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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
Thanks Obie, I'm already quite aware of that.Obie wrote:Hi Ben,
If you view a resident card as a document confirming the Rights of a non-EEA national family member of EEA national right to reside in a member state under directive 2004/38EC etc. Therefore the Irish Government is not granting it, they are confirming it.
Again, correct - but the issuance of a document confirming these rights is not mandatory until 6 months from application of a Residence Card.Obie wrote:The right of family members exist from the day the EEA national starts exercising their treaty rights and not when the DOJ issue them with a resident card.
Obie, you're missing the point.Obie wrote:If you look at article 23, 24 and 25 of the directives, the rights are more clearly stated.
The "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" must be issued within 6 months of application. The certificate of application of the same must be issued immediately. The rights of the family member exist with or without either.Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 10(1) wrote:Issue of residence cards
1. The right of residence of family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a Member
State shall be evidenced by the issuing of a document called "Residence card of a family member of
a Union citizen" no later than six months from the date on which they submit the application. A
certificate of application for the residence card shall be issued immediately.
Were we doing so?Obie wrote:It is best Ben for us not to use the Irish definition as the benchmark.
Do you have a source for this?Obie wrote:The EU notified the Irish that the tear of sheet was incompatible with the directive "Article 10" which is why it was abolished and not because they wanted to provide an innovative and more professional service.
If so, please explain how you feel anything I've said in this thread contradicts anything I said in that thread.benifa wrote:It used to be a stamped tear-off slip (from page 3 of the EU1 form). However, in recent times, it is a letter addressed to the applicant that confirms receipt of the EU1 application, and invitation for the applicant to report to their local GNIB office to obtain a temporary Stamp 4 card, with 6 months validity (until approval of the EU1 application).dar_man wrote:Hello there.
First of all congratulations for the great site. Great help for lot's of people.
Now my question. I saw in few posts that after one applies for a resident card (Non-EU join EU spouse - EU1), he/she gets a certificate of application with which he/she can obtain GNIB card, work etc until the card itself is issued. What form this certificate has? Is it just the acknowledgement for receiving the application and the documents or something more "formal"???
This is standard airport GNIB officer speil. In one ear and out the other, if you please.dar_man wrote:For those interested, here is my wife's story and why I'm asking:
She (non EU) joined me (EU) about a month ago with a "join spouse" 6 months Irish Visa. I live and work here in Ireland.
At the airport she was told that she must register with police within 3 months. Fair enough.
This is incorrect.dar_man wrote:We tried to apply for a PPS number for her (so she can get a bank account etc) and there she was told that first she needs to register with police (notice that this is not mentioned in the requirements for PPS!).
CitizensInformation.ie (Personal Public Service Number) wrote:In order to receive a number, you will need to fill out an application form and provide proof of your identity.
If you are Irish, you will need to produce the following documents:
* The long version of your birth certificate
And
* Photographic ID, such as your passport or driving licence
And
* Evidence of your address, such as a household bill in your name.
If you are not Irish, you will need to produce the following documents:
* Your passport or national identity card
Or
* Your Immigration Card
And
* Evidence of your address, such as a household bill (ESB, telephone, gas, etc.) in your name.She first needs to apply for the Residence Card, using form EU1, then return to the GNIB office with her Certificate of Application. No excuse for the rudeness though.dar_man wrote:Anyway, she went to the local police station where she was told that she first needs to apply for a resident card. In addition, she was told (in an unreasonably impolite way): "Don't come back to us before you get your resident card!"
Erm, how does the DoJ feel that intentionally withholding your marriage certificate is lawful? Demand it back - it's yours, and they've already had sight of it and opportunity to make a copy.dar_man wrote:She posted all the (original) documents for the resident card to the Irish Naturalization and Immigration Service about 20 days ago. They returned us most of the original documents (notably they kept the original wedding certificate - to be return when the procedure is completed)
Stamped slip of paper was the old way of issuing the Certificate of Application, referred to in the Directive. I'm surprised to hear they've gone back to doing that. My guess though, is that it's a mistake.dar_man wrote:together with a stamped slip of paper (not much written on it) that was part of the application form.
Try it. If the GNIB do not accept the stamped slip of paper as a valid Certificate of Application, write to the DoJ informing them of the same. Demand a valid Certificate of Application described in Article 10(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC.dar_man wrote:Will that slip of paper be enough to get the GNIB card, or should we wait for something more formal? We could ask the police here if they will be happy with it, but given the way that police spoke to my wife in the first time, she hesitates going back there "without her resident card".
Welcome. Do keep us informed.dar_man wrote:Thanks a lot...
Following are some comments from the Danish immigration people about amount of working time.iamanalien wrote:Is there a minumum limit.
Would working 10 hours for minimum wage be acceptable?
There are also some interesting implications from the Metock judgmentWhat is crucial is whether the person has had genuine and effective employment. The employment may not be of a purely marginal nature. Therefore, it is normally a condition that the relevant employment was for at least 10-12 hours a week.
I agree with you 102%!Obie wrote:Ben,
I agree with you 101%. I acquire tremendous knowledge when we have these debate and chat.
It was a great pleasure as always. Sorry for putting you through the trouble of explaining these basic fact again.
You can't use the UK (or the practice in any country) as an argument here. The reason why the application is optional here may be independent of the Directive (no compulsory ID for British citizens). The Directive, however, does explicitly allow member states to oblige anyone to register (see Article 8(1)).Obie wrote:If you view a resident card as a document confirming the Rights of a non-EEA national family member of EEA national right to reside in a member state under directive 2004/38EC etc. Therefore the Irish Government is not granting it, they are confirming it. In the UK it is clearly stated that one doesn't need to apply for resident card, to stay in the UK as family member of EEA national, although they noted it will be difficult to prove.
There is no time limit that the EEA national has to be at work before an application can be submitted. So long as they are engaged in meaningful and genuine work. If they are unemployed they can still be considered as worker under EU law if they were working before they were made redundant or stopped working for other reasons such as illnesses(Eind Ruling against the Netherlands) or are actively seeking work with a realistic prospect of gaining a job within a specified period (6months).iamanalien wrote:What is the the minimum duration, if any, that the eu citizen has to be employed at the time of the application?