Submitting new evidence for the appeal- Mentioned in Refusal

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:13 pm

Hi everyone,

I have appealed against the decision to refuse me a PSW because I had not submitted my original certificate of award. I submitted a letter with my name, title of the course, award given, start and end dates, date of award, that the university is a recognised institution, that the certifcate is being issued, and the stamp from the academic registrar.

The grounds of refusal were all based on not submitting my original certificate of award, so I did not get any points for my qualification, institution, and english language. I did get points for applying within twelve months.

I am going to show my original certificate when I get a hearing, the reason I did not submit before is that I did not have it with me yet, so I submitted the letter as per the policy guidance.

Will that be a problem? Will it be admissible as supporting evidence, even if I did submit the required evidence?

yasa · Post by **yasa** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:15 pm

cheryl99 wrote:Hi everyone,

I have appealed against the decision to refuse me a PSW because I had not submitted my original certificate of award. I submitted a letter with my name, title of the course, award given, start and end dates, date of award, that the university is a recognised institution, that the certifcate is being issued, and the stamp from the academic registrar.

The grounds of refusal were all based on not submitting my original certificate of award, so I did not get any points for my qualification, institution, and english language. I did get points for applying within twelve months.

I am going to show my original certificate when I get a hearing, the reason I did not submit before is that I did not have it with me yet, so I submitted the letter as per the policy guidance.

Will that be a problem? Will it be admissible as supporting evidence, even if I did submit the required evidence?

it will assist your case... take it with you in your hearing

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:41 am

Thank you for the advice! I will make sure ill take it in with me

koolbone · Post by **koolbone** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:08 am

cheryl99 wrote:Thank you for the advice! I will make sure ill take it in with me

Of course you will win your appeal if you provide your certificate of award at the time of the appeal. It is obviously a wrong decision.
I find it totally unfair that you submitted a letter in accordance with the stipulated guidelines and they still refused your application. It seems to me that the HO is hellbent on refusing applications nowadays, even ones like yours that seemed to have followed the guidelines to the letter.
If it's this bad, they should just close down the whole scheme and let international students know where they stand instead of wasting their time and money.
All the best though, let your mind be at rest. You will win your appeal

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:58 pm

Thank you koolbone, it is encouraging to hear that, because I still feel the same way about this whole thing, it is really unfair, and they should not get away with it. Someone mentioned that it could be because they could not prove if I had paid my fees, but it is not for them to determine that! They only need the proof of award.

koolbone · Post by **koolbone** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:42 pm

cheryl99 wrote:Thank you koolbone, it is encouraging to hear that, because I still feel the same way about this whole thing, it is really unfair, and they should not get away with it. Someone mentioned that it could be because they could not prove if I had paid my fees, but it is not for them to determine that! They only need the proof of award.

To serve as further encouragement, I was unfairly refused in a very similar manner to yours a couple of months back. I was successful with my appeal. My hearing lasted less than 10 minutes and even the judge said it was a ridiculous decision.
Since the letter you submitted had all the required information, it seems to me that your case is even more ridiculous than mine.
As for those saying stuff about the proof of fee payment, that's just rubbish. All they need, like you said is proof of the award. There's even a poster on here who included his school financial statement as proof that he'd paid his fees (he didn't need to do this but maybe he wanted to be thorough) and the stupid case worker mistook this school's financial statement (which had the school logo on it) for his bank statements (as if there's a bank in the UK with the name of a school) and refused him.
So, appeal on time with your certificate and you should be OK.
All the best.

RAJ2007 · Post by **RAJ2007** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:03 pm

cheryl99,

Does your letter states ' the certifcate is being issued' but you have not provided it. I think that's the reason of refusal. If the letter stated that the certificate will be issued in due course. Then I believe then Ho wouldn't have refused you.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, how long did they took to refuse your application (from the date of application).

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Hi, I thought that the letter saying the certificate has been issued is probably why they refused, but it was still unclear because they did give me points for applying within 12 months of my award. I had also informed them asap that my certificate had finally arrived, and whether I should send it, they said no, unless the caseworker requests for it. That was the only reason I could come up with, but the policy guidance seems to suggest that they just need the reassurance that the certificate will be issued,. The university accepted that that was an error on their part, but many other people used the same letter. if I am to argue the case, the word issue does not necessarily mean it is physically in my hands, it just means that I have already been awarded the certificate.

