LTR (stamp 4) valid for business?

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:27 pm

Hi is stamp 4 that you get for 5 years work permit be able to allow you to do business in Ireland?

has anyone did business with LTR (5y ears residency NOT IBC) this or one needs to apply for business permit?

thanks

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:35 pm

Yes. Stamp 4 allows you to work without a work permit and setup a business without a business permit.

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:56 pm

thanks for reply, I kinda thought so .. but it didnt say on the INIS website. even the stamps list says stamp 1 for business.

Did you know anyone or actually talked to INIS about this?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:01 pm

Stamp 1 is permission to work for a specified employer or business, for a specified length of time.

Stamp 4 is permission to reside in Ireland for a specified length of time. As a resident, the holder is able to work for any employer in any industry, to study or to set up a business.

More info here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Stamps

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:02 pm

benifa wrote:Yes. Stamp 4 allows you to work without a work permit and setup a business without a business permit.

Not quite sure that you are correct benifa.

My Understanding is that the 5 years LTR is just an elongated work permit which allows you to work without having to apply for the traditional yearly work permit.

Setting up a bussinness of your own I think is another kettle of fish in which you need either an explicit Bussinness permision from the MoJ, a stamp 4 based on IBC/refugee status/ Spouse of an Irish/4EUFam or a stamp 5 (Without Condition).

I would think a bussiness permision would be required in all other instances.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:20 pm

9jeirean wrote:
benifa wrote:Yes. Stamp 4 allows you to work without a work permit and setup a business without a business permit.
Not quite sure that you are correct benifa.

My Understanding is that the 5 years LTR is just an elongated work permit which allows you to work without having to apply for the traditional yearly work permit.

Stamp 4 is permission to reside in Ireland for a specified length of time. As a resident, the holder is able to work for any employer in any industry, to study or to set up a business.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categ ... in-ireland
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/Refer ... -checklist
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Stamps

9jeirean wrote:Setting up a bussinness of your own I think is another kettle of fish in which you need either an explicit Bussinness permision from the MoJ, a stamp 4 based on IBC/refugee status/ Spouse of an Irish/4EUFam or a stamp 5 (Without Condition).

I would think a bussiness permision is would be required in all other instances.

See other reply.

9jeirean wrote:stamp 5 (Without Condition).

Stamp 5 is Without Condition as to Time.
Stamp 6 is Without Condition.

The differences are subtle but important.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Wi ... dorsements
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Wi ... ndorsement

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:24 pm

Actually just went over the info again here==>

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Lo ... _Residency

Though not explicit (as usual) but It would appear that this type of LTR is not an open residency status as you would expect in terms of permanent residency (PR) as it applies in most other countries. Rather it is a form of Longer extension of whatever status the applicant is on at the time of application (with the exception of those on work permit who get upgraded to stamp 4 with condition). For example:

1) someone on a Stamp 4 Working Visa/Authorization gets another 5 years as per previous condition.

2)Someone with a stamp 1 work permits gets upgraded to a 5 years stamp 4 with no need to apply for annual work permit renewal.
However:

3) Spouses and dependants of 1 and 2 above gets a 5 years on stamp 3 as they have always had no permision to work or set up bussiness still

It should also be noted that the right of 1 &2 above vis-a-vis set up a bussiness is not explicitly stated. The bottom line is the conditions attached to this type of Stamp 4 is different from that which applies in cases such as EUFam, Spouse of Irish, Refugee, IBC etc . The latter is based on Irish/EU association whereas, that which is based on 5 years workpermit/working visa condition is an employment based stamp 4.

....and so the confusion and contradiction continues

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:35 pm

9jeirean wrote:....and so the confusion and contradiction continues

I'm not sure it does, 9jeirean. In fact, I think it's quite clear.

Someone who has been on a Stamp 4 Working Visa/Authorization, for 5 years, can apply for LTR. If approved, they are granted Stamp 4 valid for 5 years.

Someone who has been on a Stamp 1 Working Permit, for 5 years, can apply for LTR. If approved, they are granted Stamp 4 valid for 5 years.

The dependents of someone who has LTR may apply for Stamp 3, valid for 5 years.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:42 pm

benifa wrote:
9jeirean wrote:....and so the confusion and contradiction continues
I'm not sure it does, 9jeirean. In fact, I think it's quite clear.

Someone who has been on a Stamp 4 Working Visa/Authorization, for 5 years, can apply for LTR. If approved, they are granted Stamp 4 valid for 5 years.

