Has anyone appealed under facial Discrimination?

twister · Post by **twister** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:50 am

Hi.

I am curious if someone has ever appealed for a Tier 1 refusal under facial discrimination? How does it work? What does one need to prove?

Thanks.

Post by **ChetanOjha** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:54 am

How would you know if you are racially descriminated? HO does not do that. The decision making criteria is quite straight forward. You either get the points or not get the point. Don't there there is any scope of facial descrimination here.

twister wrote:Hi.

I am curious if someone has ever appealed for a Tier 1 refusal under facial discrimination? How does it work? What does one need to prove?

Thanks.

ramgsk · Post by **ramgsk** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:41 am

I do not see a point/scope of facial discrimination here. Only advise I could give is please don't play the wrong strings. You might make the game difficult for others.

twister · Post by **twister** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:17 pm

I would have thought the same. However, after all procedures and common sense were thrown into the wind by the ECO/ECM team I am not so sure.

So, has anyone gone this route?

Post by **ChetanOjha** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:51 pm

Procedures/rules may be mis-interpreted by ECO/HO caseworker in may circumstances. It has nothing to do with facial discrimination.

twister wrote:I would have thought the same. However, after all procedures and common sense were thrown into the wind by the ECO/ECM team I am not so sure.

So, has anyone gone this route?

drjabberwocky23 · Post by **drjabberwocky23** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:58 pm

I think that facial discimination would be highly unlikely, but why would you feel this way?

twister · Post by **twister** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:21 pm

@chetan - mistakes are completely understandable. However, I don't see why I should have to pay for a new application fee and have a refusal stamped into my passport if the ECO/ECM errs.

@dr - good question. Firstly facial discrimination does not necessarily mean race, it could be nationality or otherwise also. I don't want to disclose the situation yet. Just want to gauge if anyone has gone this route.

manishmittal · Post by **manishmittal** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:31 pm

twister wrote:@chetan - mistakes are completely understandable. However, I don't see why I should have to pay for a new application fee and have a refusal stamped into my passport if the ECO/ECM errs.

@dr - good question. Firstly facial discrimination does not necessarily mean race, it could be nationality or otherwise also. I don't want to disclose the situation yet. Just want to gauge if anyone has gone this route.

just stop this nonsense.

Post by **push** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:51 pm

twister wrote:@chetan - mistakes are completely understandable. However, I don't see why I should have to pay for a new application fee and have a refusal stamped into my passport if the ECO/ECM errs.

@dr - good question. Firstly facial discrimination does not necessarily mean race, it could be nationality or otherwise also. I don't want to disclose the situation yet. Just want to gauge if anyone has gone this route.

That will be a long shot. Just because a VISA is refused and you are made to ay fee again no one will believe that it was because of any bias. Did you fulfill all the conditions?

1971 · Post by **1971** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:29 pm

Hi,

It is in the rules that CWs or ECOs can use their discretions. No grounds for facial discrimination in Tier 1 because several persons from you region has gotten approval and visa stamps before and after you. So dont make your case worsened. They hate rude and non-polite guts. If you have to reapply, do so and pay all necesaary fee while also stating your issues "politely" in a cover letter on the ECOs reasons for rejection. Do not make any case based on "facial discrimination" in your application as there are no grounds and evidence for that. If it's not in the guidance rules and Visa rules, where then did you find this? I am sure if you can clearly and politely state your reasons, they will look into it and you may likely get approval.

I hope this helps.

Cheers.
1971

MyHSMPApplication · Post by **MyHSMPApplication** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:33 pm

Moderators
I believe this thread isn't helping anyone. Can we please ban this post.

Cheers
PG

Post by **push** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:37 pm

MyHSMPApplication wrote:Moderators
I believe this thread isn't helping anyone. Can we please ban this post.

Cheers
PG

But the person who posted the query is getting feedback. There is no inappropriate content in the posts; There have been no specific mention of nationality/race etc. either so why ban it? Have I missed anything here?

MyHSMPApplication · Post by **MyHSMPApplication** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:37 pm

Hi Push_Hsmp
I agree with you statement but having said that, this thread isn't going to help anyone. I mean, alleging facial discrimination is just a joke and I take strong exception to such discussion.

My suggestion to ban this thread hasn't got anything to do with the content but to do with the discussion itself.

