Travel to Norway with EU family member andEEA2 family permit

[siddiqr]

Afternoon all

I have a questions and hope i can get some clarity.

I am a pakistani national married to a norwegian citizen for last 2 years. We both are in full time professional employment here in the UK. I was issued an EEA2 family permit in 2007. I have travelled to Norway in past on several occasions but always had a valid Schengen Visa. We recently heard that going by EU Directive 2004/38/EC i could travel to Norway with my EU wife without the need of Schengen Visa. My visit was intended for 9 days only.
I rang Norwegian embassy to double check and they dropped the bombshell that i would need Schengen visa to enter Norway. I was silly enough to have bought the ticket so ended up losing 80 pounds and cancelling my holidays from work etc

This question might have been asked few times ... Am i allowed to travel to Norway without Schengen Visa when i have EEA2 family permit stating 'Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National’. It just seems bizzare that Sweden and Denmark (closest neighbors) allow non-EU family member to enter without such restrictions?

I would appreciate if anyone could shed some light or perhaps share an experience.

Thanks

Riz

[Rozen]

Afternoon all

I have a questions and hope i can get some clarity.

I am a pakistani national married to a norwegian citizen for last 2 years. We both are in full time professional employment here in the UK. I was issued an EEA2 family permit in 2007. I have travelled to Norway in past on several occasions but always had a valid Schengen Visa. We recently heard that going by EU Directive 2004/38/EC i could travel to Norway with my EU wife without the need of Schengen Visa. My visit was intended for 9 days only.
I rang Norwegian embassy to double check and they dropped the bombshell that i would need Schengen visa to enter Norway. I was silly enough to have bought the ticket so ended up losing 80 pounds and cancelling my holidays from work etc

This question might have been asked few times ... Am i allowed to travel to Norway without Schengen Visa when i have EEA2 family permit stating 'Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National’. It just seems bizzare that Sweden and Denmark (closest neighbors) allow non-EU family member to enter without such restrictions?

I would appreciate if anyone could shed some light or perhaps share an experience.

Thanks

Riz

Firstly, it's an EEA Family Member Residence Card, NOT Family Permit!

Secondly, I'm afraid you heard correct. Apparently, you still require a schengen visa for Norway. However, it does not mention anything about a Residence Card! So I'm assuming they don't consider them to be enough on their own. Different countries have different rules. You just have to go to the particular websites of the countries to which you wish to travel. I have attached a link for you.
http://www.norway.org.uk/visas/visas/eea/eea.htm

[Plum70]

It just seems bizzare that Sweden and Denmark (closest neighbors) allow non-EU family member to enter without such restrictions?

You know this from personal experience or a 3rd party report?

[Rozen]

It just seems bizzare that Sweden and Denmark (closest neighbors) allow non-EU family member to enter without such restrictions?

You know this from personal experience or a 3rd party report?

OP is right!
http://www.amblondon.um.dk/en/menu/Cons ... orDenmark/

http://www.swedenabroad.com/Page____23300.aspx

[Plum70]

OP is right!
http://www.amblondon.um.dk/en/menu/Cons ... orDenmark/

http://www.swedenabroad.com/Page____23300.aspx

Happy days!

[86ti]

This question might have been asked few times ... Am i allowed to travel to Norway without Schengen Visa when i have EEA2 family permit stating 'Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National’. It just seems bizzare that Sweden and Denmark (closest neighbors) allow non-EU family member to enter without such restrictions?

It won't help you at the moment but Norway (along with Liechtenstein and Iceland) are or will be bound by the Directive, see Decision of the EEA Joint Committee. The implementation, however, appears to have not materialised yet. Don't forget, Norway may be in the Schengen zone but it is not a member of the EU.

[No Name]

The implementation, however, appears to have not materialised yet

It was implemented into Norwegian law on 2009-02-13. Please see the following link: http://www.lovdata.no/all/nl-20090109-001.html.

[86ti]

The implementation, however, appears to have not materialised yet

It was implemented into Norwegian law on 2009-02-13. Please see the following link: http://www.lovdata.no/all/nl-20090109-001.html.

Thanks a lot for the info. Do you know what it says regards to Article 5(2) of the Directive, i.e. visa free travel for EEA residence card holders.

