Urgent: evidence for economical activity

[duzzar]

hi guys, I am an HSMP holder and completed my 4 year period in mid March this year. Covered by recent JR ruling I should be able to apply for ILR now. However, I am really concerned about the evidence for economical activity. I lost my job in early March, which leaves 2 weeks unemployed to my last day of 4 year stay. My payslip and P45 clearly show last day of my employment. Therefore, I can't provide any employer letter and actually no economical activity since then. Is this gonna be a big problem and HO will not be happy about it? If so, what action should I do now? If it is still acceptable, what should I explain to the caseworker when I go to the interview?
Thanks so much for any thoughts.

[jazbaati99]

I may be wrong but if you are doing any job it will be considered as economic activity under old rules? If that is the case, can you not wait till you start any job and with the pay slips apply for ILR.

[Sten]

If that is the case, can you not wait till you start any job and with the pay slips apply for ILR.

I think the point that topic starter is making is that he was unemployed when he reached 4 years. From this point of view it may not really matter if you find it later or not, as you application circumstances time could be "frozen" back to that date. At least this is the approach they take when considering cases where the applicant is unemployed now, but was employed at the date of 4 years according to HSMP Forum FAQ ... not sure if this works the same the other way around though. Looks like a gray area to me ..

[duzzar]

Thanks for above replies.

yes, my concern is that even if I take a job now, it can still not change the fact I was unemployed when approaching 4 years. However, the tricky thing is according to rules, I should have been able to apply up to 28 days before 4 year stay was completed in February, and back in that time I was employed.

I cant find any guidance mentioning about this situation. What should I do?

[Sten]

I think this will be up to caseworker to decide at the moment, hopefully there will be some similar cases processed soon, which will make it more clear.

[GoodFun]

The clock does not restart if you are unemployed on a HSMP visa. The requirement for ILR on HSMP as per part 5 of the immigration rules is that one should be in employment at the time of the application.

The situation is different for Work Permit holders who only have a limited time to get onto a new Work Permit or else their clock resets.

[viren68]

Hello Duzzar,

Why not show some business and some bank transactions to show that you are still economically active.

V

[ejobs_01]

hi guys, I am an HSMP holder and completed my 4 year period in mid March this year. Covered by recent JR ruling I should be able to apply for ILR now. However, I am really concerned about the evidence for economical activity. I lost my job in early March, which leaves 2 weeks unemployed to my last day of 4 year stay. My payslip and P45 clearly show last day of my employment. Therefore, I can't provide any employer letter and actually no economical activity since then. Is this gonna be a big problem and HO will not be happy about it? If so, what action should I do now? If it is still acceptable, what should I explain to the caseworker when I go to the interview?
Thanks so much for any thoughts.

Duzzar,

As an HSMP holder, I think you can be employed or unemployed (actively seeking job) at any time during the validity of your stay here. Assuming you completed 4 years mid March and were unemployed at the time of application, you (as per the recent ruling) can apply any time now. All you need to do is get a job now or start a business or something (just before your application) and show that you are economically active. Although the recent ruling states about application on completion of 4 years (3years & 11 months), I think you are at liberty to apply anytime after that particular date. Personally, I don't see any problem with that but can stand corrected.

The way I see it is "eligible for application on completion of 4 years" and not "eligible for application at completion of 4 years"

Regards,

[duzzar]

Thanks for all the thoughts.
I am a bit worried if the caseworker does challenge me on this point during the interview I am not sure how to defend. Strictly speaking, I am/was not economically active when making application. Maybe I have to set up a business. If so, what docs should I show HO, as I don't think there will be any contract or bank transaction at all.

[tech]

Immigration rules as per this page requires

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/worki ... ettlement/

But the New JR policy document re-instated the orginal rules as per old rules.

But I guess based on the feedback from other posters in the forum, it is all down to caseworker.

[republique]

Thanks for above replies.

yes, my concern is that even if I take a job now, it can still not change the fact I was unemployed when approaching 4 years. However, the tricky thing is according to rules, I should have been able to apply up to 28 days before 4 year stay was completed in February, and back in that time I was employed.

I cant find any guidance mentioning about this situation. What should I do?

Your guidance is to use common sense.
If it was what you say which is that you must be employed when you hit your 4 day mark or thereabout and you weren't, then you would be out of luck and there would be no point to this discussion. As you know under HSMP you do not need to be constantly employed, then it can not be the problem you are creating.
Your main issue is to be employed when you make the application, irrespective that you were eligible earlier and your employment status when you became eligible. Find a job now at mcdonalds if you have to or take some time and find the right job. Under the JR the HO will have to still give you time credit for being eligible at the 4 year mark so you are not going to lose any time anyway unless you make your application after you reach your 5 year mark.

[tech]

The main concern here is for OP is not just about finding new employment.Based on the experiences for some applicants, casewokers still demand evidence for 5 years based on continous employment as listed below link.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/worki ... ettlement/

HSMP forum in their FAQ section, did not mention anything about documentation requirements and did not seek clarification on this.

Even yesterday, they sent another letter to UKBA on some issues but didn't seek any clarification on this issue.

[troyguy21]

I don't know why you are creating unnecessary stress for yourself. The fact that you are eligible for ILR close to 4 or 5 years of stay does not mean you must apply for ILR at that time.

It is all about your economic situation at the time of application that matters because that gives HomeOffice hope at least, you will not rely heavily on benefit since you will be fully entitled to it once ILR is issued to you.

Please get something doing now if you still have FLR that permits you to stay in the country. Once you think you have a bank statement/payslip (if employed), then go for it.

Forget about your economic condition when you were 4yrs but what it is right now that you want to apply.

