Return ticket needed for my wife?

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:11 pm

Hi guys,
I have a simple question, which sounds complicated at the same time!
My wife is Argetinian, but has an Italian passport.

Does she need a return ticket to leave Argentina? Will they create hassle at the checkin desk if she has a one way ticket? Should she use her Argentinan passport at checkin or her Italian passport?

I would have thought that it would be best to leave Argentina with her Italian passport, and hence should not need a return ticket as her Italian passport allows her to stay in U.K. indefinitely.

When entering Argentina, she should use her Argentinian passport to get in.

Am I wrong in my logic and reasoning?

1963British · Post by **1963British** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:55 pm

Assuming she is coming to the UK.

Let me comment on what is required for dual national USA citizens.

You must enter or leave the US on your US Passport. There is logic to it, when you think about it.

Using that as a reasonable guide, absent any specific directives from Argentina, she would check in at the airport in Argentina with her Argentina Passport.

When your spouse is in Argentina, her rights to be there are because she is a citizen. She is NOT an Italian in Argentina and international law backs that up.

When she enters the UK, she is entering as an EU Citizen.

When she lands in the UK, she proceeds into the EU line and shows her Italian passport.

On going back to Argentina, I would present the Italian passport to check in but the Argentina passport in the arrival hall in Argentina.

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:02 pm

Hi there, thanks for your answer.
The problem leaving Argentina with an Argentinian passport is that Argentinans are not allowed to stay indefinitely in U.K and she might be asked to show a return ticket to Argentina at checkin in Argentina.

But the fact is that she is a full fledged Italian citizen (otherwise she wouldn't have got an Italian passport), so she can stay in U.K. indefinitely. So these 2 are in conflict with each other!

To be honets, when in Argentina, she is also an Italian citizen, though she is Argentinian as well, of course. I personally don;t see what is wrong in leaving Argentina with the Italian passport, thereby not requiring a return ticket.I don't want to shell out for a return ticket just for the sake of it, and this is confusing me big time.

Surely this is quite a common occurrence, so what do people do?

meats · Post by **meats** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:06 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:Hi there, thanks for your answer.
The problem leaving Argentina with an Argentinian passport is that Argentinans are not allowed to stay indefinitely in U.K and she might be asked to show a return ticket to Argentina at checkin in Argentina.

But the fact is that she is a full fledged Italian citizen (otherwise she wouldn't have got an Italian passport), so she can stay in U.K. indefinitely. So these 2 are in conflict with each other!

To be honets, when in Argentina, she is also an Italian citizen, though she is Argentinian as well, of course. I personally don;t see what is wrong in leaving Argentina with the Italian passport, thereby not requiring a return ticket.I don't want to shell out for a return ticket just for the sake of it, and this is confusing me big time.

Surely this is quite a common occurrence, so what do people do?

So you buy the more expensive return ticket which allows cancellation and you cancel the return leg once in the UK and get a refund.

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:15 pm

meats wrote: So you buy the more expensive return ticket which allows cancellation and you cancel the return leg once in the UK and get a refund.

So is this the only way to solve the problem? Will she run into trouble if she uses the Italian passport to leave Argentina? If asked for a return ticket, can she produce her Italian passport to show that she does not need a return ticket?
And what about future trips to Argentina? What do we do then? If she has to always leave Argentina with an Argentinian passport, then we'll always have to play this game of buying return tickets and cancelling the return part of the ticket, which sounds weird to say the least.

It's bizarre that there is no simpler solution considering she has an EU passport!

meats · Post by **meats** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:40 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:
meats wrote: So you buy the more expensive return ticket which allows cancellation and you cancel the return leg once in the UK and get a refund.
So is this the only way to solve the problem? Will she run into trouble if she uses the Italian passport to leave Argentina? If asked for a return ticket, can she produce her Italian passport to show that she does not need a return ticket?
And what about future trips to Argentina? What do we do then? If she has to always leave Argentina with an Argentinian passport, then we'll always have to play this game of buying return tickets and cancelling the return part of the ticket, which sounds weird to say the least.

It's bizarre that there is no simpler solution considering she has an EU passport!

She has an Italian passport so she can live in the UK. If she's returning the Argentina then it's going to be on a holiday no? So she just buys a normal return ticket from the UK.

Being perfectly honest a single ticket should be fine. I understand your worry but i don't think you need to be worried at all. She's legally been in Argentina and she can legally be in the UK. Lots of people going between the UK and Australia do the same if they've got an EU national passport and an Australia one. Enter UK on EU passport and enter Oz on Ozzie passport, leave Oz on Ozzie one and leave UK on EU one. If any questions are asked then just show the Italian passport to show that she can go to UK with no immigration control

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:54 pm

Hi meats, thanks for your replies my friend.
If she can produce her Italian passport to show she does not need a cisa or return ticket, then that solves the problem for all time. And as you said, going back to Argentina should not be a problem, as you said, as it will be a holiday and she would leave U.K. with her Italian passport and enter Argentina on her Argentinian passport, and keep repeating the cycle.

So the critical thing is being able to waive the Italian passport in case she is asked to produce a return ticket or documentation to show she can stay legally in the U.K. without a visa. Surely this should be ok, considering the Italian passport is legal and having 2 passports is also legal for Argentinians.

meats · Post by **meats** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:59 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:Hi meats, thanks for your replies my friend.
If she can produce her Italian passport to show she does not need a cisa or return ticket, then that solves the problem for all time. And as you said, going back to Argentina should not be a problem, as you said, as it will be a holiday and she would leave U.K. with her Italian passport and enter Argentina on her Argentinian passport, and keep repeating the cycle.

So the critical thing is being able to waive the Italian passport in case she is asked to produce a return ticket or documentation to show she can stay legally in the U.K. without a visa. Surely this should be ok, considering the Italian passport is legal and having 2 passports is also legal for Argentinians.

