What good is solvit dealing with mis-application of EU law

[acme4242]

With the problems of illegal demands from Embassies
for supporting documents for a visa for third country
family members, spouse and children, accompanying
a Union citizen travelling to another EU state.

I sent this e-mail over a week ago to solvit@entemp.ie,
they don't even bother to acknowledge it.
What is the point. If the French, Irish and UK Embassies
think they are a law unto themselves. and the only organisation
that is suppose to be on our side, has no interest to assist us,
and confront these Embassies.

The Violations of our EU family rights is there in Black and White
on the Embassy websites.

French Embassy, on visa Document requirements for EEA family members
http://www.ambafrance.ie/article.php3?i ... cette+page

Irish Embassy, on visa Document requirements for EEA family members
http://www.embassyofireland.cn/Ireland/ ... Spouse.php

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Subject: document requirements for a visa for third country family members, spouse and children, accompanying a Union citizen travelling to Ireland.
To: solvit@entemp.ie


Dear Solvit,

On the question of the supporting document requirements
for a visa for third country family members, spouse and children,
accompanying a Union citizen travelling to Ireland.

I am writing to you after unsuccessfully trying to get
the Irish National authorities, the Irish Consulate,
and both the INIS and the office of the Irish Permanent
Representation to the EU to acknowledge the current
EU and Irish laws concerning the rights of EU family members
spouse and children.

Can you please clarify and confirm, if the following statement is correct,
as this is the basis of the dispute. see enclosure

"Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside
freely within the Union"

Chapter 4
Documents that can be required when applying for the visa

The right of entry of your third country family members is derived
from their family ties with you, a Union citizen. All the Member
State consular officials can ask for is their passport and a
document establishing their family ties with you, such as
marriage or birth certificate and proof of dependence, where
applicable. Your family members cannot be asked to present
documents such as travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips,
bank statements, proof of accommodation and means of subsistence
or a medical certificate.

However, the replies I received from the Irish Authorities,
they completely refuse to accept these limits and go
as far to say, that they may request whatever they please,
without limit. The phrase they use is their list is
not exhaustive and applications should be supported by
any information requested, or alternatively submitting
to the authorities the reason(s) why, in your view,
you are not be in a position to provide any requested material.

Can you please help clarify, and resolve this dispute.

My stance is based upon the citizen information from these links
http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html
http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

Whereas the Irish officials refuse to accept this, and list the
following non exhaustive requirements and demands.
http://www.embassyofireland.cn/Ireland/ ... Spouse.php
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... EU_Citizen

The latest of these Irish officials to reject the family rights over
the Irish Consulate demands is Dan.Kelleher@dfa.ie
Justice and Home Affairs Attaché at the Irish Permanent Representation.

Your Sincerely

[ciaramc]

I have to say I agree with you! I have found that SOLVIT have no interest in helping people (or at least that's my impression)! I'm not the only one either I have seen a few comments on this website from people complaining to SOLVIT without any success!

And I have also seen numerous times embassies requiring/demanding much more information than is required by EU law! Just have a look at the ten pages of questions that both the UK/Ireland ask when applying for a visa.

[Lost Soul]

The Irish SOLVIT Centre now has its own dedicated website at: http://www.solvitireland.ie

SOLVIT is an informal problem-solving network launched by the European Commission in 2002. It was created to solve problems that EU citizens or businesses are experiencing with the public administrations of EU Member States. These problems must be associated with a denial of their Internal Market rights due to Internal Market law not being applied correctly. There are SOLVIT Centres in all EU and EEA States.

The above is a quote from the SOLVIT section on the Enterprise site.

It is clearly stated that the problems that they will address have to be due to denial of Internal Market rights. This is a facility for addressing business problems not personal issues such as visa requirements.

[ciaramc]

Lost soul it clearly states

It was created to solve problems that EU citizens or businesses are experiencing with the public administrations of EU Member States.

I have to disagree I was informed by SOLVIT Ireland that they also deal with personal problems created by bad implementation of EU law by member states!

[scrudu]

With the problems of illegal demands from Embassies for supporting documents for a visa for third country family members, spouse and children, accompanying a Union citizen travelling to another EU state.

I sent this e-mail over a week ago to solvit@entemp.ie, they don't even bother to acknowledge it. What is the point. If the French, Irish and UK Embassies think they are a law unto themselves.

Add to this the following Embassies: Swedish, German, Dutch.

[86ti]

Is the EEA spouse Irish? If not I suggest to contact the SOLVIT centre of the spouse's nationality.

The problem with SOLVIT is that it doesn't have any actual powers. All they can do is to contact the competent authorities and discuss the issue with them. Some SOLVIT centres seem more helpful than others. Persistence may be helpful. The SOLVIT webpage contains forms for both online and conventional mail contacts. The site also lists telephone numbers and fax numbers.

[86ti]

The Irish SOLVIT Centre now has its own dedicated website at: http://www.solvitireland.ie

SOLVIT is an informal problem-solving network launched by the European Commission in 2002. It was created to solve problems that EU citizens or businesses are experiencing with the public administrations of EU Member States. These problems must be associated with a denial of their Internal Market rights due to Internal Market law not being applied correctly. There are SOLVIT Centres in all EU and EEA States.

The above is a quote from the SOLVIT section on the Enterprise site.

It is clearly stated that the problems that they will address have to be due to denial of Internal Market rights. This is a facility for addressing business problems not personal issues such as visa requirements.

If you take a closer look you will see that the web page also deals with complaints from citizens. Anyway, the right of free movement is a matter of the internal market.

[acme4242]

Its not much good if Solvit is powerless and shy.

The unlawful visa requirements are on many Embassy websites
in black and white. The ECJ already ruled such visa requirements illegal.



Case Law from the ECJ
=====================
see Case C-157/03 Commission vs Kingdom of Spain
in relation to Visa application procedures for
third country family members.

1. The requirement for an immigration visa
26. That national of a non-Member State should not be required to show any
independent reason for entering into the territory. His right, as a matter of
Community law, is derived from the right enjoyed by the Community national, so
that to require that person to fulfill formal conditions prior to entry into
national territory constitutes not only a restriction on his (derived) right but
also a restriction on the principal right of the Community national.

31. It is therefore apparent from the provisions of the directives on the
entry of members of the family, as interpreted by the Court, that entry
formalities must be restricted to the expressly specified documents and that any
further immigration procedure is not permissible.

"a document issued by the competent authority of the State of origin or the State whence they came, proving their relationship"

Also, a point to note, there are other inconsistencies between Embassies, located in different EU states
Such chaos is easy to spot and clean up.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Solvit helps to solve specific problems that specific people are having.

If you send them a super general brief (e.g. Ireland is not respecting EU law) then they will be useless.

They can not SOLVE problems themselves. They can broker and coax and encourage a solution. They do not, in themselves, have raw power to decide.

They have been useful for solving a specific problem I had. In the end the Irish visa was issued without the "required" free, "required" reference in Ireland, "required" travel details, "required" bank statement, "required" letter from employer. It was just issued.