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Well I dont know the borders your talking about but I went through the Arad-Hungary border and yes they should stamp my passport and they did.Majeztic wrote:benifa: she is ROMANIAN
Charles: what is there not to believe,this is what exactly happened to me,which hungarian border did u cross?,u know that there are many,and why have they stamped your passport? should have they not? and concerning traveling with or without the spouse,my wife was with me anyway,there problem is that they thought i needed a schengen visa,if want to know which border I`ll tell you and go and try for urself
Bingo.Majeztic wrote:benifa: she is ROMANIAN
However, Article 5(4) provides:Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 5(2-3) wrote:Right of Entry
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national
law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas
shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
3. The host Member State shall not place an entry or exit stamp in the passport of family members
who are not nationals of a Member State provided that they present the residence card provided for
in Article 10.
Since you and your wife were travelling together, with both your passports and your marriage certificate, you could not be turned away - and you were not. The Hungarian immigration officers were correct in not recognising your Romanian residence permit as a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen. They were also correct in placing an entry stamp in your passport.Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 5(4) wrote:4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not
have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain
the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to
corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and
residence.
WRONG,I do hold a Residence card of a family memberyou do not hold a "Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen"
Benifa : the hungarians were NOT correct ,the permit i have clearly states RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBERS.with a duration of 5 years.and why is it correct that he places a stamp of exit and entry ??The Hungarian immigration officers were correct in not recognising your Romanian residence permit as a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen
You may argue like this but the point is that the Romanians issue the same card just like some other European countries.benifa wrote:Your wife is Romanian and you are both resident in Romania, so unless Singh conditions apply, you do not hold a "Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen", as described in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC.
You are right they shouldn't.Majeztic wrote:and why is it correct that he places a stamp of exit and entry ??
Doesnt the directive say: "THE HOST MEMBER SHALL NOT PLACE AN ENTRY OR EXIT STAMP IN THE PASSPORT OF A FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT NATIONALS OF A MEMBER STATE PROVIDED THEY PRESENT THE RESIDENCE CARD PROVIDED IN ARTICLE 10"
I think it was you who mentioned it once on this forum that bothlook exactly the same in Romania. This means that a boarder guard can't distinguish under which law the card was issued.charles4u wrote:1. Residence card as a family member for 5 yrs - Issued understand national law
2 . Residence card as a family member of an EU citizen for 5 yrs - Issued under EU law.
And that it true so far as i told u I personally never had any problem crossing the border or even in Germany or Denmark where I was stopped once.86ti wrote:I think it was you who mentioned it once on this forum that bothlook exactly the same in Romania. This means that a boarder guard can't distinguish under which law the card was issued.charles4u wrote:1. Residence card as a family member for 5 yrs - Issued understand national law
2 . Residence card as a family member of an EU citizen for 5 yrs - Issued under EU law.
Yes there is 2 types of cards 1.RTR which is temporary valid for 5 yearsHe doesnt understand the difference that there are 2 types of family member cards
Majeztic, has your spouse ever exercised a Treaty right in another Member State?
Was your card issued on the basis of the Romanian or the German citizenship?Majeztic wrote:benifa wrote:Majeztic, has your spouse ever exercised a Treaty right in another Member State?
She has been excercising her rights in Romania as a German citizen for the last 2 years until she got the romanian citizenship last January
Hold on - your wife is also a German citizen? You could have mentioned that!Majeztic wrote:She has been excercising her rights in Romania as a German citizen for the last 2 years until she got the romanian citizenship last January
What we actual mean here is: 1) the non-EEA spouse of a Romanian citizen never having exercised treaty rights before and 2) the non-EEA spouse of an EEA national exercising treaty rights in Romania (or in the case of a Romanian citizen having returned under the Surinder Singh ruling). When either 1) or 2) get residency for the very first time they will get exactly the same card? Sorry for repeating this all over again but I think it is crucial information.Majeztic wrote:Yes there is 2 types of cards
1.RTR which is temporary valid for 5 years
2.RPR which is permanent valid for 10 years
Well first the fact Romania is in EU doesnt mean ur residence is issued under EU law, every EU country still issues under their national law.Majeztic wrote:charles wrote:Yes there is 2 types of cards 1.RTR which is temporary valid for 5 yearsHe doesnt understand the difference that there are 2 types of family member cards
2.RPR which is permanent valid for 10 years
before Romania entered the European union,they issued a permit of 1 year for family members for 2 consecutive years and then for a full 3 years,and then the family member could apply for permanent residency.Once Romania entered the EU they changed the residency permit for family members according to the EU directives.It is not true that one of them is issued under national law! both look the same expect the duration 5 and 10 years and RTR or RPR written on it.
Benifa wrote:
Majeztic, has your spouse ever exercised a Treaty right in another Member State?
She has been excercising her rights in Romania as a German citizen for the last 2 years until she got the romanian citizenship last January
Something like that, this was what I earlier said here and as you can see 86ti these guy said almost the same thing.86ti wrote:What we actual mean here is: 1) the non-EEA spouse of a Romanian citizen never having exercised treaty rights before and 2) the non-EEA spouse of an EEA national exercising treaty rights in Romania (or in the case of a Romanian citizen having returned under the Surinder Singh ruling). When either 1) or 2) get residency for the very first time they will get exactly the same card? Sorry for repeating this all over again but I think it is crucial information.Majeztic wrote:Yes there is 2 types of cards
1.RTR which is temporary valid for 5 years
2.RPR which is permanent valid for 10 years
True, I accept that.charles4u wrote:Lastly...Benifa...something you should still understand, she has a Romanian passport and possibly they applied for his residence with her Romanian passport which will make him get a residence as a family member not a residence card for family members of an EU.
It was issued based on her Romanian citizenshipWas your card issued on the basis of the Romanian or the German citizenship?
The border immigration did not know that she also had German citizenshipHold on - your wife is also a German citizen? You could have mentioned that!
I fail to agree with you here,If she was only Romanian,The directive would still apply.I already had residency in Romania before I married her.That residency was under national law and I could not leave to other Eu countries without a Visa.After marrying her ,they applied the directive ,changed my residency permit.If you wife were a Romanian citizen only, and not having exercised a Treaty right in another Member State, your right to reside in Romania would not come under the provisions of the Directive
I thought as much but still the Romanian passport she has should have her second nationality on it which should still mean that she is just residing in Romania as a permanent foreigner cus she still holds another EU nationality and in this case Majeztic should have gotten a residence card for family members of an EU. (she's a german exercising her treaty rights in Romania by holding a permanent permit)Majeztic wrote:It was issued based on her Romanian citizenshipWas your card issued on the basis of the Romanian or the German citizenship?
.
the permanent permit is not a Romanian passport! after you get the permanent,you can then apply for the Romanian passport.They issue family members same card and after 3-5 yrs you can apply for permanent permit which is also Romanian passport valid for 10yrs
Well ok.Majeztic wrote:Both Cards look the same,BUT as I said before,it can be seen it is Temporary or Permanent.Temporary 5 years and its written RTR or Permanent 10 years RPR.
the permanent permit is not a Romanian passport! after you get the permanent,you can then apply for the Romanian passport.