British citizen wants to bring Dominican mother and brother

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:02 pm

Hello everyone,
I hope you are all well. I have been reading this forum for the past couple of days looking for answers. I have no clue at immigration laws and was hoping to get some pointers from browsing around the many postings here.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find clear answers to my queries as yet, thus the reason for my new post:-

Here is a little bit of background information so you know where I'm coming from

)

I am a Dominican born. I moved to the UK with my wife back in 1998. I have been living here since. We are still happily married with two beautiful boys. I now hold a British passport and have been a British citizen since 2004.

Three years ago, my mum and brother, both Dominican nationals came to the UK to visit us on a visit visa. They stayed with us for three months.

I would like them to come again next year to visit us but this time I was wondering if they could use a different method to apply for their visas. I would like them to apply for EEA family permits this time around.

My question is, is this possible? Are they allowed to apply for these permits instead of visit visas?

I know that the UK is classed as a EU member state but even with all the reading I have done at the IND and UKVisas websites, it is still not clear to me whether my family in Dominican Republic is entitled to apply for a EEA family permit to visit a EEA National (I am a EEA National or not?) or must they use UK rules to apply for their visas?

I hope I have made my point clear and that you understand my question
Any information/advice/guidance you can provide will be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

Kind regards

Junior

UKBAbble · Post by **UKBAbble** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:54 pm

If you are living in the UK they cannot apply under EEA regulations and so their only choice is a UK visit visa. The UK is of course a member of the EU but unless you have the citizenship of another EU/EEA country they cannot use the EEA regulations.

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:04 am

Thanks UKBAbble,

I understand

Regards,

Junior

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:32 am

Hello everyone,

Hope you are all well. Wondering if you could answer the following question for me?

I know it has been a while since I first posted my question above (lots has happened since! my family did come to visit on a family visit visa! and they stayed for couple of months).

My question is, I am now living in Germany (I'm working here now) and I was wondering, now that I am living in a EEA member state (not the UK) can my family apply for EEA family permits to come join me on my return to the UK? That is what I gather from reading the IND website but was hoping you guys could explain in 'plain' english!

As I understand, I am exercising my EEA treaty rights in Germany, therefore my family can apply for EEA family permits to come join me? The IND website says that they can come join me on my return to the UK, is that right? or is the EEA permit only valid for the country where I am residing?

Thank you in advance for any advice

Regards,

Junior

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:57 pm

Please anyone?
Any advise provided will be greatly appreciated

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:13 pm

Post by **Obie** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 pm

JuniorG wrote:Hello everyone,

Hope you are all well. Wondering if you could answer the following question for me?

I know it has been a while since I first posted my question above (lots has happened since! my family did come to visit on a family visit visa! and they stayed for couple of months).

My question is, I am now living in Germany (I'm working here now) and I was wondering, now that I am living in a EEA member state (not the UK) can my family apply for EEA family permits to come join me on my return to the UK? That is what I gather from reading the IND website but was hoping you guys could explain in 'plain' english!

As I understand, I am exercising my EEA treaty rights in Germany, therefore my family can apply for EEA family permits to come join me? The IND website says that they can come join me on my return to the UK, is that right? or is the EEA permit only valid for the country where I am residing?

Thank you in advance for any advice

Regards,

Junior

They have to have lived with you in the other member state that you were exercising your treaty for them to qualify on your return to the UK.

Otherwise it is the national rule i am afraid

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:53 am

JuniorG,

On your return to the UK you will be classed as a EU citizen, therefore be able to apply under EU law rather than national UK law. Your best bet would be to have them join you in Germany now, they should be issued visas to join you free of charge and an accelerated process! Then on your return to the UK apply for family permits for them and eventually a resident card!

Good luck

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:10 am

Obie, ciaramc,

Thank you very much for your responses. So, you suggest that, while I am in Germany, I apply for my family to join me here on EEA Family Permits? and when I eventually return to the UK I can then apply again for them to be issued with (different?) EEA family permits?

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:28 am

Guys,

Also, if this is the approach you recommend, can you please point me to some online resource where I can find information on the steps I need to follow? or if you could kindly spare the time to provide me a break down of the steps required, what forms need to be submitted, etc?

Thank you in advance. Much appreciated

Post by **Obie** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:44 am

JuniorG wrote:Guys,

Also, if this is the approach you recommend, can you please point me to some online resource where I can find information on the steps I need to follow? or if you could kindly spare the time to provide me a break down of the steps required, what forms need to be submitted, etc?

Thank you in advance. Much appreciated

Firstly you have to go to Germany and get established there, either as a self-employed or employed person.

Once you have done that your family can apply for a Family Member of EU national visa for Germany, if they are visa required, or they can just join you there. Please be aware that you have to provide evidence of dependency if your siblings are over 21, and letter from your parents if they are under. For people under 21 no evidence of dependency is required.

When they arrive in Germany, they can apply for Resident card for family member of EU national under EU law directive 2004/38 EC.

Once you have exercised treaty rights in the capacity mentioned above for six months, you can apply for an EEA family permit for you non-EEA family member to enter the UK. This will be issued free of charge. If they are non-visa required nationals, you needn't apply for EEA family Permit.

On arrival in the UK they should apply for Resident Card for family members of EU national, on form EEA 2.

You will need to provide them evidence that you have exercised treaty rights in another member state in the capacity mentioned above.

