Will we ever be able to marry?

[hmm]

you are staying in UK legally as an assylum seeker. that's true. unfortunately embassies doesn't see it that way. you enter the country illegally.
from my personal experience, I would advise you to get some sort of confirmation in writing from home office stating that you left UK voluntarily, your files closed and nothing outstanding,etc and hand that with your new application to the embassy. you may be able to get a letter through IOM since they are assising your return. if you can't get one from home office then ask IOM to write to you a letter saying that's what happen and they assist you on your voluntarily return. because when my partner apply to spouse visa embassy put the application in pending and said to us they need to confirm with homeoffice. homeoffice is taking their time to respond to the embassy so we are still waiting. I think embassy need to make sure that you returned voluntarily rather than deported.
can't you not use the same solicitor/lawyer who handled your assylum apeals. they may know more about your case.
you really need to think and prepare which visa you are going to apply and what you going to say in your interview. if you apply for working visa, would you mention your UK partner, is it wise to say that. best to get some advise from an UK lawyer about all these.
let us know what's happening.
good luck

[Marie B]

When my husband applied for his spouse visa he did include his letter/form from IOM to prove that he had returned voluntarily. He also included his copy of his original asylum application, the page with his name, reference number and claimed nationality on it, stamped by the HO. Useful if you have these items to take them with you for your visa application.

As hmm has said, really weigh up which visa you intend to apply for and what you are going to say in your interview. Could it be a problem if your working visa application fails and then you apply for a spouse visa? Would it look like you are getting married in order to get back to the UK rather than because you want to live permanetly with your spouse?

[rmberg1]

hmm and Marie,
I entered the UK legally as an asylum seeker. I arrived at Heathrow with a normal airplane ticket, and I even had a valid visitor visa at that time. But just before entering the country I met an immigration officer and clamed asylum. They conducted an asylum interview and finally asked in what capacity I wish to enter the country: as a visitor or as an asylum seeker. I said as an asylum seeker, so I beleive I entered the UK legally.
On the interview for working visa I want to say the truth about my fiance (there is a question in the application form about close friends and relatives in the UK). The ECO has to understand that I have two choices: working visa and fiance visa. But, since I can't apply for both simultaneously, I have chosen working visa. This is a natural step.
The interesting question in the application form: have you ever been deported, removed or otherwise required to leave the UK? I believe NO, since I haven't got any removal directions as yet and I am leaving voluntarily. What do you think?
Also, I would like to ask Kayalami to join this discussion. His (or her) experience is really great.
rmberg.

[Kayalami]

Marie and hmm,
Thanks for your comments. In fact, I believe I've not overstayed. I applied for asylum in 2001. Although I have lost all appeals etc, I haven't got any removal directions as yet.

On what basis do you continue to remain in the UK given that you seem to have exhausted all applicable legal avenues to appeal? Did refusal notices (to final dismissed appeal) not clearly state a requirement to depart the UK?

[rmberg1]

Kayalami, thanks for your reply.
When the adjudicator dismissed my appeal (in June 2003), he haven't wrote anything about leaving the UK. Moreover, I had a right to appeal to the Tribunal, but I did not exercise it. Instead, my solicitor wrote to the HO and ask for a permission to stay on compassionate grounds.
Then, until July 2004 it was silence. In July 2004 I went to my MP and asked him to find out what's going on with my case. The HO replied that they ignore my compassionate ground application, that they are not going to consider it at all, that the decision of the adjudicator is final. In this letter the HO also wrote: "The steps now will be taken to remove him from the UK". Which steps, I wonder?? I am still waiting for these steps.
Soon I received a letter from NASS that they stop sending me money, and that I have to leave the UK. And they sent me leaflets of IOM.
However, I don't consider these two reminders to leave the UK as official removal directions. Rather, these were 'friendly advises'. To confirm this, I called to the HO and asked what's going on with my case. They said it is still under consideration. In addition, each month I go to the reporting centre, and they also said to me that I haven't got any removal directions.
In fact, I don't know what happens with failed asylum seekers, and is it their responsibility to leave the country. But I have a feeling that the HO simply forgot about my case since June 2003 when I lost an appeal.
This is the situation.

