EEA1&EEA2 returned wants evidence of Treaty Right??

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:47 am

hi all
I had sent jointly my EEA1 and my non-eea husband's EEA2 applications to Ho last week but both are returned this morning.
Wants
1) More evidence of Self employment
2) Evidence of exercising Treaty right

I know the first one is understandable but what is meant by showing Evidence of exercising Treaty right?

Thanks

My short history a bit
I am From Czech Republic
Husband from Pakistan
We married in UK in 2005.
then We both were living in Czech until we came here about 2 months ago. we have two children. Husband has a 6 months Entry clearance Visa issued in Czech which is finishing this month..

Post by **Obie** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:59 am

petra wrote:hi all
I had sent jointly my EEA1 and my non-eea husband's EEA2 applications to Ho last week but both are returned this morning.
Wants
1) More evidence of Self employment
2) Evidence of exercising Treaty right

I know the first one is understandable but what is meant by showing Evidence of exercising Treaty right?

Thanks

My short history a bit
I am From Czech Republic
Husband from Pakistan
We married in UK in 2005.
then We both were living in Czech until we came here about 2 months ago. we have two children. Husband has a 6 months Entry clearance Visa issued in Czech which is finishing this month..

I think No 1 is explaining no2 . They probably need further evidence you are exercising treaty rights.

What documents did you provide them initially?

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:23 pm

Obie wrote:
I think No 1 is explaining no2 . They probably need further evidence you are exercising treaty rights.

What documents did you provide them initially?

About self employment I provided the following.

Self employment confirmation letter from HMRC
Accountant Letter confirming me as client
Provided business Invoices issued to me by e.g. Makro etc.
Did not receive anything about National Insurance payment so wrote there "To Follow"
My bank 2 personal statements which is just started from April

I am qualified Tailor and I work from home.. what else I can provide

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:24 pm

What exactly did home office say about your application and what exactly did they ask for?

It seems what you sent is decent. Do you have any clients? Any UK clients who would be willing to write you a letter of reference?

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:44 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:What exactly did home office say about your application and what exactly did they ask for?

It seems what you sent is decent. Do you have any clients? Any UK clients who would be willing to write you a letter of reference?

I will write the exact context here once I get home.
Yes I can provide letters from my clients that I provide them services..

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:51 pm

I think all a letter would need to say is that they are a client of your tailoring service and maybe that you do kick-mule work.

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:20 pm

right

it says

you have applied for a registration certificate, Unfortunately our initial assessment of your application has revealed that you have not provided all the documents we require to process your application. You area application resource additional supporting documents in the following areas

=Evidence of exercising Treaty rights in the UK.
(then written by hand on the bottom)
Need evidence over a longer period of time to prove self employment.
Also National Insurance contribution that have been paid.

Now we have only moved to UK just 2 months ago.. how long is longer period??
National Insurance contribution demand notice has not come yet so we we can do about it.
The husband Family Permit VISA is finishing 20th July

What are our options...

Post by **Obie** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:33 pm

petra wrote: About self employment I provided the following.

Self employment confirmation letter from HMRC
Accountant Letter confirming me as client
Provided business Invoices issued to me by e.g. Makro etc.
Did not receive anything about National Insurance payment so wrote there "To Follow"
My bank 2 personal statements which is just started from April
I am qualified Tailor and I work from home.. what else I can provide

I think what you have provided should suffice.

My suspicion is they might have lost them. Do you have a copy of those documents.

I think you should resend it to them and write a letter to them saying they should provide you list of document other than the ones you have already supplied that the need.

You should also add what directive suggested

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:37 pm

Obie wrote:
petra wrote: About self employment I provided the following.

Self employment confirmation letter from HMRC
Accountant Letter confirming me as client
Provided business Invoices issued to me by e.g. Makro etc.
Did not receive anything about National Insurance payment so wrote there "To Follow"
My bank 2 personal statements which is just started from April
I am qualified Tailor and I work from home.. what else I can provide
I think what you have provided should suffice.

