Citizenship timeline tracker.

[bluewing]

Its great to see all the approval letters, mind you they are for people that applied 4 months after I did, which still shows there is no true order to their processing scheme.

Could I just ask out of those who got approval recently, were you dealing with the Dublin office on burgh quay or the Tipp office? Myself and my sister applied 2 months apart, and mine is being dealt with by Tipp, hers by Dublin, Just wondering which is the better, Tipp seems much quicker as she only just asked for her P21 etc and I had that request over 6 months ago.

Whats everyones view on this?sing scheme.

[sideshowsue]

There is strong anecdotal evidence to suggest that the Dublin office is sitting on applications. Ostensibly this is due to the widespread resistance to the government's decentralization plans. The rationale being, I guess, the longer they take to process applications, the longer it'll be before they must pack up and move.

Hopefully now that the government has scrapped its plans to pursue further decentralization, the Dublin office will no longer have reason to drag its feet.

True, for many of us (I applied in August 2006), our applications are currently stalled at the level of 'outside agencies.' Each time I've phoned, the status of my application has not budged even a cat's whisker beyond 'waiting for Garda and SW checks.' (Garda check was requested in September 2008--no idea about SW since getting a straight answer from those manning the phones is difficult).

But the situation seems to be that INIS request these reports and once they get back loads of reports, caseworkers then allocate them to the respective applications. Unfortunately, it is impossible to know what is the source of the backlog of processing these external reports. Is it at the point of the outside agencies, even though the information they are requested to provide should only take a couple of minutes to retrieve? Or is it at the point of INIS staff who don't seem to press these outside agencies to return the reports in a punctual manner and who even perhaps are less than enthusiastic to allocate returned reports in a timely fashion?

Either way, the processing of applications is unacceptably delayed. Of course, with the recent flurry of approvals that have been reported recently, there is reason to hope that the gears of INIS's internal machinery have engaged and things are starting to move.

[bluewing]

Thanks for the response sideshowsue. I did believe there were sitting on them, but even mine with Tipp is still taking ages, I've seen people on the spreadsheet apply at the same time, or up to 5 months after me, all with approval already! It just doesnt make any sense, I applied in Feb/Mar 06 and still waiting..

[nanette]

For what it is, a "privilege and not a right" as one seems to repeat frequently, there is still a compulsive lack of consideration to the people that have significantly contributed to this irish economy that they helped trash...

I find it troubling that the government does not seem to learn from other advanced countries: Ireland needs bloody foreigners to help advanced the country. Ireland cannot do it by herself. There is noway.

I frankly think the policy makers are out of touch to some degree.

As the path to citizenship is a "privilege" just like that individual seem to bark out loud in arena then beyond any daily point scoring and petty bickering, We demand a "right" to know our situations. We've given years of our lives to Ireland and Ireland has done so much for us that I suffer no illusion to feel compelled to say I am grateful for that.

Irish people are great people that respect and acknowledge talents and I am bashed with shame and embarassment to see that the government lacks common sense for what it calls a "privilege" knowing that there are people lined up on that so called "privilege" path to citizen for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years waiting....especially when they have fully contribute to system.

Their only sins is being tha' foreigner.

The Justice system does not fight for RIGHTS, it fights "privileges".

Nanette

[YMC]

For what it is, a "privilege and not a right"

The citizenship may well be a privilege (debatable), but the right to have your applicaiton processed expeditiously, fairly and, what most of us cry about, chronologically is a RIGHT, which dervices from legal principles of due process, equality, non-discrimination and good governance. As simple as that.

[tom4]

For... ...fights "privileges".

Nanette

Who's bed did you get out of the wrong side of this morning???

[nanette]

The system focuses on what it has described as a "privileges", a single mindset representing a collective many.

Well Tom, it is that same bed for the last time 10 years I have been wakening up, going to work, paying taxes and pushing the boundaries of intellect to different frontiers and this has happened sometimes from sun up until sun down, from can see in the morning until can't see in the night.

The system shall set me free, I don't want to be "privileged", I just want to be irish.

I want the system to "un-privilege" me and treat me like a goddamn citizen.


Nanette

[goodone]

Very well said.

[tom4]

The system ... ... a goddamn citizen.