The person in question here, should, instead of diverting the topic, should discuss his case. That way we will be in a position to give appropriate feedback on this case.

My request to ban this thread is for a simple reason

"Content not relevant to Tier I General forum"

Cheers
PG

twister · Post by **twister** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:44 am

Gents.

I am not alleging anything. I am not even saying that there's been any discrimination. I am just asking if anyone has gone this route or not

@1971 - I do intend to write to them and explain.

There's no point in discussing the situation here - as none of us is a judge. But if there really was no possibility of discrimination - why would it be an option to file an appeal

@push - will PM you.

@mods - no problem in closing the thread. I guess there can't be any reason at all for the ECM to ignore a 2006 AIT determination in exactly the same situation.

drjabberwocky23 · Post by **drjabberwocky23** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:37 pm

twister wrote:@chetan - mistakes are completely understandable. However, I don't see why I should have to pay for a new application fee and have a refusal stamped into my passport if the ECO/ECM errs.

@dr - good question. Firstly facial discrimination does not necessarily mean race, it could be nationality or otherwise also. I don't want to disclose the situation yet. Just want to gauge if anyone has gone this route.

I agree that people can be discriminated against on a number of fronts. I also respect that you do not wish to disclose any additional information. However, given a points-based approach used in the Tier 1 immigration, it does reduce the likelihood of any inappropriate discrimination. I mean, it's hardly a subjective process is it?

Proving any discrimination is going to be difficult also. How could you do it, unless you had a tape-recording/written document confirming it?

twister · Post by **twister** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:57 pm

@dr - how do I intend to prove it? On the "balance of probabilities"..

Post by **push** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:24 pm

twister wrote:@dr - how do I intend to prove it? On the "balance of probabilities"..

This unfortunately is a standard refusal statement. If you look at the HSMP caseworker's guidance you will find that even the rejection letters have to have a standard language based on the peculiarities of case in hand

twister · Post by **twister** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:47 am

Actually the ECM/ECO has to prove that they didn't discriminate. So, not following the DID, standard format of a refusal letter, Tier 1 guidance manual, and an AIT determination is standard practice then I am sure the BHC will be fine

twister · Post by **twister** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:46 am

Hi again.

Sorry to bring this up again. However, I just found what I was really looking for. The reason to ask about this route was whether someone has gone this route and AIT accepted the appeal for reasons of not following immigration rules rather than "race relations" itself.

Following is the report: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/ ... eportApr09

In addition to saying that the Admin Review system is really not considered fair and may already be having problem. Point 196 on page 52 (pdf) - mentions that AIT has found no grounds for race relations but appeals have been upheld on Immigration Act.

Apologies if anyone was offended earlier.

Additionally, if you read the report, you will see that complaining is an essential part of the system. If you have been given advice to re-apply, please atleast write them a note saying you are displeased with the way they have handled the application.

ginoT · Post by **ginoT** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:22 am

I don't think this thread is as silly as some of you are making it out to be. A friend of mine had a very nasty interview whereby the ECO implied some facial comments regarding the sponsor [me!] (who while is a British national, was not born in the UK). Basically the ECO made a derogatory joke in a spiteful way suggesting that it was unlikely the sponsor himself gained nationality lawfully because they came from â€œthatâ€

twister · Post by **twister** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:14 pm

Hello again everyone.

Just wanted to let everybody know that I went ahead and had a solicitor send a letter to the UKBA and promptly they agreed to issue my visa.

I did not mention why it was denied in the first place was, because a lot of people had sent requests for Admin Review for the same reason those days and did not want to make them anxious. The refusal was based on submitting a stamped and signed bank statement that did not have a logo.

Hope this helps

And its really cold here!

Post by **push** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:20 pm

twister wrote:Hello again everyone.

Just wanted to let everybody know that I went ahead and had a solicitor send a letter to the UKBA and promptly they agreed to issue my visa.

I did not mention why it was denied in the first place was, because a lot of people had sent requests for Admin Review for the same reason those days and did not want to make them anxious. The refusal was based on submitting a stamped and signed bank statement that did not have a logo.

Hope this helps

And its really cold here!

So you didnt finally appeal on facial discrimination basis

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Has anyone appealed under facial Discrimination?

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