Do you think that it is a valid refusal? I am going to show them evidence that I did not have it with me at the time, (it was in the post - long story) and so I sent a letter with the details.

The application was processed in 4 weeks, 4 and a half if you count the weekend ( had sent it out at the end of the week, but it was acknowledged in the next week)

Koolbone,

What was your main argument with your qualification? It seems to me that very few people get refusals on cases like ours, because it is ridiculous.

RAJ2007 · Post by **RAJ2007** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:16 pm

cheryl99,

Donn't worry. you will surely get it 100%. HO looks for every possible reason to hassle the immigrant. That's joy of being an immigrant ! or rather second class citizen (even after obtaining British passport).

koolbone · Post by **koolbone** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:27 pm

cheryl99 wrote:
Koolbone,

What was your main argument with your qualification? It seems to me that very few people get refusals on cases like ours, because it is ridiculous.

Well, as at the time I applied in September, I didn't have my certificate because it was before my graduation. My visa was set to expire end of October, so I could not afford to waste much time before applying.
In accordance with the guidelines, I submitted a letter that contained all the required information. It also contained a breakdown of my modules and my grades in each of them. There was also a line in the letter that stated something like I had passed my course with distinction subject to approval by the University board.
I was refused because of this line. The HO claimed they could not determine whether or not I had been awarded my degree. This was after waiting for over 15 weeks only to be refused because of something they could easily have confirmed from my University. I got my certificate towards the ending of October and I felt that if they needed further confirmation, they would always call me for it. How wrong was I. Of course I was frustrated to be refused over something so minor.
Anyways, I appealed like I said and was successful, no sweat. The judge said to the HO guy during the appeal that it was ridiculous for me to be refused over something like that despite having sent a letter with my application that contained the required information.

yasa · Post by **yasa** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:07 pm

cheryl99 wrote:Thank you koolbone, it is encouraging to hear that, because I still feel the same way about this whole thing, it is really unfair, and they should not get away with it. Someone mentioned that it could be because they could not prove if I had paid my fees, but it is not for them to determine that! They only need the proof of award.

dude its simple if u dont pay the fees then uni will not gonna issue a letter... but there are some idiots in HO as case workers who dont really use brains rather than tick boxes but any way hope for the best and prepare your case for hearing I m sure u gonna win this its a clear cut case but keep in mind be prepared for the next lever like tier 1 (general) and dont leave any pity point for them to dismiss your application...

cheers

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:18 am

They made you wait 15 weeks!!! wow! thats crazy, still waiting for a hearing date, but I guess with appeals you need to wait awhile. Thanks for all your help, hopefully by June/July I will have a visa.

RAJ2007 · Post by **RAJ2007** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:23 pm

cheryl99,

If you don't mind could I ask you when (the date) did you actually posted the original application for PSW and when (the date)did they refuse you.
Also, did you pay but by card?

The reason being my friend has applied on 5th March (paid by card) and he is anxiously waiting to hear from HO.

A · Post by A » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:28 pm

RAJ2007,

If your friend applied on the 5th March 2009 then there is absolutely no need for him to be anxious at this stage!! It is generally a very long process so he could wait months before he hears anything. I myself initially applied for a PSW Visa on 5th Sept 2008 and it took 3 months until the HO responded to my application with a rejection. I then went through the appeal process and had a court hearing in Jan 2009 which was successful. Now, over 6 months since my initial application, I am still waiting to hear from the HO as to when or how they will give me my visa. So, it can take a long time so at this stage, it's still early days for your mate.

Tell him that if he hears nothing after 14 weeks have passed, he has the right to ring the Immigration Enquiry Bureau and ask for an explanation.

Good luck,
A.

swjunkie228 · Post by **swjunkie228** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:29 pm

I had/have the exact same problem. My letters were written according to UKCISA/UKBA standard saying I completed the course (grades and courses) and would graduate in December, but apparently they are unable to put two letters together and realise that together they say I completed my course and am graduating, but haven't yet.

