Husband UK Visa - advice needed

[loobey]

Hello, my husband has applied for a visa to settle in the UK and although we have not received a reply yet, we have become increasingly worried since reading different cases on here. Please bear with me whilst i explain the whole situation.

I'm British Caucasian aged 18 years and my husband is Pakistani aged 23. We firstly met via the Internet, after chatting for almost 2 years, I went to Pakistan and we got married in February 2005. Once I returned to the UK, we started sorting out the visa application and we applied on the 25th of April 2005.

At the time of applying for the visa I was a student and therefore only working part-time. My father therefore wrote a letter stating that he would support myself and my husband financially. I am still only working part time (although my hours have increased as I am no longer studying). I have not applied for a full-time job, as I was aware I may return to Pakistan in the case that my husband does not get his visa.

The documents we produced were: our marriage certificate (Urdu and English), photos of our wedding and time together in Pakistan, calling cards, the last 3 months of my father's pay slips, a council tax letter, property details (4 bedrooms and 2 other rooms not including bathroom/Spam etc, with currently 4 people living there), emails dating back to when we first started chatting in June 2003 and one page of my savings account of roughly £1500.

Myself and my husband have now discussed whether it is better for me to get a full time job now, so that should he be refused the visa and then get the chance to appeal, we will be able to show that I am working full time and be able to support us (even though my father has said he will). Or is it worth waiting another couple of weeks to find out about the result of the Visa, as I don't want to jump into a full-time job, then leave 2/3 weeks later to return to Pakistan.

I know we don't know for sure that we have been refused, but any suggestions on what to do now would be greatly appreciated. If there is anything else you would like to know which may help you with giving advice, please ask.
Claire.

[John]

Claire, I think you just need to be a bit patient here. These things sometimes take a bit of time. You certainly should not equate not hearing with expecting a refusal.

And for that reason I certainly don't think you should get a full-time job at this moment in time. If a visa refusal is issued it would include reasons for the rejection, and then you would know what aspect you would need to work on.

[bash_h]

Hi Claire!

I applied for my spouses settlement visa earlier this year at ISB and I know it takes ages!! Firstly, I think the timescale for a reply is about 14 weeks, which makes it early August before you are supposed get a reply. So I think you should wait at least until then. However, here are a few tips you may find useful

You must've applied through Gerry's Fedex couriers in Islamabad. After you submit the application there, they give you a little slip with all the computer/reference numbers etc on them, you can go on the www.visadropbox.com website and check the progress there. Even if it hasnt been processed, you will be able to see all the details,date of submission etc etc on there.

What you also can do is, armed with details such as passport number, application date etc, your husband should ring the Embassy Visa section. Now, they are always extremely busy, and it seems as though as they just have a recorded message playing saying "please try again in 15 mins", dont give up, just keep trying. I believe they open at 9am, so he's best trying from 8.55am onwards on a working day. You cant ring them yourself, because of Data protection they wont speak to anyone else, not even you. Once he speaks to someone in the Embassy they will give him an update on the situation. (Dont just rely on the Gerrys website)

I hope you do get the visa, i know it takes a long time and its hard being away from your other half, but hopefully it wont be too much longer.

If in the case that it gets rejected, again I hope it doesnt, then please advise this board as soon as possible as you will have a small length of time where you can appeal to convince the Entry Clearence officer to overturn the decision, rather than having to go through a formal appeal. John or one of the other moderators will be able to help you with this.

All the best!

[loobey]

Hi, thanks to both of you for your help and advice.

On my husband's slip, the computer # was left blank. He is therefore going to contact Fedex tomorrow and try and find out his computer #. After that he said he will call the Embassy and try and find out any updates. But he read on the Embassy website, not to call the Embassy about individual applications.

I'll keep you posted on any new information we get.

Thanks, Claire.

[bash_h]

no Computer #? Hmm.. Thats quite strange, I would still advise you to contact the Embassy visa helpline directly (I dont think Fedex will help much), and they will give you an update.

I know it must say dont contact for individual applications, but you've waited 11 weeks and no reply, so I dont think they'll mind that you've been in touch. Remember you cant ring them yourself, and also tell your husband to keep trying the number again & again (from before 9am onwards) and he will get through to someone.

The number for the visa section is 0092-51-201 2000 or 201 2901.

When I applied for my wife, they said it currently takes 14 weeks. However they have now changed it to 12 weeks :-

BHC, Islamabad

-: so you should ring them tomorrow to see what they say

Good luck!

[loobey]

Hello, well.... my husband tried to call Fedex, but they did not answer the phone. So he called the Embassy and the person who answered asked for my husband's passport number. The person then asked if my husband had received a letter (any ideas what this letter could be?), which my husband said no he had not received any letter.