It shouldn't be a problem no. To be on the safe side you can always buy one of the expensive return tickets and cancel the return leg which means you would get a refund on that portion of the ticket. I personally don't see a problem mind as she can legally live and work in the UK on the Italian passport.

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:06 am

BTW, have you or anyone else ever tried this kind of thing?
If I can avoid it, I don't won't to buy the return ticket, unless that is the only option available. If the Italian passport cannot be used as proof of ability to live legally in the U.K., then we will be forever buying return tickets for her, which is a nightmare!

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:24 am

I imagine that she can use her Italian passport at check-in and show her Argentinian passport at the official passport control when she is, effectively, leaving the country. That is what I do when leaving Australia with a British and an Australian passport.

I don't know what the Argentinian system is, but if the airline also checks for immigration status (as is the case in the USA, for example), she might need to show both passports there. I don't see that this will be a problem if she is asked though.

jazbaati99 · Post by **jazbaati99** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:26 am

Does Argentina allow dual nationality? I am a dual Pakistani / British citizen. What I do while leaving Pakistan is show both my Pakistani and British passports and while entering UK show my British passport only. Similarly on my way to Pakistan I usually show my British passport only and enter Pakistan on my Pakistani passport. As long as both the countries have no problem regarding dual citizenship, I don't see any issue. She can show both her Italian and Argentenian passports and travel on a one way ticket.

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:41 am

Hi everyone, thanks for your experiences and help.

Argentina definitely allows dual nationality - a lot of Argentinians have Italian passports.

So from what you are saying, this should not be a problem at all, as both passports are legal and valid documents giving her the right to stay in different parts of the world. I would think that is also the logical thing, otherwise it would be a nightmare buying return tickets all the time and then cancelling the return leg.

Any Argentinians here who can add his/her experiences?

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:00 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:Hi everyone, thanks for your experiences and help.

Argentina definitely allows dual nationality - a lot of Argentinians have Italian passports.

So from what you are saying, this should not be a problem at all, as both passports are legal and valid documents giving her the right to stay in different parts of the world. I would think that is also the logical thing, otherwise it would be a nightmare buying return tickets all the time and then cancelling the return leg.

Any Argentinians here who can add his/her experiences?

Just to add to what I said above (not an Argentinian with my experience though, sorry): the reason that airlines check the passengers' passports is to make sure that they are admissible to the country at the end of the journey. The airlines are often required to do that by the destination country and they are often subject to heavy fines if passengers arrive with inadequate documentation. Airlines are not, in general, concerned with the immigration status of passengers in the departure country.

There can be exceptions to this. For example, in the USA, the airline is responsible for collecting the departure cards (filled in by passengers on arrival) from short-stay visitors. But such exceptions are rare; I don't know if that sort of situation applies in Argentina, but I doubt it. Even if that is the case, the airline ought to be able to deal with it by looking at both passports.

As a general rule, though, start with just one passport and only produce the other if asked for it. This is not because there is anything illegal or underhand about carrying two passports that your are entitled to hold, but simply to avoid confusion.

The usual procedure is:

at check-in, show the passport that you will be using to enter your destination country (in your wife's case, the Italian passport)
at security, show the passport that you used to enter the country you're in now, though it probably doesn't matter too much (in your wife's case, the Argentinian passport)
at passport control, show the the passport that you used to enter the country you're in now (Argentinian)
at the aircraft door before departure (if asked), show the passport that you will be using at the destination (Italian)
at passport control on arrival, obviously show the destination passport (Italian)

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:18 pm

Thanks Christophe, thanks for that. I agree with the sequence of passports you have mentioned, except that at passport control she might need to produce both passports (and possibly at checkin). But as long as both can be legally produced, and accepted, we should be fine here, I think.Right?

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:19 pm

Sorry, another related question - what nationality do we mention when buying the ticket? Italian or Argentinian? Assuming she presents her Italian passport at checkin (to show the checkin people that she can stay legally in U.K.), do we say her nationality is Italian? Or does it not matter?

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:36 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:Thanks Christophe, thanks for that. I agree with the sequence of passports you have mentioned, except that at passport control she might need to produce both passports (and possibly at checkin). But as long as both can be legally produced, and accepted, we should be fine here, I think.Right?

I don't know why she would have to produce both passports at passport control, but if she were asked by passport control when leaving Argentina she could produce the Italian one. She won't need to produce anything but her Italian passport on entry to the UK.

At check-in when leaving Argentina she might be asked to produce her Argentinian passport, although I doubt it. If she is, she can do so.

As to buying the ticket, if there's scope to give two nationalities, then do so. If not, give the Italian nationality. As I understand it, you will be buying a one-way ticket in any case.

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:52 pm

Hi Christophe, You're right, we are talking about a one way ticket to U.K.

The reason I mentioned showing the Italian passport at immigration in Argentina is because often Immigration want to know if you are going to be legal where you are going to. Otherwise showing the Argentinian passport should be enough, I agree.
Booked the ticket now, and no questions were asked about her nationality. So that was a bridge which didn't need crossing.

I have to thank you all so much for helping. I almost feel I should pay for the service!!

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:03 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:I have to thank you all so much for helping. I almost feel I should pay for the service!!

No problem, I hope the journey goes smoothly.

As to payment (lol), speaking for myself, give the money to a worthy charity.

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:12 pm

I will donate some money to some worthy charity.
I might post back later if I have more questions, as I have none right now!

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:35 pm

Would still love to hear from Argentinians who has had experience with 2 passports..

rahul_yanina · Post by **rahul_yanina** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:36 pm

Anyone with some relevant experience in Argentina/South America?

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Return ticket needed for my wife?

Return ticket needed for my wife?