Good luck on your appeal!

RAJ2007 · Post by **RAJ2007** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:58 pm

A,

Cherlyl99 got his refusal within 4.5 weeks. therefore it is not that HO is delaying everyone's application. I wonder whether they are delaying few applications (PG Cert & PG Diplomas) not those who completed Bachelor's / Masters.

Also, HO website says they are considering applications received before 12th March 2009.

Cherly99,

I look forward to hear from you regarding my previous query.

A · Post by A » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:29 pm

Hi RAJ2007,

I totally agree with you. They are not delaying everyone's applications, but the impression I am getting from this site is that GENERALLY (as I said) they are. Of course because mine got rejected (incorrectly, mind you) mine has taken particularly long. I hope for your mate's sake he doesn't have to wait much longer but I was just sharing my story so he knows of the possibility of a lengthy waiting period, since you say he is already anxious after 3 or so weeks. That's all!

Good luck to him,
A.

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:24 pm

Hi RAJ2007,

I sent in my application on the 22nd of January, I received my refusal on the 28th of February, so that actually makes it 5 weeks not 4 and a half in total from the date I sent it, and about 4 and a half weeks from the date of receipt until the passport was ready, what I did was send the HO a letter asking for it to be couriered, so they called me on the 27th to let me know it was ready for collection.

The timing varies, I have a friend who took 6 weeks, others took 4, it is all dependent.

RAJ2007 wrote:A,

Cherlyl99 got his refusal within 4.5 weeks. therefore it is not that HO is delaying everyone's application. I wonder whether they are delaying few applications (PG Cert & PG Diplomas) not those who completed Bachelor's / Masters.

Also, HO website says they are considering applications received before 12th March 2009.

Cherly99,

I look forward to hear from you regarding my previous query.

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:28 pm

Oh and yes, I did pay by card, it was an automatic payment, done when they received the application on the 26th of January. Dont worry too much, your friend will prob get the visa anytime from next week, sometimes it is faster, but thats only when they are not busy.

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:30 pm

Thanks! have you managed to appeal as well??

swjunkie228 wrote:I had/have the exact same problem. My letters were written according to UKCISA/UKBA standard saying I completed the course (grades and courses) and would graduate in December, but apparently they are unable to put two letters together and realise that together they say I completed my course and am graduating, but haven't yet.

Good luck on your appeal!

swjunkie228 · Post by **swjunkie228** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:35 pm

cheryl99 wrote:Thanks! have you managed to appeal as well??

I mailed my appeal off the day I received it because it was blatantly their fault. I received the letter asking for any additional statements/evidence and I sent all of that in last week. They won't make any decisions until after 23 April because I requested an appeal on paper.

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:58 pm

swjunkie228 wrote:
cheryl99 wrote:Thanks! have you managed to appeal as well??

I mailed my appeal off the day I received it because it was blatantly their fault. I received the letter asking for any additional statements/evidence and I sent all of that in last week. They won't make any decisions until after 23 April because I requested an appeal on paper.

You will get your appeal allowed, they can be crazy! What date did you mail it off? I submitted mine in on the 13th of March, oral appeal, but they havent given me a hearing date yet.

swjunkie228 · Post by **swjunkie228** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:02 pm

I originally mailed my appeal on 7 March, but didn't hear anything back from the tribunal until Thurs 26 March, at which point they said it could be decided any time after 23 April.

cheryl99 · Post by **cheryl99** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:04 pm

At least you have a date from when it will be considered. I am sure you will be fine, thanks for the info, I was worried it was taking so long to get a hearing date!

swjunkie228 wrote:I originally mailed my appeal on 7 March, but didn't hear anything back from the tribunal until Thurs 26 March, at which point they said it could be decided any time after 23 April.

RAJ2007 · Post by **RAJ2007** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:15 am

My friend got his PSW.

Applied on 5th Mar 09
App received /payment received by Ho: 6/03/09
Visa Issued: 1st apr 09
Passport back: 2nd Apr 09

He is over the moon!

Impressed by HO's quick turnaround.

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Submitting new evidence for the appeal- Mentioned in Refusal

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