EU1 - other family member- Partner

[kabuki]

Hi, has anyone applied for the EU1 as a Partner, in my case a same-sex partner? If so, could you please tell me you experience.

My current situation:
We have been in a relationship for 2 years now. About half has been spent long distance as I'm from the US and she's Dutch and has been living in Ireland for 12 years.
I have emails and letters that we wrote each other during that time, as well as photos.
I should be able to track down my plane ticket or proof of purchase, plus my stamps in my passport to show the trips made.
I made a 3 week trip, 3 month trip, and 1 month trip here before getting a stamp 1a to work as a trainee accountant. (Stamp runs out in August).
I spent 3 months in the Netherlands between my stay in Ireland and the start of my job.
We've been on holiday together in Germany and the Netherlands (met her family and all) and make regular trips to see her parents on the west coast of Ireland.
We have only been on the same lease for about 7-8months, but I lived with her before moving to our current place. I wasn't on the lease as I was a visitor with no ppsno.
We don't have a joint account, but we both pay for everything.
She has a good job and is on a good wage and will be able to support me no problem, though she doesn't have a contract at the moment, but should shortly. However, she does have payslips from this job dating back to September, as well as payslips from her previous job. She should be able to get a letter from her employer.

We would like to apply through this route, but we aren't sure if we have a good case. As Ireland doesn't recognise same-sex marriage, we do not wish to go to the Netherlands to get married (it wouldn't really help). We could use that route anyway as Ireland doesn't recognise them. As long as we are in Ireland we won't get married. She's quite fond of Ireland as she has spent more than half her life here and doesn't want to move back to the Netherlands. I'm also applying for a postgraduate conversion program in IT, as my BA in English Literature won't get me anywhere here, but the program is very competitive to get into and very expensive. We planned to apply for this at some stage, so now would be good.

Any thoughts or advice will be much appreciated.

Also, what happens if we applied and it was denied and I just was on a stamp 2 then. Could we reapply in 1-2 years? Is an appeal possible?

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try and explain my situation to the fullest to get the best help possible. Also, if anyone knows of a good solicitor for this, please send me a pm.

Thanks in advance. Cheers!

[Obie]

You will have to provide evidence that you have had a sustainable relationship for about 2 years. Joint financial commitment like mortgage, bills in both of your names, joint bank statement. I am not confident that Email Conversations will suffice for a defacto relationship application.

I am doubtful that long distance relationship will be taken into consideration as part of the 2 years. You have to have lived as partner in a defacto relationship to qualify.

I guess she is a holder of a Dutch Passport as well , which she will be using to make the application.

You can nevertheless put your application through and see what they say,

However what ever happens, you could be rest assured your Stamp 2 status will not be Jeopardized. And if circumstance changes, you can always apply at a later period

[kabuki]

Thanks Obie for the reply.

I wasn't sure if the long distance part would count or not. I did visit during those times, as that was the only thing I could do, so she paid the bills as I lived with her.

Do you (or anyone) know if you can reapply a year later for the EU1 if the first application is denied?

I'm also assuming it could take 6+ months for a decision. Would I be given a stamp 4 while waiting?

Cheers.

[Obie]

Thanks Obie for the reply.

I wasn't sure if the long distance part would count or not. I did visit during those times, as that was the only thing I could do, so she paid the bills as I lived with her.

Do you (or anyone) know if you can reapply a year later for the EU1 if the first application is denied?

I'm also assuming it could take 6+ months for a decision. Would I be given a stamp 4 while waiting?

Cheers.

They are supposed to facilitate your ability to work while you application is pending, without you having to apply for a work permit.

This can be translated as Stamp 4, but the law doesn't explicitly say they should grant you a stamp 4 per sa.

Of late the DOJ have been acting erratically, some people receive their Stamp 4 whiles their application is pending, and some like myself don't. So it depends on who is dealing with your application, and whether he/she knows what the law require.

Please note that the Stamp 4 is only valid for the period of 6 months, whiles your application is being examined.

If in the unfortunate event of your application being rejected, the stamp 4 will cease to exist and you will be back to square 1.

You can reapply as i notified you earlier, if the circumstance for which you where originally rejected changes.