My suspicion is they might have lost them. Do you have a copy of those documents.

I think you should resend it to them and write a letter to them saying they should provide you list of document other than the ones you have already supplied that the need.

You should also add what directive suggested

everything came BACK with it i.e. bank statements, invoices, accountant lette and etc,..

i might try send it again...

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:12 pm

I would enclose a cover letter which says politely but firmly roughly the following:

I am an EU citizen. I am self employed in the UK and have been since arriving in the UK on DATE. As a self-employed person who is working in the UK, I am exercising my treaty rights under EU law, and as such my family and I have a right to be resident in the UK. I have enclosed all evidence that I have and I request and require that you proceed with processing my application and issue my confirmation and the Residence Card of my spouse as soon as possible and in no case longer than 6 months from the date of my original application.

I do not yet have evidence of National Insurance contributions, but this is not a specific required prerequisite under EU law for you to proceed with processing our applications. As you are aware, you are required to be flexible in processing applications from self-employed persons.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:20 pm

Note also that you do not need to send your original passports. You can send photocopies. Note in your letter that you will send the original passports when they are ready to issue the Residence Card.

I would also suggest you send the application by special delivery so that you keep the receipt of delivery.

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:29 pm

thanks I will do that.

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:53 pm

petra wrote:
The husband Family Permit VISA is finishing 20th July

And don't worry about your husband's Family Permit 'finishing' on 20th July. It was just an Entry Clearance for him to enter the UK as a Family Member under EU rules. As long as he is your husband and you are exercising your treaty rights, he will not be an overstayer; even after expiry of the EEA FP! He has every right to be with you in the UK.

petra · Post by **petra** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:51 pm

Rozen wrote:
petra wrote:
The husband Family Permit VISA is finishing 20th July

And don't worry about your husband's Family Permit 'finishing' on 20th July. It was just an Entry Clearance for him to enter the UK as a Family Member under EU rules. As long as he is your husband and you are exercising your treaty rights, he will not be an overstayer; even after expiry of the EEA FP! He has every right to be with you in the UK.

Oh
Are you sure?
anybody can please confirm.
Because this is the only thing worries me..

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:05 pm

petra wrote:
Rozen wrote:
petra wrote:
The husband Family Permit VISA is finishing 20th July

And don't worry about your husband's Family Permit 'finishing' on 20th July. It was just an Entry Clearance for him to enter the UK as a Family Member under EU rules. As long as he is your husband and you are exercising your treaty rights, he will not be an overstayer; even after expiry of the EEA FP! He has every right to be with you in the UK.
Oh
Are you sure?
anybody can please confirm.
Because this is the only thing worries me..

Trust me, 100% SURE! So stop worrying about that particular aspect, and just concentrate on sorting out the evidence they want.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:24 am

petra wrote:
Rozen wrote:And don't worry about your husband's Family Permit 'finishing' on 20th July. It was just an Entry Clearance for him to enter the UK as a Family Member under EU rules. As long as he is your husband and you are exercising your treaty rights, he will not be an overstayer; even after expiry of the EEA FP! He has every right to be with you in the UK.
anybody can please confirm.

Yes, it's correct what Rozen says.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:59 am

petra

You can relax. As long as the EU citizen is working or otherwise exercising treaty rights, the other family members have a right to be here. They can, if they want, apply for a Residence Card. But are not required to.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ropeanlaw/

Family members who come to the United Kingdom with an EEA or Swiss national, but who are not themselves nationals of an EEA country or Switzerland, can apply for a residence card (with some exceptions - see 'Family member residence stamp' below). The residence card confirms their right of residence under European law.

A residence card is normally valid for five years, and takes the form of an endorsement that is placed in the holder's passport.

If you want to apply for a residence card, you must complete application form EEA2. You can download the form from the right side of this page.

