4 EUFAM after 3 years

[zafarzafar]

Hi all,
I have a quick question if some body could answer plese.

In European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) regulations 2006 please see Page Number 7.
Link : http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

WHAT DOES IT MEAN " Retention of the right of residence by family member of Union citizen in the event of death or departure from the State of Union citizen "

AND

"Subject to subparagraph (b), a family member of a Union citizen who is a national of a Member State may retain a right of residence in the State on an individual and personal basis in the event of the death or departure from the State of the Union citizen."

MY QUESTION:-
1.Does it mean if after 3 years couple is even seperated the non EU can retain his residency ?
2.How long a non EU have to be dependent on EU spouse ?

Quick response would be very much appreciated ....

Regards

[Ben]

1.Does it mean if after 3 years couple is even seperated the non EU can retain his residency ?

No. What you have quoted refers to family members of a EU national, who are themselves EU nationals, and their status in the event of death or departure of the EU national exercising Treaty rights.

2.How long a non EU have to be dependent on EU spouse ?

Please expand your question. There are categories of family members, to whom the provisions of the Directive apply, yet they are not required to be dependant on the EU national at any time.

[zafarzafar]

Thanks Banifa
My question is very simple. Suppose i am a Non EU national holder of 4 EUFAM card (5 years), If after 3 years (36 months) on getting 4 EUFAM we get seperated or divorce or marriage annultment or my EU spouse departure from state.
My Concerns: What what would be effct on my residency ?
What are my rights ?
and how i can retain my residency ?
Would i loose my residency because i am no longer living wit my EU spouse ?
My Personal Circumstances:
I am in full time employment.
I am Irish University qualified.
I have no criminal Record.
I have private medical Insurance .
I am healthy
If my question id still not clear plz ask again
Regards

[Ben]

If after 3 years but before 5 years of marriage, my understanding of Directive 2004/38/EC is as follows:

Separated - no effect on your right to reside. You are still a family member described Article 2(2) of the Directive.
Divorced - Your right to reside is retained, according to Article 13(2), if you have lived in Ireland for at least one year before the divorce.
Marriage annulment - As per divorced.
EU spouse departure from state - your right to reside is lost.

[zafarzafar]

Thanks Banifa for your quick reply again....
I have 2 Question again:
1. The 3 years time would be counted from the date of marriage OR from the date of getting stamp 4 EUFAM ?

2. You Quoted: " EU spouse departure from state - your right to reside is lost."
Why my residence rights would be lost when i am in full time employment and living like a normal citizen in the country. For example if my EU spouse don't like me or she wanted to live with some body else in her own country why should i suffer ?????????

[Ben]

Thanks Banifa for your quick reply again....
I have 2 Question again:
1. The 3 years time would be counted from the date of marriage OR from the date of getting stamp 4 EUFAM ?

(a) prior to initiation of the divorce or annulment proceedings or termination of the registered
partnership referred to in point 2(b) of Article 2, the marriage or registered partnership has
lasted at least three years, including one year in the host Member State;

2. You Quoted: " EU spouse departure from state - your right to reside is lost."
Why my residence rights would be lost when i am in full time employment and living like a normal citizen in the country. For example if my EU spouse don't like me or she wanted to live with some body else in her own country why should i suffer ?????????

Because you would no longer be a family member of an EEA national who is exercising Treaty rights in Ireland.

[zafarzafar]

thanks banifa for classifications. you are a star...u should be a solicitor dude

[Ben]

thanks banifa for classifications. you are a star...u should be a solicitor dude

You're very welcome. But I'm not a solicitor, nor am I qualified to be one. And my opinions and interpretations may be wrong!

[lakeside1234]

If after 3 years but before 5 years of marriage, my understanding of Directive 2004/38/EC is as follows:

Separated - no effect on your right to reside. You are still a family member described Article 2(2) of the Directive.
Divorced - Your right to reside is retained, according to Article 13(2), if you have lived in Ireland for at least one year before the divorce.
Marriage annulment - As per divorced.
EU spouse departure from state - your right to reside is lost.

I agree that Benifa,s contribution to immigrationboards is priceless and most of the time very professional,I would have assumed myself that he was a solicitor,but I think he was wrong in saying if the EU citizen departs from the state the you loose your residency rights.It is very clear that once you have been married for 3 years and resident in the state for 2 years then you entitled to stay in the country if you yourself can provide evidence that you are working at the time,but saying that every country interpretes the directive differently so there may be hiccups in some cases,but fundamentally once you are married for 3 years and resident in the state for 2 years it is sufficient.

[zafarzafar]

Thanks lakeside and Banifa for your openions but still we are not 100% sure about the directives....
Is there any possibility that we can get precise and full infos from any where ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The 3 years time would be counted from the date of marriage OR from the date of getting stamp 4 EUFAM ?

Date the 4 EU Fam stamp (otherwise known as a Residence Card) is issued is not important for any calculations or applications as far as I know.

What is important is either (1) when you got together as a couple, or (2) when you entered Ireland.

[Ben]

It is very clear that once you have been married for 3 years and resident in the state for 2 years then you entitled to stay in the country if you yourself can provide evidence that you are working at the time

Sorry lakeside, but I have to disagree with you there. Unless I'm mistaken, there is nothing in the Directive, nor in relevant case law, which provides entitlement to reside solely on the basis of 3 years marriage to an EU national and 2 years residence in the State.