[calai]

[quote="kabuki"]Hi, has anyone applied for the EU1 as a Partner, in my case a same-gender partner? If so, could you please tell me you experience.My current situation:We have been in a relationship for 2 years now. About half has been spent long distance as I'm from the US and she's Dutch and has been living in Ireland for 12 years.I have emails and letters that we wrote each other during that time, as well as photos.I should be able to track down my plane ticket or proof of purchase, plus my stamps in my passport to show the trips made.I made a 3 week trip, 3 month trip, and 1 month trip here before getting a stamp 1a to work as a trainee accountant. (Stamp runs out in August).I spent 3 months in the Netherlands between my stay in Ireland and the start of my job.We've been on holiday together in Germany and the Netherlands (met her family and all) and make regular trips to see her parents on the west coast of Ireland.We have only been on the same lease for about 7-8months, but I lived with her before moving to our current place. I wasn't on the lease as I was a visitor with no ppsno.We don't have a joint account, but we both pay for everything.She has a good job and is on a good wage and will be able to support me no problem, though she doesn't have a contract at the moment, but should shortly. However, she does have payslips from this job dating back to September, as well as payslips from her previous job. She should be able to get a letter from her employer.We would like to apply through this route, but we aren't sure if we have a good case. As Ireland doesn't recognise same-gender marriage, we do not wish to go to the Netherlands to get married (it wouldn't really help). We could use that route anyway as Ireland doesn't recognise them. As long as we are in Ireland we won't get married. She's quite fond of Ireland as she has spent more than half her life here and doesn't want to move back to the Netherlands. I'm also applying for a postgraduate conversion program in IT, as my BA in English Literature won't get me anywhere here, but the program is very competitive to get into and very expensive. We planned to apply for this at some stage, so now would be good.Any thoughts or advice will be much appreciated.Also, what happens if we applied and it was denied and I just was on a stamp 2 then. Could we reapply in 1-2 years? Is an appeal possible?Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try and explain my situation to the fullest to get the best help possible. Also, if anyone knows of a good solicitor for this, please send me a pm.Thanks in advance. Cheers![/quote]

Hi,

I understand your situation as I'm in a very similar situation (but not same-gender partnership). The difference is he is Irish and we have a much longer relationship. We broke up and i moved away in the recent years. However, he would help me to provide evidence like photos, flight tickets etc but we never have lease agreement as he owns the house where we were living together.

Did you have a look of
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

Your trainee accountancy contract is probably the easiest way to let you stay in Ireland. I guess you are/were doing ICAI? I was told some colleagues of mine were fired because they failed the recent CAP 1 exam even before the re-sit. Im still waiting for my results
Is it your choice just to persue another course (say IT) for the sake of a stamp 2 or you just want to change your career? I myself have applied for a post grad program in 1 of the best uni in Dublin before and got rejected in the 1st found. However, i was lucky to get a last minute offer in the 2nd round. There were 40 places in the class and only 4 non Irish students got the offer. 2 were stamp 4 holders. An Australian got his offer a few months ago. I was 1 of the 2 who got the last minute offer, im not sure if it has something to do with my British nationality. I was lucky enough to get EU fee status (I did not meet the residency requirement)

If you are still willing to do Accountancy courses, there are options. I assume you are/were doing ICAI, you could either continue to do CAP 2 (providing you passed all CAP 1) or switch to ACCA/CIMA/CPA. You could still pay to do CAP 2 and i think the institute could send a letter to GNIB and you could continue to get a stamp 1a or stamp 2 in the worst sceanario. This is just to keep you in Ireland for 1 year as you have to have 2 years experience when you sit for your FAE, which means you must have a full time job while you are doing your CAP 2. CAP 2 is way cheaper than post grad course in any state uni and you don't have to worry about getting an offer (same case for ACCA). If you switch to ACCA, you have to be fast as the coming term will be from around late Aug to Nov (exams in Dec) and you have to complete all transfer procedures by 15 Aug if my memory is correct. If you study ACCA full time, your college can help you to get a stamp 2. If you manage to find a full time job and switch to do part time ACCA, I think you can write to ACCA and they can issue a letter to GNIB and probably get you a stamp 1a. Providing you pass all accountancy exams and get 3 or 3.5 years experience, you can be a chartered accountant and apply for the green card. I was told by a GNIB officier that stamp 1a could be counted as part of the 5 years requirement towards stamp 4.