The person then asked my husband to fax all of his details to the Embassy, but did not give any update on his application. My husband has faxed his details, so we are just waiting to hear from them again.
Claire.

[bash_h]

I didnt think Fedex would be of much help. They are just the couriers who take the documents from one place to another.

They probably asked him to fax the details to verify who he is,

all the best

[ShoaibJaved]

Hi Claire,
Just be patient, thats all you can do at the moment. Ask your husband to call then every few days to get the current status. In my case (it was HSMP not spouse visa ) they kept telling me that my case is under consideration but when it was decided they did tell me on the phone that I should expect my passport by courier in few days. They may or may not tell you the outcome of application over the phone.

[loobey]

Hello, today my husband received a phone call from Fedex, they told him that he needed an interview and his interview is on the 8th of August. He went to the Fedex office to collect his documents and there was a letter from the Embassy.

In the letter they stated "you must ensure you bring evidence of sponsor's funds (or evidence of father in law's funds) and bring evidence of any further contact with sponsor." Would evidence of my father's pension be sufficient? (which he can start to claim as of september this year). My husband and myself chat everyday through instant messaging, so we don't have any new emails, but he has 2 more calling cards and i have a phone bill, will this be enough?

I am still working part time, but i may have the option to start working full time in the next week or two. Would it be better for me to apply for that job and then my husband can say i am now working full time.

Now I have some questions regarding interviews. Firstly do you know what type of/sort of or any questions they will ask (bash_h - perhaps you can mention the questions you were asked if you had an interview).

I would also like to know how long the interviews are and how long do you have to wait after the interview before finding out whether or not you have got the visa?

Would it be better for my husband to speak in English or Urdu during the interview, or does it make no difference? Is the interview the final process of the visa application? or will there be something else to go through if they are still unsure?

Finally, if there is anything else which you think is important for my husband to know or any other tips, i would be very grateful.

Thanks, Claire.

[John]

Hi, well at least you now have a far better idea where you stand!

As regards financial matters, I think provide proof of everything ... both from yourself and from your father .... not just income, or indeed income that will start in September ... but also details of any savings. Don't skimp on that ... better to provide too much evidence than leave a doubt in the ECO's mind.

Also provide some idea of the income you expect your husband to get if the visa is granted. The sort of job he might get .... the income level that would generate? Copies of job adverts in support?

You mention instant messaging. Excuse my ignorance ... with the program you use is there the ability to store as a file on your computer a copy of the texts that have been typed. Before my wife came to the UK we used to use a program called Paltalk and that certainly had the ability to store texts to a file on my computer. A number of those files were printed (some suitably censored!) and supplied as part of the evidence folder provided to get my wife her visa.

I shall leave others to comment upon your English or Urdu question. However it should not make any difference.

Just one final point. Financial matters and "evidence of contact"! The fact that the BHC has highlighted those matters could mean that they think that there was insufficient evidence of those sorts supplied to them in the past. Don't ignore that hint .... supply lots of information on both of those points.

Hope it all works out.

[bash_h]

Hi Claire,

My wife didnt' have an interview, our application was dealt by paperwork only. Islamabad conduct very little interview these days.

OK, evidence of sponsor's funds, Im just going to re-iterate what john said and say just send EVERYTHING you can, theres never too little (as long as its relevent of course). If you've added anything more to your £1500 savings, send that, your fathers income or income projection (he must have had a letter or something from his pension company/IR) that would help,
Not sure if John would agree but he is more experienced, but if you start working full time now, you can get a letter done from your HR saying now your working full time in a position earning so & so much.
RE: husband's future career, if you have something planned, great, send adverts, offers etc. if not then im not sure if you have any contact within the local Pakistani community, what some people do is get a letter done from a small business (even a takeaway/restuarant) saying we will give mr X a job when he comes to the UK.
With instant messaging, like John says, get the record of all the chats & print it out. Also, another thing you might want to chase up, the calling cards he uses, if he still has them, tell him to contact customer services of the calling card, and ask them to send him a copy of all the numbers he rang from the serial number of the calling card, some companies do that.
Interviews shouldnt be that long, and he can give it in Urdu or English I dont think it matters (they have an interpreter there if the ECO is non-Urdu speaking).
I'd be very suprised if they dont give a decision after the interview, they wont need to ask any more information.

Keep us posted!

[loobey]

Hi and thanks for both of your quick replies!

