Child of British Citizen born in Ireland

[ado.machung]

Hi All,

I'm a British Citizen [ BY DECENT ] living in Sri-Lanka and my wife is Pakistani. Neither of us have ever resided in the EU, not even the UK.

If we have a child in Ireland, what would its nationality be ?

I understand that since 2005, children of a non-Irish parents and residents cannot apply for Irish nationality, but some posts say thats different if one of the parents are British.

I'd appreciate any advice on this topic, especially since i'm sketchy about my rights being British by Decent.

Thanks in advance

[John]

By "Ireland" I presume you mean the Republic of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland.

If we have a child in Ireland, what would its nationality be ?

At the time of the birth, how long will you and your wife have been living in the UK? It is not clear if your wife is already pregnant, or whether you are just thinking of medium term planning?

I'm a British Citizen [ BY DECENT ]

You have full rights to use your British passport to enter the UK and to live here. Really the only difference between being British by descent, or British otherwise by descent, is that as a person who is British by descent, your children will only be British if born in the UK. Whereas had you been British otherwise than by descent your children would have been British wherever they were born in the world.

So your child born in the Republic of Ireland would not be British, whereas a child of yours born in the UK, including Northern Ireland, would be British, and indeed would be British otherwise than by descent.

Any particular reason why you are asking about Ireland?

[ado.machung]

Thanks for your prompt reply John.

Your question - how long have we lived in UK & why Ireland.

Answer - We have NEVER lived in UK, hence not entitled to NHS. Private maternity costs in Ireland are comparitively less than the UK. Also, its ironic, but applying for an Irish visa for my wife (as spouse of EU citizen), is much easier for Ireland than UK.

Just to confirm - According to your reply,regardless of my status being of Descent , if the child is born in Northern Ireland, he/she is will be British ?

What about the Republic of Ireland ? Will the child be entitled to Irish Nationality, since one parent is British ?

[Obie]

If your child is born in Northern Ireland, which is a UK territory , he/she will be entitled to British or/and Irish citizenship (Birth in Island of Ireland to parents who have legal right to be resident).

I hope that answers your question.

[sideshowsue]

Correction:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categ ... or_descent

[Obie]

This rule does not apply to British citizen , as they have the right to stay in northern Ireland. It applies as it states to certain non-nationals

[ado.machung]

Appreciate the responses but now i'm confused.

From the link posted by Sue :

A child born in the island of Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 is entitled to Irish citizenship if they have a British parent or a parent who is entitled to live in Northern Ireland or the Irish State without restriction on their residency.

What does "island of Ireland" refer to here ? Northern Ireland or Rep. of Ireland ?

Northern Island is out for me since getting UK visa for my wife isn't guaranteed in the time frame i'm working with (consulate says up to 3 months).

Unless she can legally travel to Northern Ireland on an Irish Visa.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question - but as you can tell - i'm a newbie !

[Ben]

What about the Republic of Ireland ? Will the child be entitled to Irish Nationality, since one parent is British ?

Yes, and will be able to transmit Irish citizenship to his or her own children - regardless of where they will be born.

Remember though, that unless your child is born in Britain, Northern Ireland or one of the British overseas territories, British citizenship ends with you.

What does "island of Ireland" refer to here ? Northern Ireland or Rep. of Ireland ?

Either.

Northern Island is out for me since getting UK visa for my wife isn't guaranteed in the time frame i'm working with (consulate says up to 3 months).

Unless she can legally travel to Northern Ireland on an Irish Visa.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question - but as you can tell - i'm a newbie !

Legally, you're quite right. Your wife is not permitted to enter Northern Ireland without a valid UK visa. Practically, however, there are no border checks. In fact - times the only we to know you've crossed the border is the change in road signs.

For your child's case, birth anywhere on the island of Ireland will provide him or her with Irish citizenship and to his or her own children - regardless of where in the world they will be born.

If born in Northern Ireland, your child is born a British citizen otherwise than by descent (be able to transmit British citizenship to his or her own children - regardless of where they will be born.).

If born in the Republic of Ireland, your child will not be a British citizen.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So if the child is born in northern Ireland, it would be both Irish and British.

The only challenge is your wife would need a visa to enter northern Ireland. If you are living and working in Ireland, you should be able to easily get a British visa at no cost called an EEA family permit.

The challenge is to find a job quickly in Ireland. But it can be any job, including part time work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nati ... w#At_birth

[ado.machung]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i was under the impression that since i'm British myself, my wife would not be entitled to a British visa through EEA family permit, regardless of where i live and work.