Im not sure if US has a work holiday visa agreement with Ireland. Otherwise you can take advantage of it and get another year of stamp 1.
Good luck.

[kabuki]

Thanks Obie. we might have to chance it anyway. I'm not sure if I'm going to get everything taken care of in time.

Calai: I really don't wish to continue with accountancy and I failed all of my cap1 exams. I'm not sure when I'll be let go. I took results day off and will be going in tomorrow. I might be allowed to resit, but I don't wish to pay over €2000 to resit these exams. I'm really not fond of the ICAI or the firm I work for. Plus, accounting really bores me. I'd rather spend the money on the IT course and hope to find a job afterwards. In a year, my partner might be going back to college in the UK or elsewhere in the EU, so things may change.

The US and Ireland just started a 1 year work and holiday visa, but I'm not sure how long it takes to get the visa or if there will be any issues. They don't seem to require much money to bring with you, just health insurance, and I have that here plus a pps no. already. I thought about 1 more year of accountancy, but I would have to switch to ACCA or CPA and find another job fast. I don't believe there are any full-time ACCA programs, nor do I wish to attend a full-time accountancy course.

Thanks for the advice. I really wish accountancy were for me. It would all be working out. We thought we had it figured out last year and were in the clear. Unfortunately, I just don't seem to excel at accountancy. That's a first for me.

Cheers. I hope we figure something out as time is running out. I just hope I can work until the end of the month at least.

[calai]

[quote="kabuki"]Thanks Obie. we might have to chance it anyway. I'm not sure if I'm going to get everything taken care of in time.

Calai: I really don't wish to continue with accountancy and I failed all of my cap1 exams. I'm not sure when I'll be let go. I took results day off and will be going in tomorrow. I might be allowed to resit, but I don't wish to pay over €2000 to resit these exams. I'm really not fond of the ICAI or the firm I work for. Plus, accounting really bores me. I'd rather spend the money on the IT course and hope to find a job afterwards. In a year, my partner might be going back to college in the UK or elsewhere in the EU, so things may change.

The US and Ireland just started a 1 year work and holiday visa, but I'm not sure how long it takes to get the visa or if there will be any issues. They don't seem to require much money to bring with you, just health insurance, and I have that here plus a pps no. already. I thought about 1 more year of accountancy, but I would have to switch to ACCA or CPA and find another job fast. I don't believe there are any full-time ACCA programs, nor do I wish to attend a full-time accountancy course.

Thanks for the advice. I really wish accountancy were for me. It would all be working out. We thought we had it figured out last year and were in the clear. Unfortunately, I just don't seem to excel at accountancy. That's a first for me.

Cheers. I hope we figure something out as time is running out. I just hope I can work until the end of the month at least.[/quote]

It is not so easy to find a job in the IT industry. The boyfriend of a colleague of mine who works as an IT technician could not sort out his stamp 1 for the next year. Fortunately, his girlfriend (on a stamp 1a) is willing to marry him.

Personally, i think the difference between CAP 2 and ACCA is one being open book exam and the other being closed book exam. I think all employers (at least the big 4) will let all trainees go if they fail their re-sits (CAP 1 level) as they could not finish their FAE before the end of the training contracts. I am still waiting for my results in Aug.
There are places where you can do full time ACCA such as Independent colleges. I was told by the college that getting a stamp 2 means I have to enrol for 2 papers in each semester (5 months). The tuition fees of each paper is about 1000 (mine would be 1300 for final papers) plus registration and exemption fee (ACCA) if you transfer any CAP 1 subjects you pass at the end. I have spoken with some of their tutors and they recommend me to switch to ACCA rather than CPA or CIMA. You may check with ACCA, there is a list of tuition providers on their website. Dublin Business School is good and cheaper but im not sure if they offer full time course.

