a quick report on the feeling to live inside Schengen

[ca.funke]

Hello all,

after 2 years of bureaucratic nightmare of living in Ireland with my Lebanese wife (which made me a regular in this forum), we now live in Zürich.

After only 3 months here I can report the following: It´s just great

We already conducted a totally stress-free journey by car ("shall we go today or tomorrow?") to Germany. Another trip to Belgium (via France and Luxembourg) followed shortly.

Today we´re just after coming back from celebrating our second wedding-anniversary in Malta. The flight took us from Zürich to Malta and back. There were simply no problems at all. Except for check-in we didn´t use our passports.

Sitting in Malta airport this noon (Hard-Rock Café in front of the gate, how cool is that?), we saw several flights bound to the UK. While having a sandwich we saw passengers bound to Norwich and Manchester heading to Passport-Control. That´s when I decided I have to post this very post later on.

Why is there passport-free travel from Iceland to Malta, from Portugal to Estonia, while 2 little islands in the west of Europe think they´re better? I still fail to understand...

(excuses for the emotinal post, but it was just such a great feeling)

...regards from Zürich,
Christian

[Obie]

Hello all,

after 2 years of bureaucratic nightmare of living in Ireland with my Lebanese wife (which made me a regular in this forum), we now live in Zürich.

After only 3 months here I can report the following: It´s just great

We already conducted a totally stress-free journey by car ("shall we go today or tomorrow?") to Germany. Another trip to Belgium (via France and Luxembourg) followed shortly.

Today we´re just after coming back from celebrating our second wedding-anniversary in Malta. The flight took us from Zürich to Malta and back. There were simply no problems at all. Except for check-in we didn´t use our passports.

Sitting in Malta airport this noon (Hard-Rock Café in front of the gate, how cool is that?), we saw several flights bound to the UK. While having a sandwich we saw passengers bound to Norwich and Manchester heading to Passport-Control. That´s when I decided I have to post this very post later on.

Why is there passport-free travel from Iceland to Malta, from Portugal to Estonia, while 2 little islands in the west of Europe think they´re better? I still fail to understand...

(excuses for the emotinal post, but it was just such a great feeling)

...regards from Zürich,
Christian

I suppose it has a lot to do with this feeling of superiority. The British think they are the most advanced and superior country on the planet.
They believe, they are the only one capable of doing border checks and that all other countries are incompetent in doing so.

They are of the false believe that every people on this planet wants to come and live in the UK and that there will be this sudden in flock of people coming in. They are particularly worry about this sudden demographic time bomb that the BNP have been talking about and the third country tidal wave.

I can't wait to get away from these silly people.

I am developing my french skill everyday, and i might just get the hell out of this place to settle somewhere in the continent, if my future goes as plan.

Needless to say the Irish are just a fool, following their masters orders.

I need to make clear that i am referring to the Irish Authority. As i couldn't bring myself to insult the vast majority of welcoming Irish i have met since coming to this country.

[Ben]

Bonju Christian!

You seem to be having a great time. Malta's lovely, I used to go every year when I was a child, with my parents. Second home of the British, they say!

Just in response to Obie's derogatory comments about the British. I'm pretty sure we don't feel that our country is the most advanced and superior country on the planet. Nor do we believe that our country is the only one capable of doing border checks.

You seem to be forgetting that France does not have outward border checks. Clandestines bound for Dover or other UK ports are not stopped - by French authorities - from leaving France.

Take a look at the statistics. The UK Border Agency has told the BBC that in the last five years, UK officials have stopped more than 88,500 attempts from people trying to get into the UK illegally. Of those, 61,000 were at Calais alone.

If 17700 illegals are stopped annually, how many get through? If the UK and Ireland were to join Schengen (which, by the way, I think they should - but not Schengen in it's present form), the number if unlawful entrants would surely spiral.

For persons with the right of lawful travel among the Member States, Schengen is great. However, it cannot be ignored that the Schengen agreement also makes provision for those without this right to exploit the open borders.

In my opinion, there should be accountability for Member States who openly allow illegal migrants to leave their territory unchecked. The EU should impose fines on such States, so as to encourage them to make as much effort to stop them leaving as the other State does to stop them entering.

Finally, if any such changes were to be implemented, they should be done now. Then the UK and Ireland should join Schengen immediately. Otherwise, if Scotland were to become independent, join the EU and thus Schengen in it's current form, there could be passport checks and a patrolled border between England and Scotland which has not existed since 1707!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You seem to be forgetting that France does not have outward border checks. Clandestines bound for Dover or other UK ports are not stopped - by French authorities - from leaving France.

