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You certainly need a schengen visa which should be issue free of charge.JandL wrote:Hi there,
I am a non-eu citizen (Filipino) married to an Irish citizen. We plan to travel Paris or Rome for our 2nd year anniversary. I have few queries:
Do I need a Schengen Visa application form though I will travel with my husband?
You are not required under EU law to provide the above if you are married to an EU citizen (EU Citizen).JandL wrote:In travelling France, do they really need proof of employment, proof of address, proof of medical insurance and return ticken + hotel booking?
Shouldn't be a problem at allJandL wrote:We are currently living with my mum-in-law but we both used address of my mum-in-law on both our tax cert & bank statements(not joint) address. Will this be ok?
As stated earlier only your husband's passport and proof of your relationship are to be required from you. No air ticket , hotel booking ect are required and the visa should be issued free of chargeJandL wrote:Will bank statements prove that we can have sufficient financial means to support yourself during your journey ? We don't have medical insurance yet but if we apply for travel insurance, will they accept that?
How long will it take to get my visa upon application?
I hope somebody could clarify this as we really want to celebrate our anniversary in Paris or Rome.
As your right of entry is derived from your family ties with a Union citizen, all the Member State consular officials can ask you to produce for the visa application is your passport and a document establishing the family ties with a Union citizen, such as marriage or birth certificate and proof of dependence, where applicable.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
Consular officers issuing the visas may not:
* ask you to produce any documents other than a valid passport and documents attesting to your family link with a Union citizen and proof of dependence, where applicable, such as to furnish proof of means to support yourself, travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements, proof of accommodation, means of subsistence, medical certificate …
* ask you how much money you have to spend;
* ask you questions regarding the purpose and duration of your trip.
JandL wrote:In travelling France, do they really need proof of employment, proof of address, proof of medical insurance and return ticket + hotel booking?
EU Law or not, the French Embassy in Dublin require the following information from spouses of Irish Citizens (same list as any non-EU person applying for Schengen Visa). That list includes all the details that JandL mentioned including Health Insurance, Flights, Hotels etc. You can read about my husband's experience (also non-EU spouse of Irish Citizen) with getting a visa from the french Embassy recently here.Obie wrote:You are not required under EU law to provide the above if you are married to an EU citizen (EU Citizen).
Have you done this? Any results?scrudu wrote:You can fight it and go to Solvit or whoever, but that won't help you with getting your visa if you need it soon.
Hi JandL,JandL wrote:I am a non-eu citizen (Filipino) married to an Irish citizen. We plan to travel Paris or Rome for our 2nd year anniversary. I have few queries:
Do I need a Schengen Visa...
Yes I contacted both the German Embassy and Solvit regarding how the German Embassy insist on Stamp4 Spouses of Irish citizens having to apply for a German visa whereas Stamp4EUFAM holders do not. Both Solvit and the German Embassy disputed my claim that my husband (non-EU spouse of Irish citizen residing in Ireland on Stamp4) should not require a visa to enter Germany with me for tourism purposes.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Have you done this? Any results?scrudu wrote:You can fight it and go to Solvit or whoever, but that won't help you with getting your visa if you need it soon.
The German Embassy wrote the following:Fri, May 18, 2007 at 2:48 PM
Dear Ms. XX,
The Irish SOLVIT Centre have consulted with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform regarding your SOLVIT complaint.
The Department of Justice have informed us that a Stamp 4 and a Stamp 4EUFAM are both considered a residency card. However, Stamp 4 does not come under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC. As the non-EU spouse of an Irish citizen, your husband's residency application was looked at under Irish Law, namely the Immigration Act, 2004, and not European Law, Directive 2004/38/EC.
In this instance, the Irish SOLVIT Centre cannot bring a case against Germany as the Irish Stamp 4 residency card is not a residency card according to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, and so the German authority are correct in requiring your husband to complete the full tourist visa form.