I was on a working holiday visa a few years ago and it was free so im not sure how complicated it could be (well Im a British national but do not have EU citizenship). The Irish consulate cheaked my medical and personal liability insurance for a year, as well as bank statements. The IO at the airport did not even stamp my passport at that time (he even asked me why i went back to him to ask for a stamp as a EU national ) The GNIB did not check my insurance, PPS etc, just passport, address and mobile no. Do not take my GNIB experience as a reference as i have an impression that it just happened to be too easy for me as a national of a EEA member state (I even got stamp 1 as a uni student before i got my stamp 1a)

Just read your other post, I did not get VHI. I got a BUPA one in Asia which covers anywhere except North America, and is 3 times cheaper than the cheapest plan of VHI. I don't know the details of the US-Ireland work holiday scheme but i think you just need an insurance that covers your stay in Ireland.

[kabuki]

Thanks Calai. I'm looking into the full-time program. I'm not sure if I hate accountancy or working for a huge corporation. I'm currently in a big 4 and don't like the environment at all. Too much unnecessary bullying. I definitely don't want to pay to resit all exams. In fact, not to impressed with the ICAI.

I just might try the full-time course at BPP. It's pretty cheap and close by. Plus, they offer insurance for €150 for the year. Not too bad. I just might enjoy doing my first year of study at a normal college with normal classes. The ICAI structure is awful with some dreadful instructors. I found everything very frustrating. Plus, it'll save me taking out over $20,000 in student loans for the IT course and I can do my certs slowly along the way.

I can work part-time with the stamp 2? After passing F1-F4, will it be possible to find a trainee position and continue part-time on a Stamp 1a with the ACCA?

Thanks for everything.

[calai]

Yes, you can work part time (up to 20 hrs) as a student and full time during holiday.
I do not want to put you off, but it is very difficult to get a training contract starting this year. You do not have to look for a place in practice, you can look for one in industry. I would like to look for another job but I haven't got any good news (I should have F1-F9 exemptions/CAP1 & CAP 2 and 1st year of taxation qualification now). I know an Asian guy who have been looking for a place for the last 10 months (after he passed CAP 1) is still jobless. He has done CAP 2 during the time but he couldn't even pay to do FAE. Not easy.

I know it is not easy to work in big 4, im not sure if it has something to do with your relationship (no offence). To be honest, even you pass all re-sits and stay on for another year, you may find it too hard to continue for another year as you would get promoted every year with a more difficult exam to sit while possibly having less study leave or having to do more overtime.
I do not like the ICAI system as they will intoduce a new FAE next year.
You will be assessed based on your competency and there will be no pass mark. The only advantage of doing ICAI is the qualification is recognised in the US.

[kabuki]

I'm not too worried about a job in accountancy at the moment. I'm hoping I can carry my year of experience here over so that will give me 1 year. I just want any part-time job to pay my share of the bills as I don't want to stick my partner with everything.

My issue with the big 4 is the way they work. I find they are the exact opposite of what the advertise. I didn't get much support; I got more threats. It's ridiculous. I also got stuck in a group with a high turnover rate on managers as the Director and Partner are very high maintenance. Part of it is me. I don't fit in this aspect of the corporate world. I would prefer industry work, maybe even a small practice. I should've took the small practice job over the big 4 in the first place.

As for conversion to US. The ACCA is accepted over there; however, I'm not looking to return. I love living in Europe and hope to remain in Ireland or move to the Netherlands or UK.

Thanks for all your help. I'm looking in to those schools and applying now. Do you know how long it takes to receive your registration letter from the ACCA? Also, though I'm not claiming any exemptions, I'll be using my BA to gain entrance. Does this have to be an original transcripts?

Thanks.

[calai]

ACCA entry requirements

http://www.accaglobal.com/join/acca/entry

I was told by a college that i can register on line

http://www.accaglobal.com/join/register/

I suggest you to call ACCA in Dublin before you register on line

http://www.accaglobal.com/contacts/offices/ireland

Please let me know your experience concerning ACCA as I'm thinking of applying next year.

I also came from a similar background (big 4). The reality is the big firms can afford to employ graduates from a non Accounting/finance background as they have resources and training personnel in place to facilitate this. Many small practice would prefer to employ local Accounting graduates as this can save them tuition fee, study leave, visa fee etc and those Accounting graduates have more knowledge and probably understand the job better.

From the ICAI advertisement, I think it is the only one recognised by AICPA but it would not make any difference if you are not going back to the US.