[ado.machung]

I guess i was wrong !! Thanks for the heads-up.

ukvisas.gov.uk says :

I am a British citizen. Can my family members apply for an EEA family permit to join me in the UK?

Although the UK is also a member of the EEA, the information in this guidance does not, in general, relate to British citizens and their family members.
However if a British citizen is living in another EEA country, their non-EEA family members can apply for an EEA family permit to join them on their return to the UK. This is subject to the following conditions:
the British citizen is residing in an EEA Member State as a worker or self-employed person or was doing so before returning to the UK; and
if the family member of the British citizen is their spouse or civil partner, they are living together in the EEA country or they entered into the marriage or civil partnership and were living together in that EEA country before returning to the UK.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I guess i was wrong !! Thanks for the heads-up..

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/

[JAJ]

Hi All,

I'm a British Citizen [ BY DECENT ] living in Sri-Lanka and my wife is Pakistani. Neither of us have ever resided in the EU, not even the UK.

If we have a child in Ireland, what would its nationality be ?

Irish citizen.

Possibly Pakistani as well, but you might not want to claim that.

[ado.machung]

Irish citizen.

Possibly Pakistani as well, but you might not want to claim that.

I'm going through all this trouble mainly to avoid the Pakistani link !

[cantaro]

The website

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law

sums it up quite concisely (although we all know that you should not take anything Wikipedia says for granted without checking the sources cited). In your case, since you are a British citizen, a child of yours born on the island of Ireland would be entitled to Irish citizenship.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think your child, if born in Northern Ireland, would have both British and Irish citizenship. For what that is worth...

[ado.machung]

I think your child, if born in Northern Ireland, would have both British and Irish citizenship. For what that is worth...

Getting a UK visa for my wife is proving to be arduous. The consulate says 8-12 weeks. By that time it's not advisable to fly.
Rep. of Ireland is the next best thing.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

What I was thinking was go to Ireland. Once in ireland (and working), you can either apply for a UK visa or get a visa at the border as you enter.

Just an idea...

[Ben]

What I was thinking was go to Ireland. Once in ireland (and working),..

..Once in Ireland (and working), Singh conditions apply.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Exactly! And it is also then only a quick drive to Northern Ireland

[ado.machung]

What I was thinking was go to Ireland. Once in ireland (and working), you can either apply for a UK visa or get a visa at the border as you enter...

Is there a minimum requirement for how long i should have been working for before applying for visa or EEA family permit ?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

No minimum time that I am aware of, especially if you are just visiting. Although the Singh decision may have some comments about it.

[Ben]

What I'm getting it, is no visa would be required, whether EEA FP or any other flavour.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

What I'm getting it, is no visa would be required, whether EEA FP or any other flavour.

Sorry, but I (somewhat) disagree.

Remember that the non-EU spouse will not have a Residence Card for at least 6 months after the EU spouse gets a job.

And since the UK does not recognize Residence Cards issued by other member states, this is in any case problematic.

In any case, in the period of time before the baby comes there is no chance of a Residence Card.

So they either have to apply for an EEA family permit (i.e. a visa) when they are in Ireland and working, or they have to have the visa issued at the border (if the UK requires that when they enter the UK).

[Ben]

Is there a minimum requirement for how long i should have been working for before applying for visa or EEA family permit ?

Your question should be "Is there a minimum requirement for how long i should have been working for before we can enter and reside in the UK under EEA regs".

The answer is, the Singh judgement mentions no minimum length of time you must be engaged in economic activity in another Member State.

Certain UK documentation seem to think that you must have been engaged in economic activity in another Member State for a minimum period of 6 months. But, as is clear, the Singh judgement didn't say that..

Sorry, but I (somewhat) disagree.

Remember that the non-EU spouse will not have a Residence Card for at least 6 months after the EU spouse gets a job.

And since the UK does not recognize Residence Cards issued by other member states, this is in any case problematic.

In any case, in the period of time before the baby comes there is no chance of a Residence Card.

So they either have to apply for an EEA family permit (i.e. a visa) when they are in Ireland and working, or they have to have the visa issued at the border (if the UK requires that when they enter the UK).

But Metock said:

..the Court holds that a non-Community spouse of a Union citizen who accompanies or joins that citizen can benefit from the directive, irrespective of when and where their marriage took place and of how that spouse entered the host Member State.

The Directive provides that the couple can live and work in Ireland. Singh provides that the couple can enter and reside in the UK after having been engaged in economic activity in Ireland. Metock provides that the provisions of the Directive apply irrespective of how the spouse were to enter the UK (i.e., with or without a visa / EEA FP).