[No Name]

Please see: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... ry_state0=

The translation is not perfect, but as you can clearly read from section 111, a non-eea national only needs a valid passport to enter Norway if he/she travels with or joins the EEA national.

The law does not mention residence cards (issued in other member states) at all, however I guess the Norwegians will claim that they have followed their obligations in directive 38/2004 as a visa is not required if the non-eea national travels with the EEA national or to join the EEA national.

The practical problem is of course to be able to travel to Norway (Airlines might not let people board without a visa).

I guess the best approach for someone who wants to travel to Norway without a visa would be:

1. Contact the Norwegian embassy and inform them that the law says that you do not need a visa if traveling with or joining the EEA national (supply them with the link to Lovdata)

2. When the Norwegian embassy confirms that you do not need a visa if traveling with the EEA national or joining the EEA national in Norway: Ask them if they know how to travel to Norway without a visa - Which Airlines or Boats will let you board (the embassy will probably reply that this is not their problem, and cannot give you an answer...)

3. Send a formal complaint to the European Commission where you claim that Norway might in theory comply with the directive by demanding only a valid passport, however you can claim that it is practically impossible to travel for example directly from the UK to Norway without a visa as no Airlines or Boats will let you board without a visa (and therefore Norway should specify in the law that residence card (family member of EEA) does not need a visa)).

You could also travel via Sweden to Norway as according to: http://www.swedenabroad.com/Page____23300.aspx

family members of EEA nationals who are in possession of a British "Residence Card of a family member of an EEA national" or "Permanent Residence Card" do not need a visa for visits up to 90 days to Sweden

and then you could legally (if you travel with the EEA national or to join the EEA national) cross the border into Norway from Sweden. It would be advicable however to bring with you printout of the law in case the people at the border control does not know the rules.

[86ti]

The law does not mention residence cards (issued in other member states) at all, however I guess the Norwegians will claim that they have followed their obligations in directive 38/2004 as a visa is not required if the non-eea national travels with the EEA national or to join the EEA national.

They obviously have as their implementation is more generous (fewer formalities) than the directive.

[siddiqr]

Please see: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... ry_state0=

The translation is not perfect, but as you can clearly read from section 111, a non-eea national only needs a valid passport to enter Norway if he/she travels with or joins the EEA national.

The law does not mention residence cards (issued in other member states) at all, however I guess the Norwegians will claim that they have followed their obligations in directive 38/2004 as a visa is not required if the non-eea national travels with the EEA national or to join the EEA national.

The practical problem is of course to be able to travel to Norway (Airlines might not let people board without a visa).

I guess the best approach for someone who wants to travel to Norway without a visa would be:

1. Contact the Norwegian embassy and inform them that the law says that you do not need a visa if traveling with or joining the EEA national (supply them with the link to Lovdata)

2. When the Norwegian embassy confirms that you do not need a visa if traveling with the EEA national or joining the EEA national in Norway: Ask them if they know how to travel to Norway without a visa - Which Airlines or Boats will let you board (the embassy will probably reply that this is not their problem, and cannot give you an answer...)

3. Send a formal complaint to the European Commission where you claim that Norway might in theory comply with the directive by demanding only a valid passport, however you can claim that it is practically impossible to travel for example directly from the UK to Norway without a visa as no Airlines or Boats will let you board without a visa (and therefore Norway should specify in the law that residence card (family member of EEA) does not need a visa)).

You could also travel via Sweden to Norway as according to: http://www.swedenabroad.com/Page____23300.aspx

family members of EEA nationals who are in possession of a British "Residence Card of a family member of an EEA national" or "Permanent Residence Card" do not need a visa for visits up to 90 days to Sweden

and then you could legally (if you travel with the EEA national or to join the EEA national) cross the border into Norway from Sweden. It would be advicable however to bring with you printout of the law in case the people at the border control does not know the rules.

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge
I wrote to norwegian embassy referring to Article 5 of the EU directive and recieved the following reply:

Good morning Mr Siddiqui

Many Member States of the EU interpret Article 5.2 as requiring a visa for a non EU national unless that Member State has issued a residence permit; that the permit is not a document that is intended to be recognised by any other Member State, therefore it is not possible to take forward a complaint on your behalf because Norway required you to obtain a visa.