For your application to be accepted, you must provide a valid passport and evidence that you are a family member of the EEA national. See section 9 of the EEA2 application form for details of the supporting evidence that you must provide.

sebhoff · Post by **sebhoff** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:17 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Note also that you do not need to send your original passports. You can send photocopies. Note in your letter that you will send the original passports when they are ready to issue the Residence Card.

Are you sure? From what I have read, they changed procedure on 1st June: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ns-june-09

It seems to me that an application with certified copies instead of originals would (unfortunately) qualify for rejection of the application.

petra · Post by **petra** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:06 am

thank you all.

I have written a letter as Directive suggested and sending it today again however I am still sending all the original documents and passport just to be on the safe side as it looks like they have formed another department from 1st July called "DEPT 53" (that where mine came back from) who does the initial checking of the applications to make sure everything you send is original and so on..

I do not need them for a while anyway..

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:08 am

sebhoff wrote:Are you sure? From what I have read, they changed procedure on 1st June: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ns-june-09

It seems to me that an application with certified copies instead of originals would (unfortunately) qualify for rejection of the application.

I thought that was coming later. Good spot.

I would, in that case, instead ask for the immediate return of all your documents as soon as they have been verified. Tell them you will return the documents later when the Residence Card is ready to be issued.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:23 am

petra wrote:I do not need them for a while anyway.. :)

Ooo.. I would miss my passport. But then I do not also have an ID card.

I learn more and more with time. Note the following about self employement and national insurance.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/faqs/nicqse.htm#3

Is there a time limit for registering as self-employed?

There is no time limit to register. However, if you do not register within three months from the end of the month in which you first started your business, you will receive a penalty of Â£100 for late notification.

Morpheo · Post by **Morpheo** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:19 pm

I am confirming that my PR application was sent back because they wanted my original passport and decree absolute.

It only took a week to send back.

In a way, I think the new process is good because at least they make sure that everything is there before adding an application to the queue.

Well, I am not prepared to send my passport as yet because I am going for Holidays, I will resubmit my application once back.

M

sebhoff · Post by **sebhoff** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:47 pm

Morpheo wrote: In a way, I think the new process is good because at least they make sure that everything is there before adding an application to the queue.

I think this has been discussed elsewhere already, but anyway: I see *absolutely* no advantage in the new process as the only thing they will do after checking things is putting your application onto the huge lets-collect-dust pile. If this process had been introduced to distinguish between patently obvious cases that can be decided within 5 minutes (and then *are* decided immediately) and others, I would greatly welcome the change. But of course this is not the case. So the only thing that changes is that more people will find themselves in a situation where they need to extract their passports from the claws of our beloved Home Office.

Morpheo · Post by **Morpheo** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:18 pm

I had the bad experience of waiting for 10 months before getting my RC (retained the right of residence after divorce), however back in 2004 when I applied for a RC, it was decided and sent back in less than a month.

I agree that straight forward applications should be processed very quickly but I also welcome the fact that the HO has staff checking applications before passing them to case workers .

In the last 12 months we have seen EU applications moving to Liverpool, now they have introduced 1st level checks.

while remaining optimistic, I'll submit my application in August (back from Holidays) but I will start the chasing and complain process after the 6 months timeline.

petra · Post by **petra** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:51 pm

not a good news again

I have got the forms back from HO.
Asking the same silly thing

Evidence of treaty exercising.
and birth certificates of children (who are already on my passport and I even wrote there on the form "See page 4 on my passport for infant entries. I thought that was enough")

I still have not received my NIC payment advice as I had a letter to call HRMC and tell them when did I arrive in UK. I called them straight away and that was it.

shall I wait for when i receive the NIC letter or send only the birth certificates and post it before 20th JULY (this Monday) as husband Permit is finishing.
(I know he could stay here but as the rules changes so quickly we do not want to be on the wrong side of it so still a bit worry for us.)

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EEA1&EEA2 returned wants evidence of Treaty Right??

EEA1&EEA2 returned wants evidence of Treaty Right??

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Re: EEA1&EEA2 returned wants evidence of Treaty Right??

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