There is exit controls from French airport, French train stations (Eurostar), and in Dover (when they happen to be in the booth).

[Ben]

There is exit controls from French airport, French train stations (Eurostar), and in Dover (when they happen to be in the booth).

I was really referring to the startling ease at which clandestines can enter lorries in Calais - with no one to stop them until either they arrive in the UK or are caught by UK authorities in Calais.

[Obie]

Just in response to Obie's derogatory comments about the British. I'm pretty sure we don't feel that our country is the most advanced and superior country on the planet. Nor do we believe that our country is the only one capable of doing border checks.

Ben i am a bit baffled as to which aspect of my statement is derogatory about the British. All my comments are based on facts. You only have to open the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph, BNP Newsletter and Migration watch 1p rubbish, to get a clear picture of the British Mindset. You might be an exception to the rule but certainly not the norm.
This is not a pigment of my imagination, it is the status quo at present.

Remember i lived in the UK for 11 years, before my family moved to Ireland. I went there as a 9 year old child. I am therefore saying this from personal experience and observation. I spent more time there than any other place on earth.

Denmark has one of the most hostile anti-immigration policy in Europe, but it doesn't stop them removing unwanted guests, or prevent them joining the Schengen.

You only need to look at opinion polls, to realise that the vast majority of British loathe the EU so much, and are strongly against EU integration policies.

Needless to mention the voting of two BNP members and the advancement of UKIP in the EU parliament, to remove any obscurity in your mind that the UK don't believe or trust in Europe full stop. Even if the mechanism you suggested are implemented, the UK will still outrightly reject Schengen. I am not a betting man, but i will put my life on that.

[Ben]

Ben i am a bit baffled as to which aspect of my statement is derogatory about the British.

Really?!

All my comments are based on facts. You only have to open the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph, BNP Newsletter and Migration watch 1p rubbish, to get a clear picture of the British Mindset.

Jesus - if you think the "British mindset" can be determined by what you read in the Daily Mail or the others - I'm shocked and, frankly, a bit frightened.

You might be an exception to the rule but certainly not the norm.
This is not a pigment of my imagination, it is the status quo at present.

Remember i lived in the UK for 11 years, before my family moved to Ireland. I went there as a 9 year old child. I am therefore saying this from personal experience and observation. I spent more time there than any other place on earth.

That's great Obie - but your perceived observations cannot justify your comments such as, "The British think they are the most advanced and superior country on the planet. They believe, they are the only one capable of doing border checks and that all other countries are incompetent in doing so."

You only need to look at opinion polls, to realise that the vast majority of British loathe the EU so much, and are strongly against EU integration policies.

I'd like to see these opinion polls. As long as they're not something from the Daily Mail, that is.

Needless to mention the voting of two BNP members and the advancement of UKIP in the EU parliament, to remove any obscurity in your mind that the UK don't believe or trust in Europe full stop. Even if the mechanism you suggested are implemented, the UK will still outrightly reject Schengen. I am not a betting man, but i will put my life on that.

If an independent Scotland comes about, the UK may be left with no choice.

[Darkhorse]

Remember i lived in the UK for 11 years, before my family moved to Ireland. I went there as a 9 year old child. I am therefore saying this from personal experience and observation. I spent more time there than any other place on earth.

I was in UK for 1 year and I can feel that. Of course I look different in colour and was invited to work there. Of course they know my original country is poorer. I do feel they see themselve as a master.

When I moved to Ireland, I have much better feeling among the irish. Much more friendly. I know the delay in INIS but that is different issue.
In our office we have people from UK sending us post using UK stamp rather than EU stamps event though they have told a lot of times.
Even my friend who is british send me a wedding invitation using UK stamps that arrive 2 weeks later after theirs wedding.
This is just an example that among the british that all island of ireland still UK.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There are certainly some people in the UK who have very odd and sad views of immigration and/or "foreigners" (often used to refer to non-white or non-english-as-a-mother-anguage "foreigners"). Some of the BNP posters in the recent elections were great: roughly "End to unrestricted European immigration". (Get rid of those damn Germans???)

You can hear those views in most countries. In some lounder and in some on the quiet lunatic fringe.

There is an especially funny view in the UK that it is “specialâ€

[Ben]

In our office we have people from UK sending us post using UK stamp rather than EU stamps event though they have told a lot of times.
Even my friend who is british send me a wedding invitation using UK stamps that arrive 2 weeks later after theirs wedding.
This is just an example that among the british that all island of ireland still UK.

