Convert 4yrs aggregate on 2 work permits to ILR??

FLL · Post by **FLL** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:27 pm

I arrived in the UK in Mar 98 on 2yr working holiday - got WP Dec 99 (2 yr WP to Dec 01) - made redundant May 2001 (P45=18 May 01) was paid in lieu 3 months notice - returned to South Africa for 1 month upon return to UK was offered 2nd job at a new company - started Jul 2001 but company was slow in securing new WP which was only received 3 Oct 01 (5 yr WP to Oct 2006). Worked in new job since.

Can I apply for ILR as have worked for 48 months but on 2 WP's with 4.5 month break between redundancy and new WP - would have to not disclose that I started work 3 months prioir to new WP so 2nd starting date 5 Oct 01.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:53 am

I don't understand it. Did you work for your new employer from 7/01 to 10/01 relying on your OLD WP?

FLL · Post by **FLL** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:55 am

To be honest at the time I just assumed that as I had leave to remain until Dec 2001 I could stay in the UK and seek work, so I went home for a holiday & returned to the UK at the request of the new company to interview (I had unknowingly been recommended by my previous MD). The company that hired me was in a spot of bother so the company asked that I "informally" start immediately in the position whilst they applied for the new required WP – which I assumed would only take a month, if not a few weeks to come through. The agency that applied for my WP knew that I had started and at no time was I advised that in fact I had had only 28 days to secure the new WP so shouldn’t even be in the UK! As I was paid out my 3 month notice period could I not justify that my actual leaving date from the old company was 3 months later than that on my P45?

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:18 pm

My advice to you- don't apply for ILR as your illegal stay might be discovered and you will be removed from the UK altogether.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:22 pm

You could not work for your new employer with a WP that was issued to your old employer.

FLL · Post by **FLL** » Fri May 07, 2004 2:54 pm

HO saw fit issued me with a second new WP (took long as apparently the department was very busy at that time) which I have been working on for two and a half years - thousands of expats at the time were working full time in permanent positions on a WHV so don't you not think it is a bit drastic to say that I will be kicked out for starting work a few months before my WP came through?...especially with the delays on WP at that time?

DoubtingThomas · Post by **DoubtingThomas** » Fri May 07, 2004 3:09 pm

FLL,

I think it shouldn't be a problem for an ILR - but would advise you too follow what Kay might have to say on this. But, you might be interested to know that an ex-colleague of mine who had a gap of 4 months between 2 jobs (he hadn't started work before the work permit was issued) didn't face any problems.

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes.

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » Sun May 09, 2004 9:32 pm

FLL,
I agree that it seems like you really didn't do the correct thing when you switched jobs (and especially when you reentered the UK on your previous WP when you were unemployed), but since you were granted a new work permit for the last few years, you are probably ok.
Joseph

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Mon May 10, 2004 11:21 am

would recommend you to seek legal advice as you were in breach of your conditions of stay when:

1. You returned to the UK on your WP LTR after you ceased to be employed.
2. You worked for your new employer without a valid WP.

The above breaches might surface when you apply for ILR.

If you read through these forums you can see chilling stories of individuals who made minor and silly mistakes and were kicked out of the UK.

There is even a story of one guy who committed an immigration contravention similar to the one you had committed and was asked leave the UK even though his background is more compelling (immigration-wise) than yours. The guy is married to a UK citizen and has a British born baby.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Mon May 10, 2004 11:55 am

FLL,

If one followed the rules to the 'dot' then you are obviously in breach of the rules - but as you can tell HO has soi many cases to handle that your 'mistake' is unlikely to be noticed....

,.,,....I recommend that you go in person when the time to apply for ILR is nigh - dont do a postal application

Submit tonnes of docummentation when you attend the interview - the guyz will only have to read through your documentation in about 20minutes - for goodness sake - i dount that they will notice the 'errors'

..dont forget that they deal with thousands of applications everyday with some of them requiring alot of time (assylum etc..) I doubt that they will pull you on that one

In any case make sure you apply for ILR when you have got plenty of time on the existing WP

Kayalami · Post by **Kayalami** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:35 pm

FLL wrote:

I arrived in the UK in Mar 98 on 2yr working holiday - got WP Dec 99 (2 yr WP to Dec 01) - made redundant May 2001 (P45=18 May 01) was paid in lieu 3 months notice - returned to South Africa for 1 month upon return to UK was offered 2nd job at a new company - started Jul 2001 but company was slow in securing new WP which was only received 3 Oct 01 (5 yr WP to Oct 2006). Worked in new job since.