I don't know if US has a work holiday program with the UK.
In terms of courses, there are IT courses like CISA that you may consider. Some of my friends working in Internal Audit study CISA. I think it is useful as you can use your knowledge to work in IT (security) and audit (risk/internal audit). I think there is CISA tuition provider in Dublin as well. See if it is a better option for you.

ACCA is not easier than ICAI but it is more flexible. I recommend you to consider this and/or CISA in the sense of securing a place in a college to get a stamp 2 in the worst scenario. I don't mean it doesn't worth to do a post grad IT course but you know how much it may cost you plus there is no guarantee to get an offer. However, if you are thinking of moving to the UK in the future and apply Tier 1, you need to have a master degree or chartered accountancy qualification (deemed to be a master).

All these may be too much for you to process at the moment. I do wish I know all these when i first came to work here in 2003. I was forced to change my career to accountancy as there was no more work permits for my previous career.

[kabuki]

Thanks. I have most of that info and rang them this morning. I actually did loads of research and can tell you all about the structure of the CPA, ACCA and ICAI. I researched it all last year. However, I couldn't find the full time ACCA courses and really needed to work, so I took a job I was offered at a big 4. I had an offer at a small practice, but they got back to me the day after I confirmed with the big 4. That really sucked as I was really interested in the small practice that offered me a job.

I'm not under any disillusion that the ACCA exams are easier than the ICAI, it's the course structure that I like. I think the structure will work much better for me and how I work and learn. Also, I get the impression from the ICAI that it's all about the money. The fees yo pay there are ridiculous in regards to the ACCA. Also, I like the normal class structure and options in where and how to study with the ACCA and not having to spending all weekend at a course with a horrible lecturer.

Now I'm ranting. My apologies. On another note, I noticed the ACCA update their document in regards to immigration back in January. You can now complete your practical experience with Stamp 1A after completing exams, though I hope I can carry this year forward. Also, once your membership application is accepted, they are allowing new members to take advantage of the graduate scheme that gives you a stamp 2 for 6 months to allow you to find a job. That's fantastic.

Thanks again.

[calai]

It's good to know that you have made your decision. Unfortunately, I could not apply for the coming term as my CAP 2 results would not be release until mid Aug while ACCA requires students to apply all exemptions by the end of July. They have a new rule that all students have to complete F1-F9 before sitting for the professional papers. So it would not make any sense for me to claim exemptions now. It is good to know that ACCA will let you get 6 months stamp 2 after you applied for your membership. Would ACCA help you to get a stamp 1a while you study full time in a college and work part time?
I was worried that ACCA could not help me to stay long in Ireland as I have only 5 papers left (less than 1.5 years to complete). I still need another 2 years of stamp 1 to meet the 5 years requirement of stamp 4.

[agniukas]

Hi,

Sorry to tell you the bad news, but stamp 1A does not count towards long term residency (stamp 4 for 5 years) if that was the one you were refering to...

[calai]

Where did you get this information?

I was told by an GNIB officer that i would be able to get a stamp 4 after 5 years of stamp 1 or 1a. Anyway, i should be able to get a green card after i finish my training. I am not sure, it seems that some GNIB officers are very picky while some are not.

[kabuki]

Thanks agniukas, I already knew this. Immigration views the Stamp 1A as a student stamp and therefore is doesn't count as reckonable residence. I cleared this with the GNIB last year when I registered as many people had the same question. I had 3 people people there confirm it, but again, it may depend on who you get. There is a discussion here: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... stamp++ltr.

However, having the qualification qualifies you for a green card as long as the job pays €30,000. Also, the ACCA has multiple agreements with the GNIB. You complete exams on a Stamp 2 and then proceed to completing your practical experience on a Stamp 1a. After all is complete and you application for membership is accepted, you also qualify for the graduate scheme which will give you a 6 month student stamp to allow you to look for a job and apply for a green card.
See guidelines here: http://www.accaglobal.com/documents/non ... elines.pdf.

I'm not trying to use this as a path to LTR or Naturalisation. I plan on remaining with my partner, married or unmarried. By the time I complete the course, we'll have been together for 5+ years, so I'll be able to stay with her using EU1 no problem. We aren't even sure if we'll remain in Ireland, though she is quite fond of it here, as am I. If I seek any EU citizenship, it will be Dutch through her.