The Irish SOLVIT Centre pointed out to the Department of Justice, that the European Directive does not distinguish between Irish and other EU citizens and that issuing a Stamp 4 residency card to third country spouses of Irish citizens was causing problems for them when travelling within the EU. However, the position is as set out above. The Irish SOLVIT Centre may raise this issue with the Department of Justice again in the future.
I regret that SOLVIT could not be of assistance in your case.
Kind Regards
Sinead
Irish SOLVIT Centre
Internal Market Section
Dept. Enterprise, Trade and Employment
Ph:+ 353 1 631 2740
Fax:+ 353 1 631 2562
We have traveled to Germany 5 times in the last 3 years and my husband has had to apply for a Schengen visa each time. Same rigmarole each time (Flight & hotel bookings, health insurance, employment letters, bank statements, passports, marriage cert etc.) as well as 2 appointments with the Embassy to submit application and pickup passport with visa. Each time getting issued with a Single Entry Schengen visa for the exact duration of stay. Similar experiences when traveling to France and Sweden although both of those Embassy allowed for longer duration of visas.Article 10 para 1 - in connection with Art. 5 para 2, 2nd sentence - of the Directive 2004/38/EC "on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States" rules that family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a Member State are only exempted from the visa requirement, if they are in possession of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen".
Thus, the Irish Garda Card meets according to the Irish Authorities the criteria of such a document, if the valid residence card shows the stamp "4 EUFAM". The "4" Stamp does not fulfill these requirements.
As you might see, it is not the Embassy's decision to grant "4 EUFAM" stamps only to family members of non-European spouses who are married to non-Irish Union citizens.
I can therefore only advise that you contact the Irish Officials on this matter
I don't know. Every time we've visited Germany the Airport Immigration Officers have searched the passport for a valid current Schengen Visa. Each time on the opposite page to that visa, they have stamped for Entry. Same procedure for Exiting the country. We've had the same experience when visiting Sweden, Greece, France, Switzerland and Spain on Schengen Visas issued by Germany/France/Sweden.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You might want to just try some visa-free travel. Go to Germany for a weekend, or even for a day.
I do not think you will have a problem. The German border police are a lot more professional then the embassy staff seem to be.
Hi 86ti,86ti wrote:Obviously they need a visa so why are you suggesting them to try without? Article 5(4).
sais that they can also "prove by other means" that they do not need one...Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.
I do not think that it says that you do not need a visa (see highlighted text). The part just says that, should you not have the required documents, you may be able to enter if you can proof your relationship by other means. Personally, I am still wondering what situations were anticipated by the makers of the directive.ca.funke wrote:Article 5, Section 4 of 2004/38/EC:
Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movementand residence.
Nobody checked when we flew to Dublin. Nobody checked when we flew back to the UK.86ti wrote:How do you get on an airplane/ship/etc.? For the carrier the visa requirement is still there.
The Directive requirements come directly from the ECJ decision of MRAX, which is very clearly written.86ti wrote:I do not think that it says that you do not need a visa (see highlighted text). The part just says that, should you not have the required documents, you may be able to enter if you can proof your relationship by other means. Personally, I am still wondering what situations were anticipated by the makers of the directive.
I think it doesn´t matter what they anticipated. What matters is that it´s a law as written.86ti wrote:...The part just says that, should you not have the required documents, you may be able to enter if you can proof your relationship by other means. Personally, I am still wondering what situations were anticipated by the makers of the directive.
My wife does not have a EU-law Residence Card.scrudu wrote: If anyone else who has a Spouse visa issued under National Law (not EU4FAM or EU Family Permit) has traveled successfully without a visa to a Schengen Country, I'd love to hear your experiences.
Remember there are two questions addressed by the Directive. First is does the person need a visa, especially when they have a Residence Card? Second is, if a non-EU family member does not have a needed visa, how are they handled at the border? These are separate issues with different answers.scrudu wrote:I would be willing to book a cheap flight to somewhere to test this theory, but the fact that all Embassies I've asked (German, Swedish, French) as well as Solvit disagree that the Directive/2004/38/EC provides for spouses of EU citizens who have do not hold an EU Family Permit, I am less than hopeful!