I'll tell you a list of the things we have collected to show the embassy:

1. My dad's pension information

2. A letter from my dad (i think he wants to explain about his pension)

3. My mum has an account with £1600

4. Home phone bill

5. Text messages my husband sent to my mobile phone via the internet service o2

6. Yahoo message archive (is it ok to edit parts of the conversation out? As it has the time the messages were received)

7. A letter I wrote to my husband and birthday cards from myself and my parents

8. I am going to call my mobile network company and ask if I can have a bill showing my calls (although i am on pay as you go)

9. A letter from my work, if start working full-time

10. Job adverts in my local newspaper and we can highlight the ones we feel appropriate for my husband

11. My husband has 2 calling cards

12. My dad's more recent pay slips

13. Pictures... (a birthday cake i arranged for my husband with my name on it)

Do you think these things are appropriate and is there anything else you can suggest?

Thanks in advance, Claire.

[John]

Claire, possibly add more recent, up-to-date bank statements for yourself and also your father?

As regards your no. 6 ... editing ... certainly censor ... depending upon what the two of you have been writing to each other! But edit time or date? Why would that be important?

Looking back through this thread you write :-

property details (4 bedrooms and 2 other rooms not including bathroom/Spam etc, with currently 4 people living there)

Is it clear from what you have submitted previously how many of those rooms are over 50 sq feet? If not do include that information. And also say if any of the persons living in the house are 10 or under.

And is it clear? .... statement from your father? ... that the two of you have permission to live at his house? If not also include that. Don't assume that the ECO will assume that permission is granted.

[loobey]

Thanks for the advice!

My husband has a document which my parents were given when they viewed the house 9 years ago.

It shows the layout of the house and also has the dimensions, each room is i think over 50 sq ft except the bathrooms and utility. Everyone is over 17 years in my house, so i guess that means 4 adults living there currently and no children.

My dad stated in a previous letter that he is willing to let us stay in his house, he will also write it in his next letter (is there any other way of proving this without writing in a letter?).

I was worried about deleting parts of the conversation, because there will be a gap in the time... say a 5min gap, but i guess it is not that important!

Claire.

[John]

Claire .... what we did was to put ***** where there were words which it would not have been appropriate for the embassy to see. That is, we did not just delete those words, we changed them for ***** !

Doing that will explain why a time difference has occurred.

[bash_h]

Claire,

Sounds like you have got most of the things ready! You can indeed just edit out the bits you dont want the ECO to read.

All the best.

[loobey]

Hi, my husband got refused his visa!!
I am so annoyed and upset, especially for the reasons of refusal, although i have not properly looked into them.

The reasons stated were: "I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet requirements of paragraph 277, 278 & 281 in particular: that each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse and the marriage is subsisting as required by Rule 281 (iii) HC 395"

Any idea where i can find out more about the above points?

The interviewer stated that as my husband is a Muslim, he is not allowed to marry a Christian, which is not true, as we would not have been married in the first place, if that was the case!

I quote from 'www.islam-qa.com'
"Praise be to Allaah.
A Muslim man is permitted to marry anyone he likes of the women whom Allaah has allowed him to marry, but he is encouraged to marry a Muslim woman who is religious and has a good moral character (because this is the basis of true happiness). Similarly, he is permitted to marry a chaste woman of the People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians."

My husband tried to argue against that point, but the interviewer would not accept it.

He also said "you were married on 21/02/2005 and i note from the copy of your sponsor's passport that she stayed in Pakistan only one day after that date. I consider it reasonable that, were you genuinely intending to live together, she would have stayed in Pakistan with you for more than one day. I note she was not working in the UK at that time,
[if he had read the letter from my place of work, he would know i was employed from March 2004, nearly a year before, i had booked only 2 weeks off from work and i had gone during half term, so not to interfere with my studies]
therefore she was not required to return to the UK because of her job.

I also sought that your sponsor has not sought to visit you in Pakistan since she left a day after your marriage [again, i was studying and i had my a-level exams, by the time i had completed my exams, it was close to finding out the result of his visa, which is why we decided for me not to return, but to wait and find out what happens].

You have stated that your wife has just left school and has a part time job, she has only just started this job [incorrect - i started in March 2004] and has no savings with which to support you [i have £1500] There is an offer of third party support from the sponsor's father but this is written on the same typewriter and in the same style as the letter of support from your sponsor.
[But there was also my father's pension documents and my mothers savings, surely i would not forge these?]
I am not therefore satisfied that they have not been written by the same person and therefore actually available to you. In the same way I am not satisfied that the accomodation on offer will be available to you either. [The fact that both me and my father wrote our letters together, using the same computer, we just used Times New Roman, the standard font, if i had changed mine to Comic Sans, would that have proved anything? How can i prove that my father is willing to support myself and my husband, without him actually going to Pakistan and attending the interview also].