Regards

Christine Korcz
Action Single Market

To be honest i don't understand what does this mean. Is she saying they are not obliged to recognize the residence permit?

Any thoughts...

[Rozen]

Hmmm.... The plot thickens....

[No Name]

Many Member States of the EU interpret Article 5.2 as requiring a visa for a non EU national unless that Member State has issued a residence permit; that the permit is not a document that is intended to be recognised by any other Member State, therefore it is not possible to take forward a complaint on your behalf because Norway required you to obtain a visa.

Regards

Christine Korcz
Action Single Market

I guess this is the answer you got from Solvit UK, when you complained to them. Please remember that the Solvit centers are part of the national administrations (as the UK administration does not recognize residence cards from other member states it is not surprising that they answer in this way). A complaint to the European Commission would be a better strategy:http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... l#11444_15

[siddiqr]

Many Member States of the EU interpret Article 5.2 as requiring a visa for a non EU national unless that Member State has issued a residence permit; that the permit is not a document that is intended to be recognised by any other Member State, therefore it is not possible to take forward a complaint on your behalf because Norway required you to obtain a visa.

Regards

Christine Korcz
Action Single Market

I guess this is the answer you got from Solvit UK, when you complained to them. Please remember that the Solvit centers are part of the national administrations (as the UK administration does not recognize residence cards from other member states it is not surprising that they answer in this way). A complaint to the European Commission would be a better strategy:http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... l#11444_15

No no .. I got this answer from the Norwegian embassy

[No Name]

"Action Single Market" is the UK Solvit centre and Christine Korcz works for the UK Solvit centre, so I guess you must have got this answer from UK Solvit.

Please see the following document:http://www.europe.org.uk/files/957_solvit.pdf on page 3 it says:

Action Single Market is the UK SOLVIT Centre and is based at the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. For further information contact: Celia Kissoon or Christine Korcz

It could of course be possible that you made a complaint to the Norwegian embassy and they forwarded this complaint to UK Solvit (but that would be quite unusual)

[siddiqr]

"Action Single Market" is the UK Solvit centre and Christine Korcz works for the UK Solvit centre, so I guess you must have got this answer from UK Solvit.

Please see the following document:http://www.europe.org.uk/files/957_solvit.pdf on page 3 it says:

Action Single Market is the UK SOLVIT Centre and is based at the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform. For further information contact: Celia Kissoon or Christine Korcz

It could of course be possible that you made a complaint to the Norwegian embassy and they forwarded this complaint to UK Solvit (but that would be quite unusual)

Really sorry ..until now i was under the impression that the reply came from the Norwegian embassy. Yes i did copy in Solvit
Embassy hasn't even replied yet .. hmm

[ca.funke]

I am a pakistani national married to a norwegian citizen ... issued an EEA2 family permit ... going by EU Directive 2004/38/EC ... I rang Norwegian embassy ...

Hi siddiqr,

to anticipapte the outcome, I think you may travel to Norway without visa, just holding both your passports and the UK-residence-permit (see details below).

If you´re a bit adventurous, you should even be allowed and actually manage to travel without residence-permit, carrying >>just both your passports and the marriage certificate<<, however in this case I´d allow some time to discuss the matter with some border-guards in some office on arrival.

This has long been discussed for Irish 4EUFam cards (which is the Irish equivalent) >>here<<.

The Norwegian Embassy in Dublin >>isn´t much help<<.

On page three of >>above<< thread, it is discussed whether 2004/38/EC is applicable in Norway. Together with >>this<< thread, I am now under the impression that 2004/38/EC is valid in all of the EU, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, but NOT in Switzerland.

Good luck and enjoy Norway, Christian

[86ti]

On page three of >>above<< thread, it is discussed whether 2004/38/EC is applicable in Norway.

We have just established this in this thread (see the 7th message from No Name).

[siddiqr]

On page three of >>above<< thread, it is discussed whether 2004/38/EC is applicable in Norway.

We have just established this in this thread (see the 7th message from No Name).

Still no reply from the Embassy. I have tried ringing as well but no one answers the phones. I am getting a little annoyed now