[ejobs_01]

The main concern here is for OP is not just about finding new employment.Based on the experiences for some applicants, casewokers still demand evidence for 5 years based on continous employment as listed below link.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/worki ... ettlement/

HSMP forum in their FAQ section, did not mention anything about documentation requirements and did not seek clarification on this.

Even yesterday, they sent another letter to UKBA on some issues but didn't seek any clarification on this issue.

Tech,

Bit confusing here. Would that mean that a person cannot have periods of unemployment when on HSMP/Tier 1 category? I hope not because this would mean resetting the clock each time someone is out of work/looking for work.

Regards,

[republique]

The main concern here is for OP is not just about finding new employment.Based on the experiences for some applicants, casewokers still demand evidence for 5 years based on continous employment as listed below link.

No it doesnt stop mucking it up with this info

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... -09-policy

Where does it say in the policy document about being continously employed for ILR.
Guys stop making stuff up, rely on rumours, recap past experiences incorrectly or apply different fact scenarios wrongly to other fact scenarios to get answers or to get people to research stuff for you when it is just as easy to go the bia website and see it for yourself.

[tech]

I was just quoting what is mentioned in the link.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/worki ... ettlement/



How can I settle in the United Kingdom as a highly skilled migrant?

This section explains how you can apply to stay in the United Kingdom permanently (settle) under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP). You should read this section if you have been in the United Kingdom under the HSMP for at least five years.

If you have been in the United Kingdom as a highly skilled migrant for less than five years you should read the section on Extending your stay. If you are currently outside the United Kingdom or are here under a different immigration category you cannot apply to the HSMP. You should apply as a highly skilled worker (Tier 1 General) under the points-based system.
The requirements for settlement

To qualify to settle in the United Kingdom under the HSMP you must:

* have been living legally in the United Kingdom for the last five years; and
* currently have permission to stay in the United Kingdom as a highly skilled migrant; and
* have been in the United Kingdom as a highly skilled migrant, work permit holder or innovator throughout the five years; and
* have maintained and accommodated yourself and any dependants without the use of public funds throughout the five years; and
* have been employed, self-employed or a combination of the two throughout the five years; and
* have sufficient knowledge language and life in the United Kingdom.


If you see the set(O) form, refer to the section 9H, it asks economic activity for your stay which is 4 years.

So If the case worker demand evidence for 4 years, if you don't have it in a PEO appointment, he/she is unlikely process your application.

But HSMP forum didn't address the issue to UKBA which is quite surprising. Hopefully this issue will get resolved when more and more people apply for ILR under HSMP JR .

I am more than happy to be wrong but based applicant's experiences it not cut and dried yet and all down to individual casewoker.

[republique]

I was just quoting what is mentioned in the link.


To qualify to settle in the United Kingdom under the HSMP you must:

* have been living legally in the United Kingdom for the last five years; and
* currently have permission to stay in the United Kingdom as a highly skilled migrant; and
* have been in the United Kingdom as a highly skilled migrant, work permit holder or innovator throughout the five years; and
* have maintained and accommodated yourself and any dependants without the use of public funds throughout the five years; and
* have been employed, self-employed or a combination of the two throughout the five years; and
* have sufficient knowledge language and life in the United Kingdom.

You did not quote it or understand it correctly. It doesn't say continously, meaning every single day of the visa so my point is not negated

[bani]

Some exerpts from the original (pre April 2006) guidance notes, which apply to you, under JR:

"You will be asked to provide evidence of your economic activity during your period of stay in the UK and evidence of your personal earnings during the period, if you are employed. If you are self-employed a business plan and evidence that you have established a business bank account, which has been active, will suffice. If you have been active in employment and self-employment then you should submit evidence of both. You will also need to declare that you and your family have not had access to public funds and have not received a criminal conviction."


"After four years in the UK as a highly skilled migrant you can apply for settlement. The main criteria for settlement will be that you have spent a continuous period of four years in the UK (except for trips abroad of three months or less, totalling less than six months in the four year period) in a category leading to settlement and that you continue to be economically active in the UK as a highly skilled migrant."


My suggestion is to try to find a job (keep proof that you are actively looking for a job) or start a business (get a plan and a bank account), then apply for ILR. If you can show that you have been actively looking for a job since March and you are employed at the time of your ILR application, or have your own business, I think that satisfies the original conditions of HSMP. Don't worry that you were jobless at the four year mark or for some period of time. Good luck.

[willnotbackHSMP]

Republique and Bani said well. This is the real things to consider.

What I can add is that if continuous employment is one pre condition to be successful in HSMP ILR , then no HSMP applicant won't / wouldn't be successful as each and every HSMPian ( who applied from outside UK) didnt get job just after landing UK means he/she was unemployment atleast only for one day.

Continuous employment condition is applicable only for WPians.

[f2k]

Republique and Bani said well. This is the real things to consider.

What I can add is that if continuous employment is one pre condition to be successful in HSMP ILR , then no HSMP applicant won't / wouldn't be successful as each and every HSMPian ( who applied from outside UK) didnt get job just after landing UK means he/she was unemployment atleast only for one day.

Continuous employment condition is applicable only for WPians.

just point of correction, pple used to (and am sure still do) get jobs before HSMP was approved, infact back in the day 2004/2005 it used to take 6/7 months to get approval and those with jobs used to be able to use their job offer to get their case treated as urgent. Anyway the 'continuous activitiy' clause definitely applies for HSMP / Tier1. They just don’t define what exactly it means to be in 'continous' employment'

[GoodFun]

FOI clarifying this very issue. UKBA say you do not need to be employed for the full tenure of your HSMP visa.