Stamp 4 EUFam - no re-entry visa for Ireland needed!

[mendo]

Hi All,

As I found out today the Visa office is not issuing anymore re-entry visas to Stamp 4 EUFam holders.

Now this can be a good thing but it could lead to problems as well.

I am concerned that my wife could be stoped boarding a flight back to Ireland by the likes of Ryan Air or check-in personel from other airlines, not aware of this EU regulation.

Or she could be stoped from traveling back to Ireland by immigration officers in some East European countries that if they don't see a Visa in her passport they might turn her back.

We lost 4 hours today in the Visa office trying to get a re-entry Visa but we were refused.

I suppose all we can do is have all the documents when traveling (marriage cert and the letter from INIS EU Rights) and hope for the best.

Regards,

Mendo
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Ford tourneo connect picture

[Obie]

Hi M8,

So long as you have an Stamp 4 EU FAM, you are exempted from Re-entry visa. It violates the EU regulation anyway. Your wife will not encounter any problem on returning to ireland. You only need to be in the country (ireland) or traveling with i her, as immigration officer in ireland might want to confirm whether or not you are still exercising treaty right in Ireland.

Therefore make sure you are around or you phone is switched on.

Don't worry she will be fine. They have never issued a re-entry visa to holders of stamp4 EU fam anyway. Therefore it is not a new thing.

They issue holders of the first 6 months stamp 4 they issue whiles dealing with your application.

[Ben]

Right of entry
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national
law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.

and..

3. The host Member State shall not place an entry or exit stamp in the passport of family members
who are not nationals of a Member State provided that they present the residence card provided for
in Article 10.

So, not only is no visa required for your wife - the GNIB are prohibited from stamping her passport upon arrival.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

mendo, does your wife already have stamp 4EUFam?

When your wife is travelling alone or when you are travelling together, it is best she carry a copy of your passport and your marriage certificate.

[Ben]

When your wife is travelling alone or when you are travelling together, it is best she carry a copy of your passport and your marriage certificate.

Not required for a person in possession of a valid passport together with a Residence Card described in Article 10.

[ca.funke]

...Not required for a person in possession of a valid passport together with a Residence Card described in Article 10...

It's not required, but to keep yourself out of trouble it's better anyway, especially if your partner is from a country that would usually need a visa.

See >>here<< and in specific >>here<<.

Just recently I had a really hard time travelling from Beirut, Lebanon (BEY) to Prague, Czech Republic (PRG) with the 4EUFam card. Obviously the 4EUFam card was totally unknown in Beirut... Luckily I anticipated some problems and rang Czech-Airlines (CSA) in Beirut long before departure. They insisted that travel was not allowed and we would be denied boarding. It took a week of daily phonecalls between CSA in BEY, CSA's headquarter in PRG and the borderpolice in PRG to ensure we'd be allowed boarding. Quite some hassle, I can tell you.

Luckily no-one of the concerned came up with the idea to ring the Czech embassy in Dublin, as they persistently >>give incorrect information<<. (Don't know if that's still the case?)

As a summary: It's best to carry all papers you can gather, including the laws themselves. One piece of paper or the other might practically save your mule, although legally you're out of trouble anyway of course.

So, not only is no visa required for your wife - the GNIB are prohibited from stamping her passport upon arrival.

Needless to say my wife can now proudly prove that we've been to PRG. I know it's illegal, but the borderguard was too fast in stamping, we didn't manage to object in time.

What are the consequences of that?

Actually I assume that if the passport is full of such (illegal) stamps, we could sue one country or the other to pay for a new passport... But we're not travelling enough to achieve that...

[beulieu]

Hi all,
I'm non-eu holder of eufam-stamp4.I would like to visit my home country alone.do i need to apply for re-entry visa?and if the gnib will give me one?
because they are saying.they wont deliver for holder of eufam cards.thanks for help freinds.

[mendo]

Hi Guys,

Thank you very much for your updates.

The thing is that I don't want to risk at the borders due to immigration officers not knowing the laws of EU or Ireland.

My wife will travel to Ukraine and if she wants to go back to Ireland, the border police in Ukraine might not know that the Stamp 4 EUFam she has in her passport and residence card will allow her to go back to Ireland whitout a visa.
The letter from EU Treaty rights specifies that the residence card is replacing the re-entry visa but, the officers don't speak english and they might not give a shit about the letter.

Regards,

Mendo
________
SMOKE KILLS

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is no way to protect fully against ignorant border guards. If a border guard does not know, then you have to be patient and carefully explain. Your wife might want to carry a cellphone so she can call you, and you can call your embassies emergency consular number in Ukraine.

But airlines do have lists of visas which allow entry into the country. And 4EUFam will be on the list for Ireland. You can check it on some of the airline web sites.

[acme4242]

It might be useful to have a printout from Timaticweb

This is the databaseAirline staff can look up,
when they don't know the visa rules. staff may also refer to
it as the TIM manual, which is the written form.
It's a IATA database. Delta make it available via web.

To tell the truth, I don't understand many of the abbreviations.

I got the following.

National Ukraine (UA)
Residence Ireland (Republic of) (IE)
Transit Germany (DE)
Destination Ireland (Republic of) (IE)
ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW
Germany (DE)

Visa required, except for Those, holding "family member"
residence permit issued by Ireland (Republic of) to a family
member of an E.E.A. national or national of Switzerland,
provided travelling with or travelling to join the E.E.A.
national or national of Switzerland.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

When your wife is travelling alone or when you are travelling together, it is best she carry a copy of your passport and your marriage certificate.

Not required for a person in possession of a valid passport together with a Residence Card described in Article 10.

You are correct that it is not required by any law. But I think it is good practice to keep the copies privately at the bottom of your bag so, if you need to, you can exercise your rights in case you encounter a border guard who refuses you entry based on your normal valid documentation.