Sorry i have made it such a long post, i just wanted to type as much information as possible, because we do have the chance to appeal. But i can't see what further documentation we can show, that will help. My husband said he did not even look at most of the documents he gave him, which is probably why he has made all of these assumptions!

So what is the best route to take now? Appeal in the UK or in Pakistan? Or is there another way to solve this, without going down the appeal route.

I hope you can advise me and once again sorry for making it so long!
Claire.

[Ajnabi]

Hello Every body! My name is Sajjad Ahmed and i am Claire's husband.

well, i was quite suprise to see the ECo's behaviour i can't explain just seemed he already had made the decission that he has to refuse the application coz he didn't even read the documents i gave him about our further contact and her dad's pension n saving carefully.
He just did have a look and asked all the questions off the topic like... he asked why ur parents were not in the marrige why you didn't tell them... well we didn't have much time coz before meeting we decided that after meeting we will decide about marriage and also coz they live far away from islamabad in a village so i couldn't contact them and also i don't think that is a matter coz they are british people who just talk about it and i've seen many tv programs and stories in magazines that mulsim parents do force their childern for arrange marriages and if a pakistani muslim has had love marriage with a british girl then that is a problem ... is that not a strange thing and does show how dearly beloved they are? and they just do publish that kind of stories and show programs on tv just to make a bad image of muslims?
I was so disappionted to see the ECO's behaviour... he was behaving like that was his kindness that he was even talking to me and just showing me angry face when i told him that is allowed in islam to marry a christian woman he didn't believe the fact but insisted that he has the knowledge more than me without having any proof so i didn't know how could i make him believe that.
the reasons he gave for the refusal as my wife told in her message there is none of them true they just show the lake of ECO's knowledge cause he didn't even see the documents we did provide...
Now what can we do? is there anyone who can suggess us something? i've seen many of you people have viewed Claire's message but no one has replied to it so i thought i would send a message and explain it more if some one has any ideas then could they please share with us?

Waiting for reply.
Sajjad Ahmed

[Smit]

Sorry to hear about this. You can appeal against the refusal, the Appeal Notice must be lodged at the British mission where you applied in Pakistan within 28 days of refusal. You have to set out clearly all the grounds challenging the ECO's decision. Appeals are decided in the UK.

Alternatively you can make a fresh application and present it with as much relevant evidence as you can gather. I guess there are lots of fraudulent applications in Pakistan which is why the ECO is taking such a hard line, but if you satisfy the rules, you should be able to get the EC. It is important to show that you are in a valid and subsisting marriage (which is recognised by the Pakistani Government) and your spouse is able to maintain you without recourse to public funds.

[loobey]

Hi, thanks your advice!

I have read in other members applications refusals, that they could get the application reviewed, before appealing.

"Raven, based upon the reasons for the rejection, I think you should request that the decision to refuse the application be reviewed by the Manager of the Visa Section at that location."
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... bd67cf6f41

I would like to know how do we get the application reviewed? Does it have to be reviewed in Pakistan or can it be done in the UK?

As one of the reasons for not giving the visa was because he thought i wrote the letter from my Father and therefore my Father would not allow my husband to live in our house, if the review could be done in the UK, my Father could personally go to wherever it may be... to confirm that he is willing for my husband to live here.

What further evidence can we show for our marriage? My husband showed our marriage certificate in English and Urdu and photos from that day. We also showed that we chat everyday via instant messaging, but he still seemed to think this is not a genuine relationship and that we do not intend to live together!

The points against the visa are:

SPOUSES
277. Nothing in these Rules shall be construed as permitting a person to be granted entry clearance, leave to enter, leave to remain or variation of leave as a spouse of another if either the applicant or the sponsor will be aged under 18 on the date of arrival in the United Kingdom or (as the case may be) on the date on which the leave to remain or variation of leave would be granted. (I was 18 when i went to Pakistan and my husband is 23)

278. Nothing in these Rules shall be construed as allowing a person to be granted entry clearance, leave to enter, leave to remain or variation of leave as the spouse of a man or woman (the sponsor) if:

(i) his or her marriage to the sponsor is polygamous; and (this was both mine and my husband's first marriage and neither of us have married another person since!)

(ii) there is another person living who is the husband or wife of the sponsor and who:

(a) is, or at any time since his or her marriage to the sponsor has been, in the United Kingdom; or

(b) has been granted a certificate of entitlement in respect of the right of abode mentioned in Section 2(1)(a) of the Immigration Act 1988 or an entry clearance to enter the United Kingdom as the husband or wife of the sponsor.

