Got my HSMP approval!!

[Vayu]

Guys, I have been a passive user of this and the old forum and it has been very helpful. So its time I gave something back. I used to go by the name of Samran, but that name doesn't want to work on this new board.

But I digress.

Anyway, as the subject line suggests, I got my approval for my under 28 HSMP today in the mail.

A couple of vital stats:

Nationality - Australian/Thai dual nationality
Age - 27 at application (28 now)
When applied: 13 Jan 2004
Aproved: 19 March 2004
Got letter in the mail: 26th March in Australia

So a little over 2 month wait for those who have applications in the backlog. My application number was in the low 11,000's

A bit more info about my application.

- Job: Economist/Analyst.
- Education: B.Economics (honours) from a top tier Australian university (15 POINTS)
- Income: Cause I worked in SE Asia (Thailand) and earned a little over 14,000 pounds per year. (35 POINTS)

- No of years expereince: In total, 4.5 years claimed, including 1 year specalist expereince in my last job. Consisting of 3.5 years following graduation, working for the Thai government as a consultant, and before that with an international consulting firm. I also included a futher 12 months worth of vacation internships with various companies and counted that as "graduate level". (50 POINTS)

What my application contained; What I claimed and how I proved it: (alhough I don't know how I was scored me, this is what I did):

- Cover letter, summarising my income, work expereince and past employers. This also included a table of contents for the application.
- Copy of my resume to put things into context
- Completed Application form (under 28)
- Notarised copy of my passport.
- Letter from all my employers previous and present, outling my position and duties, all using company letter heads.
- As I claimed specialist level points, I got a letter from the deputy permanent secretary of the ministry I worked for, vouching for my "specialist" economic role, and outling that role which was essentially working on regulatory economics.

- For my income, I included:

1) a letter from my last employer stating my income level.
2) translation of my Thai tax return from the past year. I had this translation officially translated, and I got the British Embassy in Bangkok to notarise/legalise this translation for me.
3) Photocopies of my paycheques
4) My actual bank passbooks and statements, where I highlighted deposits of my salary over the past 12 months
5) An original copy of my contract.

To prove that I was employable in the UK, copied about 6 or 7 job advertisments from the Economist Magaizine, which stated job descriptions and potential salary.

All my documents and letters contained phone and contact details, if the HSMP wished to follow up on them.

Many of the documents I actually drafted myself. I sent them off to previous employers, saving them time. This also ensured I had control of what was put in the letters. Of course, everything was factually correct and they had the opportunity to change things if they wanted. In all cases, they were happy to put my version on an offical company letter head and they sent it back to me.

All this was put into a bound folder, with plastic sleves. Each section was separated with tabs to make it "easy" for the HSMP offical to find things.

Anyway, so thats how I did it. Hopefully it has been helpful. Please feel free to ask any questions publically, and I'll be happy to answer them. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME THOUGH, AS I WONT REPLY. We need to share this info with everyone.

Cheers
Samran/Vayu

[kishorebhosale]

Congrats Vayu. We appreciate your honest turnaround to share the experience with us.

[Kayalami]

Many congratulations on your achievement. Given your qualifications and work experience you are a perfect fit for the ethos of the HSMP programme. Many posters will appreciate the level of detail you have given in relation to relevant documentation submitted and the manner of such in particular the legwork for referees coupled with your patience...I don't recall frequent 'which ref number are HSMP Team processing now/ where is the queue' queries from you. Your HSMP EC should be a a mere formality...the U.K. and especially the inland revenue await you .

[Chess]

Congratulations Vayu/Samran

Good Luck with the EC and job hunting....

One of the regulars on this forum - Madankumars used to say that UK is backward and Australia is miles better - so we look forward to your contributions on this subject

[Cosmopol]

Many posters will appreciate the level of detail you have given in relation to relevant documentation submitted and the manner of such

Absolutely! Even though I'm not an applicant myself, it's been a pleasure to read -- loved the structured approach, the reciprocity towards this community, and a well defined position... all the 'i's are dotted, all the 't's are crossed.

To rephrase one caring poster here: once in the UK just be patient - and you won't get on the 'endangered species' list

Congratulations!

[Dip]

Congratulations Vayu,

Are you an Equity or FX analyst? Market is good for both right now! Good luck.