Nanette

I know, we probably all feel like that. No offence intended, many of us have little outbursts building up for a while now. It was nice to see someone writing it.
After 5 to 10 years of commitment to this country, working, paying taxes, etc. and putting up with a relatively low standard of living, it is the least that they owe us by way of a token gesture in return.
As you say, it seems to represent the collective national mindset, yet they expect O'Bama (Irish??? Ha ha ha!!!) to do something for all the "undocumented" irish (ILLEGAL immigrants) in the US. Is that a double standard, or what?

[jhbmike]

The system focuses on what it has described as a "privileges", a single mindset representing a collective many.

Well Tom, it is that same bed for the last time 10 years I have been wakening up, going to work, paying taxes and pushing the boundaries of intellect to different frontiers and this has happened sometimes from sun up until sun down, from can see in the morning until can't see in the night.

The system shall set me free, I don't want to be "privileged", I just want to be irish.

I want the system to "un-privilege" me and treat me like a goddamn citizen.


Nanette

My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS Im sure that Tom wasnt being mean spirited.

[tiggs]

Well said Tom4 and Nanette

You said whats on me mind. I love the place the people and have been contributing big time to economy,public tax coffer and public health over last decade or so...that's why opting for naturalization . We are not freeloaders, we are in queue (randomized ignored unjust queue) for a privilege, which is done deal in countries like US , Auz even UK.. if you have contributed legally.

Regards
Tiggs

[BDSK2003]

Called This Morning.

Apparantly, After Garda Checks, Dept has started to do Social Welfare Checks again.....to see if the circumstances has changed since last check.... like claiming unemployment benefits etc....

I was told 4 weeks ago that the file is ready to be submitted to Minister and i should hear from Dept in few weeks...but that's not the case now.

Looks like It's still good few months away and more wait for applicants of 2006.

BDSK

[sideshowsue]

Anybody else wait for ages to get through? Took me a full hour to get through to an operator!

Anyway, INIS is still singing from the same hymn sheet: O.U.T.S.I.D.E A.G.E.N.C.I.E.S.

Garda check requested in September 2008, SW check requested 15 December 2008--neither has come back yet.

I asked the very nice woman on the phone "Should I ring back in a year's time? Might you expect to have the information by then?"

She, without a trace of irony, said "Try ringing in 6 months."

WTF.

[nanette]

And I have paid roughly for 10 years = 12 months * 10 years * 2500 euros tax monthly = 300000 euros.

Yes, that's what it is more less 300K euros paid to the government in work tax only.

I would hope someone is listening to us and reading. The treatment is unbearable.

My soul feels confined into a "privileged" path to citizenship. I just want to be Irish.

Unprivilege my mind, my soul.

May one day, on that day we all seek Justice that every single soul confesses to...including for those who make the laws, the selections and the privileges.

Enough !

Nanette

[cnu]

Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0507/integration.html


Ireland
Non-Irish job seekers face discrimination
Thursday, 7 May 2009 10:27

A study has found evidence of discrimination by employers against people with non-Irish names.

The Economic and Social Research Institute conducted the research into Irish and non-Irish job applicants.

As part of the research almost 500 CVs were sent in response to job advertisements.
Advertisement

Pairs of CVs with matching details and different names were sent in response to 240 jobs advertisements.

The two fictitious applicants had identical qualifications, skills and experience yet those with Irish names were more than twice as likely to be called for interview.

Compared to other countries the level of discrimination revealed in Ireland is high, according to researchers.

The Equality Authority's Richard Fallon said the findings point to a needless loss of opportunity if employers do not look at the skills behind names on job applications.

[YMC]

Garda check requested in September 2008, SW check requested 15 December 2008--neither has come back yet.

In the same boat, I dont even bother with smalltalk/rant anymore once they mention those magic words, o.u.t.s.i.d.e.a.... Just curious, how were you able to get the date of SW check request out of them? They keep telling me they would not tell the date, and that they could not see it from the system even if they wanted to tell. Another damned lies?

[another_immigrant]

Hi A_I,
1. I was told it would take 6 to 8 weeks for the decision.
2. A friend of mine (applied Oct 2006, approval early March), was "with minister" for 2 months - January - March.
So your estimations are a bit too optimistic

A_I, if you came back 3 pages, you would see the above.

U0543, did you ring them ? I've received my approval letter! finally after 33 months...(application July/Aug 06) The documents were submitted to the minister in the 1st week of April 09. It looks like my calculation is correct. The approval letter is issued between 4 to 6 weeks after all checks and documents are complete.
I'll keep you up-to-date.
A_I

[sideshowsue]

Garda check requested in September 2008, SW check requested 15 December 2008--neither has come back yet.