SPOUSES OF PERSONS PRESENT AND SETTLED IN THE UNITED KINGDOM OR BEING ADMITTED ON THE SAME OCCASION FOR SETTLEMENT

Requirements for leave to enter the United Kingdom with a view to settlement as the spouse of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted on the same occasion for settlement

281. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom with a view to settlement as the spouse of a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement are that:

(i) (a) the applicant is married to a person present and settled in the United Kingdom or who is on the same occasion being admitted for settlement; or (yes we are married and i am British)

(b) the applicant is married to a person who has a right of abode in the United Kingdom or indefinite leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom and is on the same occasion seeking admission to the United Kingdom for the purposes of settlement and the parties were married at least 4 years ago, since which time they have been living together outside the United Kingdom; and (i believe i can remain in the United Kingdom!)

(ii) the parties to the marriage have met; and (yes we were both present at our marriage)

(iii) each of the parties intends to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse and the marriage is subsisting; and (we intend to live together as a married couple, hence why my father stated my husband could live in our house)

(iv) there will be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and (there is enough room for at least 8 people to live in our house and there is currently 4)

(v) the parties will be able to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and (i stated i intend to start working full time after receiving my results and i am earning roughly £150 a week now, but my father has said he would support both myself and husband financially until we are able to do so ourselves)

(vi) the applicant holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity. (???? i am not sure what this means, but surely he would hold this if he was given the visa)

As i believe this is a mistake, i would like to get the application reviewed before appealing, but i just need to know more details on how to get it reviewed and where.

Thanks, Claire.

[bash_h]

Hi Claire/Sajjad,

Sorry to hear about the decision. Im sure the others will tell you the correct way of "reviewing" a decision, I thought I'd just mention a few points.

Are you sure you gave the Urdu (Nikah Nama) along with an English Translation? (Prefereably attested by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, although this isnt a requirement, it will give further validity to the marriage and it only costs about Rs 50). This will also disperse the irrational argument from the ECO that a muslim cant marry a christian woman.

Offer of accomodation, although your father wrote a letter, do you think it would be an idea to get this counter signed by say someone like a doctor, to say its been completed and signed by the named person XXX (your father)

Keep us updated!

[loobey]

Hi, yeah i am sure my husband gave both the Urdu and English translation and that sounds like a good idea to get it attested, thanks for that.

Well my father is a Police Officer and my husband showed my father's pay slips, in which it was very clear he works for the Police, so i guess my father could have it signed by someone he works with.

This has been helpful, because at least we can start to reinforce the evidence we already had, but it does annoy me, when the evidence was all there in the first place.

Thanks, Claire.

[Marie B]

Hi Claire,

sorry to hear about your situation. From the sounds of it the BC in Pakistan is really strict.

I recently married in Albania and my husband received his spouse visa in just a couple of days, we were really lucky. One thing I did include in his application was a statement written by me detailing my education, my employability, future prospects, etc. signed and dated and signed by a witness. Maybe you could write a similar statement but detailing each point against his case and the reason why they are wrong in their assumptions. For example, explain the reasons for leaving the following day, why his parents were not at the wedding, why your letter and that of your father were similar, just as you have done in your post, then sign and date it.

You can then take your statement into any local court and tell the people in the reception area that you want to swear a statement, you can then swear that the statement was written by you and it is true to the best of your knowledge and the court will stamp it and seal it for you. Maybe your father could do the same with his written statement? The BC in Pakistan cannot then suggest that your father did not write his statement as it has been witnessed in a British Court and will have a stamp and seal on it as proof.

[Raven]

Hi Claire

Sorry to hear about your husbands visa refusal, i truly understand what you may be going through, but have faith in the almighty God InshaAllah your husband will soon get his visa, i have appealed and my MP wrote a letter to the UK visas in London i am just waiting for their reply.

my advice for you is to see your local MP and show him/her the refusal letter and take it from there.

These ECO can be really bad sometimes, there was a person i knew, he spended half of his life in prison on drug dealing charges when he got married in Pakistan and applyed for the visa, it was granted first time so you see they always give stressful time to good people, at the end of the day keep your faith in Allah.

[Ajnabi]

Hi all!
I thought that site was very helpful and was going to help us about our case like they have been helping other people who had same kind of problems that's why we did discuss our case here.
well, from the start when we didn't need much help and just needed comments every1 was replying and now when we need your help none of the moderators have replied from last 10 days or so neither we got much help from any member of this site.
So i was wonderring if anyone could still help and give us some guidence?

wiating for positive response...

Sajjad Ahmed