I hope this set things clear for you.

Good Luck

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:37 pm

Hello Obie, thank you so much, the process is a lot clearer now. However, I now have couple of new questions! See below:-

Obie wrote: Firstly you have to go to Germany and get established there, either as a self-employed or employed person.

I am already working in Germany. Do I need to do something? (where do I declare that I am excercising my treaty rights?) My company have told me that I should register with the local council at the city where I work once I have been working for the company for more that three months. Would this registration suffice to prove that I am excercising my rights? or do I need to register with some other agency?

Obie wrote: Once you have done that your family can apply for a Family Member of EU national visa for Germany, if they are visa required, or they can just join you there. Please be aware that you have to provide evidence of dependency if your siblings are over 21

My family members are Dominican nationals so they do require visas.
Do I understand correct that they need to apply for "a Family Member of EU national visa for Germany" and not a "EEA Family Permit"?
When you say "evidence of dependency" here, are you referring to evidence to show that I support them financially or evidence to prove how we are related (sorry if this question sounds stupid but I thought that for EEA family permits you were not required to show how you support your family. I just want to make 100% sure I understand)

Obie wrote: When they arrive in Germany, they can apply for Resident card for family member of EU national under EU law directive 2004/38 EC.

Will my family be allowed to travel to the UK (for visits) with one of these Resident Cards or will they need to apply for Visit visas before travelling?

Sorry that your answer above has raised more questions Obie. I just want to make sure I get everything right first time.

Thanks again for the support

Post by **Obie** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:12 am

Excellent that you are exercising treaty right. That is one huge step.

The directive doesn't ask that you provide evidence you will be able to support your family or provision of adequate accommodation, what it state is that in order for family members over 21years of Age who are not your spouse to Join you, you have to provide evidence they were members of your household in the country from which you came, who are dependent on you, or serious health condition means they need your care.

If this is difficult to prove, i will suggest you get them a visitors visa to Germany and then you can sort the rest out. It is more easier when they are in country than outside. You can then apply for the resident card, the burden of proof in those area i mentioned above will be more minimal then.

Now that you are exercising economic activity, i will suggest you ask your family member to go to the German Embassy and establish what they require to provide for the visa. The reason i suggested this is because they seem to apply different rules for family members outside Europe than those inside. Either way, i am confident they will be granted the visa.

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:18 pm

Thak you Obie for your time, I really appreciate it.

Couple of questions (again!):-

So, instead of applying for EEA family permits for them, I should apply for visas and once in Germany, I can apply for Resident cards? (can you give me a website address or some direction of where I can read about this process? I would like to get as much information as possible to make sure I get this right first time!)

Do you know if with a Resident card, they will be able to travel to the UK to visit? I fly to the UK every weekend to see my family (my wife and two kids are still living there) and it would be great if they could visit the kids as well!

Post by **Obie** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:35 pm

JuniorG wrote:Thak you Obie for your time, I really appreciate it.

Couple of questions (again!):-

So, instead of applying for EEA family permits for them, I should apply for visas and once in Germany, I can apply for Resident cards? (can you give me a website address or some direction of where I can read about this process? I would like to get as much information as possible to make sure I get this right first time!)

Do you know if with a Resident card, they will be able to travel to the UK to visit? I fly to the UK every weekend to see my family (my wife and two kids are still living there) and it would be great if they could visit the kids as well!

Here is the website for the German embassy in the Dominican republic http://www.santo-domingo.diplo.de/Vertr ... seite.html

The EEA family permit applies to the UK only, the visa issued for EU nationals non-EEA family member i think is D category Schengen, but i am not 100% sure. Have a look at the website and see the requirements and the ones that apply to you.

I am assuming you are a literate in the German Language, because i am not.

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:09 pm

Obie wrote: I am assuming you are a literate in the German Language, because i am not.

haha! let's say I'm learning! very complicated language!
Thank you very much for the help!

Post by **Obie** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:38 pm

Smashing
You will master German before you notice.
I wish you every success for the future.
Keep us posted on any development.

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:14 pm

Hi Obie, all,

Just a quick note to thank you for the great support! Your advice has been very helpful. I have also found the following sites very informative and after reading through them, I feel very confident that my family will be granted family permits! Maybe someone in this forum can also find them useful:-

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/

http://www.easyexpat.com/forums/sutra_33920.htm

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=496102

I have started collecting all the papers I need to send to my family for them to deposit with their applications. Can you please tell me, I am going to include a letter with all my papers explaining the reason for the permit application (and re-iterating that it is a "Family Permit" in case they treat the application as a normal visa!). I am just wondering, is there a template or some letter format I should use to write this letter? (Maybe someone in this forum that may have applied for a permit already can give me some pointers on how to put this letter together?)

Again, you advice/suggestions are always appreciated.

Post by **Obie** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:36 am

Junior G,

Send a private message to Directive 2004/38C, who is a member aswell.
He has a lot of knowledge about the process in Germany.As lots of countries tend to implement it slightly different.

He mentioned the registration at the town hall some time ago as well.

He is very helpful and will provide valuable assistance.

Thanks

JuniorG · Post by **JuniorG** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:58 pm

Thank you again Obie!

Really appreciate it.

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British citizen wants to bring Dominican mother and brother

British citizen wants to bring Dominican mother and brother