In the same boat, I dont even bother with smalltalk/rant anymore once they mention those magic words, o.u.t.s.i.d.e.a.... Just curious, how were you able to get the date of SW check request out of them? They keep telling me they would not tell the date, and that they could not see it from the system even if they wanted to tell. Another damned lies?

The woman on the phone just blurted it out. She was obviously reading the information directly from her computer screen: "OK, you applied in August 2006, we acknowledged your application in September 2006. We requested documents in September 2008. The Garda check was requested in September 2008 and SW on the 15th December 2008..."

My past experience has been like yours: INIS is very cagey when it comes to giving dates about the Outside Agencies [There is something so absurd, impenetrable and Kafkian about these Outside Agencies that they should have their own dedicated ministry: The Department of Outside Agencies--its remit will be to be a faceless, opaque, unreachable and totally unaccountable entity whose sole purpose is to prolong and delay the provisioning of any public service: Need a kidney transplant--we're waiting on Outside Agencies to approve your request. Need to have your qualifications accredited: Outside Agencies will get back to you in due course....]

Anyway, it seems like we have to bunker down and dig in for the long haul because the Outside Agencies need a year to provide information that should only take minutes to retrieve.

Grr...

[EBS]

A.I. , great news for you !!! Congratulations!!!!

Where the letter was from? Tipp. or Dublin ?

[u0543]

A_I, if you came back 3 pages, you would see the above.

U0543, did you ring them ? I've received my approval letter! finally after 33 months...(application July/Aug 06) The documents were submitted to the minister in the 1st week of April 09. It looks like my calculation is correct. The approval letter is issued between 4 to 6 weeks after all checks and documents are complete.
I'll keep you up-to-date.
A_I

Hi A_I, thank you for your update and my congratulations.
Yes, I rang them today and was surprised to know they had not changed their mind and they still said my application had been submitted to minister (however they were unable to provide the day of submission ).
So, your calculations are good for you but they don't work for me .
My 37th month is coming to the end...

[another_immigrant]

A.I. , great news for you !!! Congratulations!!!!

Where the letter was from? Tipp. or Dublin ?

Tipp office...

[another_immigrant]

U0543, did you ring them ? I've received my approval letter! finally after 33 months...(application July/Aug 06) The documents were submitted to the minister in the 1st week of April 09. It looks like my calculation is correct. The approval letter is issued between 4 to 6 weeks after all checks and documents are complete.
I'll keep you up-to-date.
A_I

Hi A_I, thank you for your update and my congratulations.
Yes, I rang them today and was surprised to know they had not changed their mind and they still said my application had been submitted to minister (however they were unable to provide the day of submission ).
So, your calculations are good for you but they don't work for me .
My 37th month is coming to the end...

They should be able to tell you the submission date. Send them a letter and ask kindly what date it was submitted.

it shouldn't take more than 4/6 weeks. I have a feeling that it'll be for you ok next week as well. But there are cases here like 6 weeks or a bit longer. However the general waiting time for approval is really 33/36 months as opposed what's stated as 23 months officially....Please Read through the postings here. Fingers crossed.
A_I

[jhbmike]

My whole family and I made use of Dental Benefits, Healthcare, Children's Allowance etc.

The only thing we never used was Jobseekers Allowance.

I had no problem getting naturalised.

You guys are becoming neurotic. One guy even asked whether getting caught driving in a bus lane would disqualify him. Get real!

It seems that we arent becoming neurotic. It seems people have been refused for traffic offences. Take a look at Archigabes post in Citizen Timeline Tracking Sticky.

[jhbmike]

Congrats AI

[tom4]

It seems that we arent becoming neurotic. It seems people have been refused for traffic offences. Take a look at Archigabes post in Citizen Timeline Tracking Sticky.

Here's a link to the article.
http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/press_detail.php?id=91
The table is quite revealing regarding the huge numbers, rejection rate, fees, and short timescale that other countries achieve (we'll forgive the Immigrant Council for using the official processing time instead of the actual one )
It makes a nonsense of the ministers statement "Any examination of systems in other countries, I would hazard a guess, would show the process takes even longer than in Ireland." Guess?, he clearly hasn't a clue!