Rgds
Dip

[Vayu]

Thanks all for your comments and best wishes.

To kishorebhosale: I hope my experience can help answer some of those nagging questions that everyone (including myself) had!

To Chess: It will indeed be interesting to compare the UK to Australia. Have visited the UK many a time, and always loved it, even if the weather is crap. Although I had a ball living in Bangkok (totally above board fun too) it will be interesting to see if I actually like living in London!!

To Kayalami: You are a Goddess (if I am not mistaken!!) You are one of those rare people in the world who make can make something like this site work. Your wealth of knowledge is invaluable and has certainly helped me in the past. Don't think I was too patient though, I must admit, I have called the home office often in the past couple of weeks asking where my application was in the queue!

To Cosmopol: Ditto for your info contributions to this site. Fantastic. Will take your advice and make sure that I do better than average in the UK job market.

To Dip: Mate, I am a policy wonk....unfortunately don't really think much of the financial markets. Am going to target either the economics stream of the civil service - thankfully I am Commonwealth citizen, and that still counts for something. It pays well enough though not the big bucks of the city. Otherwise I'll look at working for a economics consulting firm...consulting to government. If you ever watched the West Wing...you'll get an idea of the stuff I like to work with!!

[JayGee]

Congratulations!!!

[ND]

Many of the documents I actually drafted myself

Vayu,

If you dont mind can you show us the sample doc u drafted for Experience Letter.Please remove all the names etcc which are confidential.I just wanted to see the sample.

Thanks in advance.

[Subbukwt]

Congrats, Vayu! And wish you all the best.

May you find the UK economy more "accomodating" !!!
While not intending to dampen your enthusiasm, you might want to do a hard reality check on whether you will get a job here in the UK or not, whatever be your qualifications and skills.

I have a professional CIMA qualification from the UK and just like you, had come here with stars in my eyes of getting a job here. I have worked in good multinationals back in India and good companies in Kuwait. I have extensive experience in my field and to be sure, see hundreds of new jobs being advertised in the UK everyday matching my profile.

HOWEVER....
Two months on, am still struggling to get my first job. Temporary, 3 month jobs to permanent high-profile ones - all of them need the much over-rated "UK experienced" tag.

I expanded the base to search for jobs outside London...BUT...since my CV contains a London address, things are redirected back to me saying since I am in London, I should contact London consultants. I am sure this is done without even reading the covering letter expressing my willingness to be located anywhere in the UK.

So, if you DO NOT have the EXACT qualifications, with the EXACT experience, with the EXACT number of years of experience, with the EXACT phrase in your CV describing what they want, in the EXACT industry and if you dont have UK experience, you are unlikely to find a job.

It wont help to show that you have had far richer experience than what is demanded for the role and you are really talented but you are willing to settle for the role. NEVER. Versatility may be damned!! Specialisation is taken to extremes here.

Just think about it...if the UK had such fantastic systems of education and work, why would they want to import skilled people from abroad? Think before jumping in haste and repenting at leisure.

I cannot agree more with madankumars now that I see things for myself.

All the best. I think I will be packing my bags in the next couple of weeks. It is just not worth it.

[ND]

Hi Subbukwt,

I am not sure in which field u are searching job.But as u are already here i suggest i try for another 2 months ...but then its up to u .

1.Did u try to apply directly to the Company instead of applying to agencies?
2.Try to search for direct company ads and apply them.

For Ex:Try this website:www.theitjobboard.com

You can find atleast a couple of adds directly for employers.Also you can find some in monster.

Excuse my if you have already tried these.I am just trying to help U ...

3.Also search for the company names who will be looking for people with u'r skillset and apply to them directly.

4.Also do some littl altrations before u send u'r resume to the concultant some times they are blind ... so if u think u are exact match call them and discuss with them act smart and try convincing.

I WISH U ALL THE BESTTTTTTt ....

P.S : DONT GIVE UP JUST TRY FOR 2 MORE MONTHS AS U ARE ALREADY HERE ... TRY FOR 1 or 2 MORE MONTHS ... FINALLY ITS UP 2 U ...

[Chess]

All the best. I think I will be packing my bags in the next couple of weeks. It is just not worth it.

Sub,

Really sorry about this situation but dont give up..

It seems like your focusing your search on 'recruitment agencies'. Despite the fact that the majority of Accountancy jobs are advertised in this way - the reality is that there is high competetion for these jobs which is made worse by your lack of UK experience.