Someone who has been on a Stamp 1 Working Permit, for 5 years, can apply for LTR. If approved, they are granted Stamp 4 valid for 5 years.

The dependents of someone who has LTR may apply for Stamp 3, valid for 5 years.

We are saying the same thing mate. Except that the conditions attached to both stamps 4s are different. (Note that people who have been granted Stamp 4 based on Irish/EU associations/Refugees are exempted from applying for this type of LTR)

May be we ask for contributions from other forum members of their knowledge in this regards

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:50 pm

Just checked the Bussiness permission page of INIS:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP09000012

and it states that only the following categories of people are exempted from Bussiness permission

EXEMPTIONS
A number of categories of non-EEA nationals are exempt from the requirement to obtain Business Permission. The categories are as follows:-

persons who have been granted refugee status by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
dependant relatives of EEA nationals exercising a valid right to reside in Ireland.
persons who have been granted permission to remain in the State on one of the following grounds:-
persons with permission to remain as the spouse of an Irish national.
persons with permission to remain in Ireland on the basis that they are the parent of an Irish born child ( an Irish citizen).
persons who have been granted temporary leave to remain in the State on humanitarian grounds, having been in the asylum process.

I think this really states it clearly

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:17 pm

so stamp 4 due to 5 years work permit cant set up business then.

If I get my stamp 4 and if I want to do business I have to apply again for business permit and back to stamp 1???

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:19 pm

so if I get stamp 4 (work permit for 5 years) and if I want to do business Ill have to apply for business permit.

but will I go back to stamp 1? If thats the case, then they dont encourage people who worked here for more than five years to set up their own business..

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:26 pm

Hate to sound negative or uncanningly patronising. There are lots of wonderful things in Ireland for which I am sure most of us migrant and native citizens are grateful for, but the premise on which the immigration process in Ireland is based is purely on the assumption that people are welcomed in on a temporary basis. A lot of emphasis on what the country will gain from the working migrants but God forbids that a B***y foreigner would ask to live and have an unrestricted right to be here for ever. So here we are.

Delay is the frst stage of denial!

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:40 pm

sorry deleted have my personal infos

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:46 pm

smalltime,

Someone who has been on a Stamp 1 Work Permit, for 5 years, can apply for LTR. If approved, they are granted Stamp 4 valid for 5 years.

Stamp 4 allows you to work without a work permit and setup a business without a business permit.

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:48 pm

I applied already last year Jan 2008, I contacted them 3 weeks ago and they are processing sept 2007.

but funny thing is I have a friend who applied sept 2007 and still no contact from them. Mabe after few days I hope.

thanks for the replies

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:46 pm

the grant letter of LTr states that you are granted stamp 4 for 5 years and you are allowed to work without the need of work permit, and start business without the need of permission from the minister. if you are granted stamp 4 for LTR you can work for the same company, move the company or start your own business. no restrictions there.
the dependants get stamp 3 for 5 years. if they want to work, they need to apply for a work permit.
business permission if granted is stamp 1 for 1-2 years depending on the business type, etc. but that is completely different to LTR. if you have business permission, you do not qualify to apply for LTR.
LTR do not contact applicants if all documents are in order, and no additional documents are needed. in that case the first letter the applicant would get would be the decision. Just make sure to inform them of your up to date address.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:53 pm

agniukas wrote:the grant letter of LTr states that you are granted stamp 4 for 5 years and you are allowed to work without the need of work permit, and start business without the need of permission from the minister. if you are granted stamp 4 for LTR you can work for the same company, move the company or start your own business. no restrictions there.
the dependants get stamp 3 for 5 years. if they want to work, they need to apply for a work permit.
business permission if granted is stamp 1 for 1-2 years depending on the business type, etc. but that is completely different to LTR. if you have business permission, you do not qualify to apply for LTR.
LTR do not contact applicants if all documents are in order, and no additional documents are needed. in that case the first letter the applicant would get would be the decision. Just make sure to inform them of your up to date address.

Thanks for this info. Glad to know that. One wonders why the ever so contradicting INIS did not state it here

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP09000012

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:33 am

9jeirean wrote:Thanks for this info. Glad to know that. One wonders why the ever so contradicting INIS did not state it here

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP09000012

Because that document has nothing to do with Long Term Residency / Stamp 4.

It relates Business Permission - Non-EEA nationals wishing to come to Ireland to establish a business.

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LTR (stamp 4) valid for business?

LTR (stamp 4) valid for business?