[ilm]

The interesting question in the application form: have you ever been deported, removed or otherwise required to leave the UK? I believe NO, since I haven't got any removal directions as yet and I am leaving voluntarily. What do you think?

I don't think your position is unusual. My wife, in a similar position, has never received any formal notification to leave. In fact the last correspondance was a letter saying the HO computer system was being updated and she wouldn't hear anything for a year and a half. That was 7 years ago! She too went through the appeals process for asylum which ultimately were rejected. She has never received a formal letter telling her she must leave, but I believe the appeals adjudication does say that the applicant should make plans to leave the UK.

It would be helpful to know what overstayers that have applied, put down as the answer to that question? I would tend to think the answer is really 'yes' but regardless of the answer I guess details of the asylum application should be included in the application so the ECO can make up their own mind?

[Kayalami]

rmberg1,

Posts by you, ilm and others on this thread understandably demonstrate the frustration felt by the local populace over the asylum system. To say its in a shambles is an understatement given that many exhausting all legal avenues continue to remain in the UK for years end on. There is a flipside to this on the basis of HO removal policy, legislation and integration into the society including employment with subsequent contribution to the economy etc but thats a debate on its own.

You may select either the WP or fiance route - the choice is yours but it has been pointed out that the fiance route is a 2 phase step requirng you to get married in the UK then apply for a spouse visa. Until then you are not eligible for employment. A more appropraite way is to marry overseas and come in straight on a spouse visa with work rights from day 1. If a marriage will take place in the near term why not go through with this now. Even entry on the WP will require you to change to a spouse visa with applicable fees.

In summary it all depends on the strength of your relationship and whether you want to get married now - only the 2 of you know this. If you want to wait then get the WP. Any visa issuance will be delayed as referral to Home Office must take place - make this easier and hence faster by submitting all paperwork relevant to your asylum case. I would suggest you say yes to the questions requiring you to depart the UK. That you had a visitor visa issued and hence are in the immigration records should expedite this. I hope that helps.

[rmberg1]

Kayalami, thanks for your advise. I know, a fiance/marriage visa gives better chances to return to the UK than working visa. But I also worry about the job, because my partner can't support me financially and can't provide accommodation, that's the problem. In this sense, the job offer is right on time!!
I discussed this with my partner. She said it's OK if I apply for working visa first. Even, if there will be delays, I can inform my prospective employer about the delay and, hopefully, the employer will agree to wait a little bit. If I say that I applied for a fiance/marriage visa instead, the employer may think I play games, and cancel the contract.

As you guys tell me, I will bring to the interview all papers concerning my asylum. Moreover, I plan to write a cover letter to discribe what I did in the UK for all these 4,5 years. I will write that my previous visa was a visitor visa, but I never used it since I entered the country as an asylum seeker. Also, I will tick the box that I was required to leave the UK.

I know there will be delay, since ECO has to contact the HO. Hopefully, the employer will wait. I only worry that the working visa will be rejected. But for this, there should be a reason. I don't see a reason for rejection. Do you see? I refer to the immigration rules where it is written that if the WP is for more than 12 months, the person doesn't have to prove that he intends to leave the UK when the WP expires. And this gives me a hope. Your opinions?

[Kayalami]

Your comments on current financial and accomodation situation indicates WP is best route. On the basis that you have a standard work permit (valid to a max of 60 months) I see no problems with a successful application.

Main reason for visa refusals tend to be on the subjective 'will leave the UK within the validity of issued visa'. Since your visa is in a category leading to settlement then this 'returnability' is moot. Refusals in the CLS category tend to be due to one or more of (though not limited to):

1. fraudelent documentation

2. lack of funds for maintanance - to include where there is a sudden influx of funds in your account with no logical explanation as to source or where such is not verifiable (the HSMP forum has several examples).

3. lack of accomodation.