[sunandoghosh]

is usa cpa equivalent to uk masters degree for tier 1

[kabuki]

is usa cpa equivalent to uk masters degree for tier 1

You'll be better off asking someone in the UK forums, but I think it is, as the option given for level of qualification is for a masters or professional qualification. However, I'm unsure of the details.

[sunandoghosh]

thanks

[kabuki]

Thanks for all the help. We submitted out application on Wednesday of last week and received our letter to take to the GNIB for a 6 month Stamp 4 and our documents back within 2 business days. I just went to the GNIB today and was issued with a Stamp 4 for 6 months without any issues. Although, something was going on there today as they issued tickets and sent everyone away until 1pm.

I hope we receive a letter that makes things more permanent in the near future.

[tallinntodublin]

Thanks for all the help. We submitted out application on Wednesday of last week and received our letter to take to the GNIB for a 6 month Stamp 4 and our documents back within 2 business days. I just went to the GNIB today and was issued with a Stamp 4 for 6 months without any issues. Although, something was going on there today as they issued tickets and sent everyone away until 1pm.

I hope we receive a letter that makes things more permanent in the near future.

Hi kabuki, and congratulations. If I understand correctly, this was EU1 form submission that you referred to here? Were you able to submit the EU1 application in person? and receive the acknowledgement letter and original passports back in person 2 days later? Or did you submit the stuff by mail, and receive it back in the mail too? I and my girlfriend will have to deal with this in the near future, and we are trying to undrstand if we can just go over to the immigration office physically in order to submit the app in person, or must this be done by mail? It's nice to know that you were able to get the originals back in 2 business days, because I recall reading at INIS website that it may take upto a month to get them back. Or perhaps I am mistaken.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[kabuki]

Thanks for all the help. We submitted out application on Wednesday of last week and received our letter to take to the GNIB for a 6 month Stamp 4 and our documents back within 2 business days. I just went to the GNIB today and was issued with a Stamp 4 for 6 months without any issues. Although, something was going on there today as they issued tickets and sent everyone away until 1pm.

I hope we receive a letter that makes things more permanent in the near future.

Hi kabuki, and congratulations. If I understand correctly, this was EU1 form submission that you referred to here? Were you able to submit the EU1 application in person? and receive the acknowledgement letter and original passports back in person 2 days later? Or did you submit the stuff by mail, and receive it back in the mail too? I and my girlfriend will have to deal with this in the near future, and we are trying to undrstand if we can just go over to the immigration office physically in order to submit the app in person, or must this be done by mail? It's nice to know that you were able to get the originals back in 2 business days, because I recall reading at INIS website that it may take upto a month to get them back. Or perhaps I am mistaken.

Thanks in advance for your help!

We gathered all our documents and placed them in a binder with a tabs and a table of contents. It must be posted, so we sent it registered post to ensure the documents were received. They kept a few documents, proof of insurance and letters from family (as were are not married), but sent everything else back to us via registered post.

I've heard some people have had issues, but I've also heard from those who have been very organised that they have received these documents back with the letter to take to the GNIB for the 6 month stamp 4 during the application processing time within 2-5 business days.

I'm also aware that some people have had issues getting the Stamp 4 for 6 months. The letter even states that I MAY be issued with a stamp 4 for 6 months. I know that sometimes the nationality of the non-eu national can affect this, unfortunately.

Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

[tallinntodublin]

We gathered all our documents and placed them in a binder with a tabs and a table of contents. It must be posted, so we sent it registered post to ensure the documents were received. They kept a few documents, proof of insurance and letters from family (as were are not married), but sent everything else back to us via registered post.

I've heard some people have had issues, but I've also heard from those who have been very organised that they have received these documents back with the letter to take to the GNIB for the 6 month stamp 4 during the application processing time within 2-5 business days.

I'm also aware that some people have had issues getting the Stamp 4 for 6 months. The letter even states that I MAY be issued with a stamp 4 for 6 months. I know that sometimes the nationality of the non-eu national can affect this, unfortunately.

Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks much. Happy for you:)