[Dr. K]

We are in Ireland and DOJ is our GOD Father, they have their own rules and regulation. People always talk about EU Law but DOJ has different law and policies. Anyone can go to the Court against DOJ and possible will win but it will take several years.

A very first thing to know is, everyone who is non Irish has to update DOJ about current changes, which even includes change of address. Change of Matial status is a very serious issue and you must need to inform to DOJ about it with the request that you want to keep your current status (EUFam) and provide them 10000000000000 reasons, it's depend on them they will accept your request or not.

If you are student and got married to EU Citizen, your status will change from Student to EU Spouse, if you got divorced you will be no longer of EU Spouse and DOJ will change your stamp from EUFam to stamp 4, if they accept your request.

Can anyone travel to europe on stamp 4 EUFam without visa and without EU Spouse, the answer is BIG 'NO'. Even if you want to travel a country of your EU wife (except few countries), you need a visa. Accept or not you are nothing without your EU Spouse, you got stamp 4 EUFam because of her rights not yours. If he/she continously living in Ireland you can continue enjoy stamp 4 EUFam otherwise if she/he left Ireland permanently your stamp has no value because you have right to live with him/her not alone or without EU Spouse.

3 years they count from the date, when DOJ change your status. You can not count your student or visit or other legal or illegal period. All status are different from each other. Some says about 3 years law but has no example.

It's my personal opinion that DOJ is not going to give Irish Citizenship to thousands of people. We all knows what is happening around, people has no religious marriages, no childrens and even they are not living together but enjoying EU rights. Enjoy, but don't forget Ireland is famous for his worst Immigration System.

[lopelo]

Separated - no effect on your right to reside. You are still a family member described Article 2(2) of the Directive.
Divorced - Your right to reside is retained, according to Article 13(2), if you have lived in Ireland for at least one year before the divorce.
Marriage annulment - As per divorced.
EU spouse departure from state - your right to reside is lost

1.The new status of permanent residence for EU citizens and their family members after five years uninterrupted legal residence in the State is lost only in the event of more than two successive years’ absence from Ireland or in circumstances where removal procedures have been commenced against the person concerned.

2.The death of the EU citizen, his/her departure from Ireland, divorce, annulment of marriage or termination of partnership will not affect the right of family members who are not nationals of a Member State to continue residing in Ireland, subject to certain conditions.

3.Under the Directive, Member States have the power to expel persons from their territory. EU citizens or their family members may be expelled on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. However, before making such a decision the host Member State must assess a number of factors such as how long the individual concerned has resided on its territory, his/her age, state of health, family and economic situation, social and cultural integration into the host Member State and the extent of his/her links with the country of origin.
Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service
Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

[Ben]

Hi lopelo.

You have quoted my post - but not my whole post. Preceding what you have quoted was, "If after 3 years but before 5 years of marriage, my understanding of Directive 2004/38/EC is as follows:". What comes after, therefore, applies to family members who have the right of residence - not the right of permanent residence.

1.The new status of permanent residence for EU citizens and their family members after five years uninterrupted legal residence in the State is lost only in the event of more than two successive years’ absence from Ireland or in circumstances where removal procedures have been commenced against the person concerned.

You are referring to the right of permanent residence, after 5 years. This is different from the right of residence, which an applicable family member would have at 3 years.

2.The death of the EU citizen, his/her departure from Ireland, divorce, annulment of marriage or termination of partnership will not affect the right of family members who are not nationals of a Member State to continue residing in Ireland, subject to certain conditions.

That text not in the Directive. It is similar to Article 12(1), however the said article refers to family members who are nationals of a Member State. In addition, are you referring to family members who have the right of residence, or the right of permanent residence? What are the certain conditions?

3.Under the Directive, Member States have the power to expel persons from their territory. EU citizens or their family members may be expelled on grounds of public policy, public security or public health.

<snip>

This is correct, however unrelated to the OP.

[knapps]

alot of people are involved in shame marriages here and then come back asking what the rights are...this is disgusting!! i am not targetting anyone here but it is just being observed and i know alot of people who have done it and continue to do it.....shit thing to do!!!

[lopelo]

Hi lopelo.

You have quoted my post - but not my whole post. Preceding what you have quoted was, "If after 3 years but before 5 years of marriage, my understanding of Directive 2004/38/EC is as follows:". What comes after, therefore, applies to family members who have the right of residence - not the right of permanent residence.

sorry benifa,thought it was related to it.

[zafarzafar]

Hi lopelo.
hi there
You have quoted my post - but not my whole post. Preceding what you have quoted was, "If after 3 years but before 5 years of marriage, my understanding of Directive 2004/38/EC is as follows:". What comes after, therefore, applies to family members who have the right of residence - not the right of permanent residence.

sorry benifa,thought it was related to it.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

alot of people are involved in shame marriages here and then come back asking what the rights are...this is disgusting!! i am not targetting anyone here but it is just being observed and i know alot of people who have done it and continue to do it.....shit thing to do!!!

It is interesting what different people see.

I have been aware of only one "sham" marriage so far in my life, which was actually between two people who had been a couple for at least a year already and who did not really want to be married but it allowed them to stay together in moving from one country to another. That was almost twenty years ago.

Why do I not know “a lot of people who have done it?â€