assist in situations like this but the client needs to have made an application to stay in the UK and have a Home Office reference number, Im not sure if this is always the case but it is in the 2 boroughs I have worker dor.
LB of Islington have set the precident in Overstayers teams.

Ensure that the young person seeks the immediate help of a good Immigration lawyer to assist or contact the Immigration Advice Service IAS in London.

Children's Services within Local Authoriies do have responsibilities for assisting the family, ie mother and unborn/born child under s17 of the Children Act.
I work with several families who have overstayed in UK and we work "in the child's best interests" and we provide financial assistance to the family to ensure this children's needs are met.

Outside of London you may have more of a problem gaining financial assistance as less common scenario.
However if the child protection concerns are in relation to the safety and well being of the child then this would impact on the responsibility of the LA to assist the mother.

(Im sure not everyone posting n here will agree with my advice but I hope it helps your young person)

[jei2]

Hi
I am a social worker in London and the young person's situation is not that unuaual for a jamaican national who came to UK as a child and never reguarised his/her status in UK.
Many Local Authority's in London have Overstayers team who can assist in situations like this but the client needs to have made an application to stay in the UK and have a Home Office reference number, Im not sure if this is always the case but it is in the 2 boroughs I have worker dor.
LB of Islington have set the precident in Overstayers teams.

Ensure that the young person seeks the immediate help of a good Immigration lawyer to assist or contact the Immigration Advice Service IAS in London.

Children's Services within Local Authoriies do have responsibilities for assisting the family, ie mother and unborn/born child under s17 of the Children Act.
I work with several families who have overstayed in UK and we work "in the child's best interests" and we provide financial assistance to the family to ensure this children's needs are met.

Outside of London you may have more of a problem gaining financial assistance as less common scenario.
However if the child protection concerns are in relation to the safety and well being of the child then this would impact on the responsibility of the LA to assist the mother.

(Im sure not everyone posting n here will agree with my advice but I hope it helps your young person)

It's certainly unusual if they're claiming to be fleeing violence! Usually its the adults - not the children - who are targetted first.

Most overstayers can't even get through the door with Social Services - Home Office reference or not.

It seems your borough is an exception to the rule. Hope they live in your area - although having social services support won't resolve their immigration matter...

[rickthrn]

It's certainly unusual if they're claiming to be fleeing violence! Usually its the adults - not the children - who are targetted first.

Most overstayers can't even get through the door with Social Services - Home Office reference or not.

It seems your borough is an exception to the rule. Hope they live in your area - although having social services support won't resolve their immigration matter...[/quote]

If the person who is an "Overstayer" is a parent with dependant children then the parent can ask for an Assessment by Children's Services. However parents who have no right to stay in the UK are usually wary to request advice from Children's Services, (come to think of it 99% of parents are wary of asking for support/assessment of Need.)

I dont think my borough is the exception to the rule as Im aware of quite a few London boroughs with Overstayers teams.
In my experience if all applications fail then a PARENT can request an Assessment under the Human Rights Act but its not my area of expertise so seek legal advise.

A couple of years ago Social workers were put in a dilemma as they were told by the HO that we cannot help people who's claims had all failed and if that meant that a parent could not feed and clothe their children then we had to take the into care, I heard of at least 2 cases in the news, but that policy is very rarely implemented as it goes against the Children Act 1989.
Im sure there must have been some kind of challange in the court as I have not heard of this happening for a few years now, in fact the opposite in that we are increasingly supporting parents with No recourse to public funds.

To the OP, advise your client to seek out a good Immigration lawyer, either on this board or another borard www.ukresident.com is a lawyer called Victoria Sharkey, her contact no is 0207 340 4533, she gives excellent advise and has experience of working with Kingston Jamaica.
I cant remember her company name but you can google her or call them.

Just one other quick point, if the Local Authority have taken a parent to cout and their child is subject to an order, then I dont think that the parent can be removed from UK etc, Im not sure exactly how this works but I know that the Immigration Lawyers always contact the courts for leave to disclose the paperwork to the HO and this assists with the parents application.

Im no expert in all the details, can only offer my experiences on the ground.[/u]

[Hernancortes]

"GOD BLESS UK

every one is bleeding tax payer in this counry
from politician genral greedy individuals

even tax payer dont have house but they have to pay for others"

Stop being so self righteous. You are lucky you are not facing the girl's predicament. Why are migrants in the UK so pious and uber conservative about other migrants?

[jei2]

If the person who is an "Overstayer" is a parent with dependant children then the parent can ask for an Assessment by Children's Services. However parents who have no right to stay in the UK are usually wary to request advice from Children's Services, (come to think of it 99% of parents are wary of asking for support/assessment of Need.)

I dont think my borough is the exception to the rule as Im aware of quite a few London boroughs with Overstayers teams.
In my experience if all applications fail then a PARENT can request an Assessment under the Human Rights Act but its not my area of expertise so seek legal advise.

......
Just one other quick point, if the Local Authority have taken a parent to cout and their child is subject to an order, then I dont think that the parent can be removed from UK etc, Im not sure exactly how this works but I know that the Immigration Lawyers always contact the courts for leave to disclose the paperwork to the HO and this assists with the parents application.

Im no expert in all the details, can only offer my experiences on the ground.[/u]

I have to say rickthrn, your experiences seem to be only from inside the castle.

It's a completely different story trying to get s.17 or any other support from social services - even for the most vulnerable overstayers.

It looks like the "Overstayer Support" tag has been tacked on to the asylum team simply as a PR exercise. And if as you imply, 99% don't even try, there's surely a message there.....

[jmlondon]

Thanks for all (or most of!) the replies - some useful info.

I'm not so concerned with judging what her and her family did, or should have done, ten years ago, but rather with what their options are now.

I'm pretty sure there isn't an overstayers team within Social Services in her borough (in West London). And her social worker has said to me that even if she and her family were made street homeless (a very real possibility at the moment) they would not receive any support.

I will try IAS and the immigration lawyer mentioned - thanks rickthrn.