Give the visa officer all the appropriate documentation pertaining to the WP visa application and all will be well. Make an effort on the accomodation side of things though i.e. make sure you have some well laid out evidence of this as I expect the ECO to review this. The funds issue less problematic given you have a job. However a decent bank statement is also supportive. You should take job offer letter and contract of employment with you. Wise to take contact details of someone in authority at the employer too by way of a business card. Then if ECO minded to call this is easy.

good luck

[rmberg1]

Yes, I keep in my hands a standard WP for 3 years. But is it really a CLS category? I don't think so, because the application form VAF1 is for non-settlement applications. (Maybe I am wrong, it is non-settlement straight away, but LEADING to settlement.)

Anyway, this is what I copied from the ukvisas website:

What requirements do I have to meet to get a visa?
If you hold an ordinary work permit, TWES or a letter of approval you must:
* be able to do the work referred to in your work permit
* not intend to take other employment, except as set out in your work permit
* intend to leave the UK when the work permit expires (where it is due to expire within 12 months), and
* be able to support yourself and any dependants, and live without needing any help from public funds.

So in my case WP is for 3 years, which is more than 12 months, and I don't need to prove returnability. This gives some hope.

As to the accommodation, it may be only prospective, but I can book a hotel for a couple of weeks and tell ECO that I will find a permanent accommodation later. I think it is natural, since I've been only once in that city. The most important, I have some money and I can maintain myself even for a few months.

Kayalami, thanks for your advises, I will prepare all these papers.
At he moment, I am still waiting for a reply from IOM. 2 weeks have gone...

[Kayalami]

1. VAF 2 is only for family based settlement applications. All other categories including employment based leading to settlement e.g. WP are on VAF1.

2. Accomodation plans o.k. Why not arrange something more suitable/ long term in the area you will be working in say through an estate agent if this is possible.

3. Perhaps best to go to IOM offices in person if possible and establish exact position. Clock is ticking to October start and the sooner the better. With your 3 year WP process should be smooth.

Might be worth checking the UK consulate where you will apply for WP visa to see if they require you to book an appointment.

Good Luck

[rmberg1]

Kayalami, thanks very much. It is now clear what to do.
In fact, I visited IOM office in person 2 weeks ago and lodged an application form. Today I will call them again.

[Kayalami]

Glad to be of help. The moderators look forward to a wedding invitation and/or corresponding cake . Have a nice weekend.

[rmberg1]

This is a good idea. Marie, hmm and Kayalami with sposes are invited for my (still prospective) wedding.

[rmberg1]

Hi people,
So I will depart home very soon. The HO is going to pay for my return ticket. Do you think, this fact may be used against myself, when I will apply for a working visa in the UK Embassy? Marie and hmm, what is your experience? Who payed for the tickets in your cases?
Thanks,
rmberg

[Marie B]

My husband didn't pay for his own ticket, I think IOM paid his fare, it didn't count against him.

[hmm]

IOM paid for the ticket. they came to heathrow to say ''good bye'' ...... to make sure passed the immigration without any problem. they'd even pick you up on the other end if you think the immigration will give you hassel.

[Marie B]

Probably a good idea in some countries. My husband was not allowed through Immigration in Albania as he did not have a valid passport, they wouldn't accept his HO travel document (the IO's don't seem to like anyone who has been living outside the country, perk of the job to cause delays). He was stuck there for over five hours. Was only eventually allowed through as his cousin is head of airport security!

[rmberg1]

Hi friends,
I have finally got my passport back from the HO, and on Monday 03/10/05 I am departing to Ukraine. So, as we discussed here, I will apply for a working visa and see what happens. I asked IOM to provide me a letter that I left the UK voluntarily, and hopefully the HO also will give me a copy of my asylum disclaimer.
I also spoke to the UK Embassy in Kiev. They said they process 80% working visa applications the same day. I hope for the best. The most important, my employer agrees to wait for me for a "reasonable amount of time". I only hope that the visa will be given in this "reasonable time".
Thank you very much for your advises and help. Now wish me good luck, and I go.
rmberg.

[hmm]

Good luck with everything. let us know what's happening.
Hope you get the visa and back to UK soon.

[rmberg1]

Hi friends,
I am back!!! I've started a new topic with my adventures, pls have a look.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=5587