My advice to you is broaden your search base and think about applying directly to companies. Try public sector as they tend not to be dearly beloved. Get the weekly newspaper regularly and let potential employers know that you are willing relocate.

You should also initially be willing to go for 'the slightly lower' grade jobs to gain the required UK experience...

All the best

[Subbukwt]

Dear ND and Chess:
Thank you very much for your considerate words. That was really nice of you.
FYI - I am a management accountant having done work in financial planning, strategy formulation, project feasibility studies, process study, formulating policies and procedures etc. Jobs are available in this field here.

Yes, I have approached quite a few companies personally and directly through email. Not much luck there either.

And Chess, I am willing to settle for a lesser post and I had applied for some of these ads also. The response was "unfortunately, you are too senior for the post". If I respond to something matching bang-on with my profile, the words change to "unfortunately, there are several other candidates whose qualifications and experience match more closely with the job requirements."

It is a no-go situation, friends. If they dont get you on Clause A, they surely will on Clause B!!!! You are cornered.

What gargantuan stupidity on my part to have resigned my job and come here in search of a career!! Even if I do get a job, I will be stepping back several years in experience due to the over-specialised roles on offer here.

Yes, I tried public sector jobs too. They also need specialist experience in NHS, PCT etc. The sole interview which I had attended for a Primary Care Trust was for a role paying all of £ 18 K!!! (The advertisement mentioned £ 30K p.a. pro-rata...in plain English, it translates to £ 18K gross actually per annum!!!). After tax, NI contributions, I checked that I was earning more 6 years back in India! And what do I tell the Home Office during my renewal time? That I promised them I would land a job in my HSMP original application in the region of £ 40 K to £ 45 K, but instead am making do with £ 18 K? With a family to feed? Thats why I said it is not worth the effort of coming here.

So, take care, folks! Think twice, thrice, 50 times if necessary but be totally aware before coming over.
All the best!

[Cosmopol]

Subbu - regret to hear things are not working well for you... Wish you best of luck for as long as you are willing to stay in the country.

[Subbukwt]

Thanks, Cosmopol.
And I wish everyone in this forum the same.
Regards
Subbu

[Chess]

Thanks, Cosmopol.
And I wish everyone in this forum the same.
Regards
Subbu

Sub,

Many thanx for your good wishes and best of luck whichever decision you take....

However, All good things come to those who wait!, and Obviously Rome was not built in one day!!!

If I were in your position I would give it a bit longer (another 2 to 3 months) and see how things go.

All the best

(P.S..send a PM to DIP. i think s/he is in the financial sector and may be able to give you some more detailed help/advice)...

BTW, it is stated that 90% of people have atleast made a 'lie' on their CV's/resumes in order to get jobs (I am not advocating for this).....so you may have to be 'economical' with the truth on your CV regarding - UK experience) so that you can make a break through

[Vayu]

Many of the documents I actually drafted myself

Vayu,

If you dont mind can you show us the sample doc u drafted for Experience Letter.Please remove all the names etcc which are confidential.I just wanted to see the sample.

Thanks in advance.

Hi ND,

Will try and get them somehow, unfortunately, I wont be near my laptop for the next week or 2, so patience will be required.

And Subbukwt,

I realise what you are talking about. Frankly, I am basing my chances based on all my other Aussie mates who have gone over, with my experience levels, and got decent jobs. Also I am going to use my UK contacts that I met through working in australia and Thailand, and see how they pan out. Definetly expecting to go backwards one or two steps career wise given I have no UK experience, but if I don't go there with high expectations and things dont work out, I am lucky enough to go back to australia if things don't work out.

[Subbukwt]

Thanks, Chess, for all your moral support. Really appreciate it.

Vayu, yes, if you have something to go back to, I guess it might be worth the risk. I was also addressing those people in this forum who do not have that kind of opportunity.
Well, anyway, your experience need not be the same as mine, and I honestly pray it isnt!!!!
Cheers

[Vayu]

Subbukwt,

I wish you all the best with your endevours.

Just to let you know, my background sounds different to yours. I have an economics and policy development background, not accounting or IT, which probably makes me a minority of 1 on this particular chat board.