What did you state as your purpose of coming to the UK when questioned by the Immigration Officer upon re-entry on or around June/July 2001? Do you recall any other comments/questions by the IO?

FLL · Post by **FLL** » Mon May 10, 2004 2:12 pm

Kayalami, I can't remember any questions by the IO but would have said yes when asked if I was still doing the same work. One of the compromised terms of being paid out in lieu of notice when I was made redundant was that I remain in contact with my ex-department and my equivilent person of the company that took us over, so I had a company laptop in SA and the company reimbursed my phone expenses on my return - so as I was in effect still in contact on almost gardening leave in SA and for a few weeks after my return to the UK until I returned the laptop and said my final goodbyes...perhaps a justification. Although at the time I really didn't think about it as if I had and had known all this I would not have taken a holiday.

Kayalami · Post by **Kayalami** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:57 pm

The facts

1. Under the immigration rules your Work Permit ceases to be valid on the day your employment finishes including any period of notice. Technically your WP and subsequently WP based LTR ceased to be valid on 18 May 2001 because you received a payment in lieu of notice. IMHO the matter of gardening leave is moot as this is encompassed into any notice period where the employer insists that you do not report to your normal place of work. Any issue around the actual termination of your contract is settled by the date on the P45 form - you may wish to verify this with an employment lawyer.

2. You then departed the UK which means that you were no longer in a category leading to settlement and thus your clock counter for ILR purposes was reset to zero.

3. You re-entered the UK on or around June/July 2001 whereupon you told the Immigration Officer you were still in the employment of your previous company which you acknowledge was not true. Being in telephone or other contact is not the same as being contracted. This was your first breach of the immigration laws.

4. You then ‘informally’ worked from July 2001 to 3 October 2001 when your new WP was granted – this was your second breach of the immigration laws.

The reality

1. When you apply for ILR the Home Office will bring up your records on file and see your WP periods. They will also note your entries into the UK and any information recorded on the landing cards by the Immigration Officer.

2. Your original employer may or may not have informed them that your employment had ceased on a particular date. I suspect the company never told the HO you had left their employment.

3. This if matched with the information on the HO database in particular the landing cards can cause problems.

4. You got a second WP without any problems which means your immigration history was not an issue at that time – this does not mean it will not be if you go ahead with an ILR application. However it can be a factor in your favour in any legal tussles with the HO.

5. The Immigration Officers/ caseworkers at the HO have fairly wide discretionary powers and may ignore periods which they deem 'there has been no manifest abuse of the immigration system'.

Only you can decide whether to make an ILR application and bear any potential negative consequences based on the info the HO have on you. The 1st breach is the most serious if it comes up. IMHO the HO if they ingore this breach are likely to grant ILR and ignore the in between WP's gap especially as the policy on WP LTR back then was not detailed at the level it is now. Again IMHO the worst that may come out of it is they refuse the ILR application and tell you to apply further down the line. The HO have bigger fish to fry and more complex cases to resolve with a potential legal tussle in your case seeing them carry the burden of proof – I don't believe they will bother. As per comments by Chess I’d make this an ‘in person’ application if you decide to go ahead.

boylove · Post by **boylove** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:03 pm

I had a 2 months gap between 2 jobs. I didn't use any public funds and didn't work for anyody until I got my new WP. Any problems for ILR?

Thanks in advance!

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:24 am

boylove wrote:I had a 2 months gap between 2 jobs. I didn't use any public funds and didn't work for anyody until I got my new WP. Any problems for ILR?

Thanks in advance!

IMHO no problems - so long as you had a valid 'stay' during the 2 month gap

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Convert 4yrs aggregate on 2 work permits to ILR??

Convert 4yrs aggregate on 2 work permits to ILR??

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