I am more interested in developing public policy either working for the civil service, or working of a private consulting firm who has government as a client. It pays OK, but I am more interested in working on issues that face the UK to be honest.

It a very broad based area. Some of the stuff I am looking at working in include working on trade negotiations, international relations, labour economics (including immigration policy) or regulatory economics. All this tends to feed in at a high level to what governments and ministers do on a day to day basis.

There tends to be a lot of overlap with policy developments between Australia and the UK, so thats where i hope to be attractive to potential employers.

[Vayu]

As Promised:

Example 1:

Letter from the Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry I used to work for. (Although I don't know if I got the points, I used this letter to claim "specialist position" points. I particularly thought it was important that this letter was from someone extremely senior in the organisation who's word, rather than mine, could confirm that my job was a specialist position. This persons identity was also easily and independently verifiable. For instance, if you typed his name into google.com, his name and CV would be the first link which were returned.)

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to confirm that ********* has been employed by the *********** from October 2001 until 30th November 2003.

In my position as Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of ******, I was responsible for the overall direction of *********** (this organisation's work).

Mr ***** was employed by the office as an external specialist consultant to advise ******** (relevant department) supporting the ********** programme. His appointment was based on his background as consultant both in Thailand and Australia, his understanding of the application of *********, his academic experience in ********* (in this area) and his ability to fluently speak both English and Thai.

In his role, Mr ******** worked closely with senior civil servants and board members of ******** to develop ********* (the stuff I help develop)

The particular areas Mr ********** was responsible for included:

• Project A
• Project B
• Project Z.


Yours Sincerely,





*********
Deputy Permanent Secretary
Ministry of *******
(Easily Verifiable if HSMP want to check)
Bangkok, Thailand


Included in Appendix to my letter, an original copy of my Terms of Reference which outlined my duty. Also included was my original contract


Example 2 from my the deputy director general of my department

Confirmation of Salary and Employment

date

To Whom It May Concern:

This is to confirm that ***** ****** has been employed by the ******, since October 2001 as a full time external consultant working on **** issues.

Employment Status

Mr. ****** present contract runs from August 2002 until July 2004.

Salary and Method of Payment

Mr. ****** Pre-tax salary since August 2002 is ****** baht per month as outlined in his current contract.

After tax has been deducted, Mr. ****** is receives ****** per month, via a Bank of Thailand cheque paid to him on or about the first working week of each month. Mr. ****** does not receive a formal “pay slip” each month.



Yours Sincerely,




Dr **********
Deputy Director General

Ministry of ******
Bangkok 10330
Thailand.

I did include other letters, but they were in the same format as example 2, but they also included my positions.

Hope this helps guys.

[ND]

Thanks a lot Vayu

[goodluck]

Dear all, I applied for HSMP under 28 within U.K
Currently I am on Work permit, which expires in Feb 2005
Application History:

HSMP application Posted to Doncaster by Royal Mail Special Delivery:
Ref. Number: 1511*
Posted: 18th March 04

Charged: 19th March 04
My line manager send the fax stating the reason for treating my application is a matter of urgency:
Reason: I am flying outside U.K to attend a conference. ( Published a paper)

Fax Date: 16th April 04

Decision Made: 19th April 04

Original Documents Received by Royal Mail without decision letter: 21st April 04
Received our passport back with HSMP stamp on 5th May 2004

My case was straight forwarded
Point Break Down:

Claiming 05 points for age
Claiming 25 points for Education (MSc from U.K)
Claiming 25 points for Experience (2 years 5 months exp. within U.K)
Claiming 10 points for Spouse (Msc from U.K, Married couple staying together in U.K over 2 years)
--------------
65 points

I could have gained points under significant achievement but didn't bother.
For FLR(HSM) (submitted before 1st April)
Proof:
last 12 months payslip (myself & wife)
Accommodation: Own a house (Original: Mortage aggrement letter, Land Registry letter)

Feel free to ask any questions.
In my care


Regards,
Goodluck

[axer]

Thanks for sharing your experience, goodluck !

I would like to ask you, - do you know what will happen / has happened to your WP after receiving HSMP ?

[Chess]

Well done 'goodluck'

all the best for the future

[goodluck]

Dear Chess

Thanks for the compliments.

Axer,

HSMP stamp superseded my work permit and I informed my employeer accrodingly.

In theory latest stamp superseded the old stamp in any situations.