This I agree with. "Ireland? Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland?" is often said, when I go home and meet old friends, tell them where I'm living. Even my father, when sending post to me, insists on writing "Southern Ireland" at the bottom of my address and affixing a standard 1st class stamp. I cringe when I see it..

But this is ignorance, not arrogance.

There is an especially funny view in the UK that it is “specialâ€

[ciaramc]

I have to say I read through the post and it almost made me laugh ....Obie what you think of the UK I think of Italy.....ITALY where it is now a crime if your an illegal immigrant? punishable with 5 years in prison (where they think they are going to put all the illegals presently in the country I don't know?)

You can not even go to a hospital if you have no documents? A women actually died a couple of weeks ago because she was afraid to go to the hospital?
Here the Pope calls for there to be an amnesty (But only for domestic helps? As if the other poor illegal workers don't count?) and the Government actually approve it? Even though they just made being an Overstayer/illegal a crime?

Here in Italy the average time for renewing your residence card is about a year?

So we always think one place is worse than the other....I have to say the more I go home to Ireland (a nation of immigrants) the more I see and hear dearly beloved comments and derogatory remarks

[Obie]

Hi Ben,

I have lived in the South and North of England, and i can comfortably say that the hostility faced by foreigners in the South is nothing compared to that experience in the North.

The further North you go, the less hostility you face. When i was at Liverpool University, the atmosphere was welcoming, but in London you can sense the hostility of the atmosphere in your body.

Needless to mention the police state,
the infringement of ones civil liberty,

The millions of CCTV,

The internment policy of the British Government.
The locking up of people like Palestinian Abu Rideh and refusing them the right of leaving the country to the point of him attempting suicide on 3 occassions,

Use of Crazy and illegal control orders which have been condemn by the courts for its unconstitutionality, . Keeping people in jail indefinitely without trial or letting them know the reason for which they have been held.

Their constant take about immigrant taking all the social housing, when facts show they occupy only 3-5 percent.

The integrity of our Border that they always talk about.

Their refusal to remove data of people not convicted of any crime, despite being instructed to do so by the European courts.

I certainly would not have left the UK , after 11 years, and having secured a permanent resident status and qualifying for citizenship two years ago, and come here at the mercy of those incompetent individuals at the DOJ, if things were Perfect in the UK.


All of these shows their complete lack of basic human empathy and common decency. I found it exceptionally hilarious that one would argue my assessment of the British.

I can go on forever, but i will rather not.

You might need to consider some "Eye Opener" books, and get informed.


Below are the opinion polls i mentioned earlier.

I apologise for not sending them earlier, as i had to drop my friend off at the Airport.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1993597.stm

http://www.democracymovementsurrey.co.u ... watch.html

[Obie]

I have to say I read through the post and it almost made me laugh ....Obie what you think of the UK I think of Italy.....ITALY where it is now a crime if your an illegal immigrant? punishable with 5 years in prison (where they think they are going to put all the illegals presently in the country I don't know?)

You can not even go to a hospital if you have no documents? A women actually died a couple of weeks ago because she was afraid to go to the hospital?
Here the Pope calls for there to be an amnesty (But only for domestic helps? As if the other poor illegal workers don't count?) and the Government actually approve it? Even though they just made being an Overstayer/illegal a crime?

Here in Italy the average time for renewing your residence card is about a year?

So we always think one place is worse than the other....I have to say the more I go home to Ireland (a nation of immigrants) the more I see and hear dearly beloved comments and derogatory remarks

ciaramc the situation in Italy is truly disheartening. I agree with you fully and it depresses me daily.

Sooner or later, It will lead to a complete state of chaos. They have thousands of mafia on whom those resource could be better spent.However they have taken the populist move of jailing asylum seekers, and returning them, without even ascertaining whether or not they meet the criteria under the refugee convention.

The UK has a defacto system of jailing asylum seekers as well, or putting them in prison like facilities. There is a mandatory prison term in place for people who make it to the UK without passport at present.

These people have demonstrated by their actions, that skin color-an accident at birth, is a much more important factor to them, than basic human empathy and solidarity to mankind.

[ciaramc]

I just want to state a point....my friend moved recently to the UK with her non-EU spouse from an African country and he loves it? After pending 10 years in Italy he feels it is a breath of fresh air.

So don't think you can blame a whole courty for a few idiots in Government/or on the streets for that matter?

[Obie]

Ciaramc , what i stated in my previous posts is certainly beyond few idiots on the streets, or Government for that matter.

It is much bigger than that.

I have experience with some of my Irish locals, who acts hostile to me when they hear me speak in Southern British Accent.

As a matter of principal, i don't use those dregs as an indication of the general Irish population.

By any yardstick, my assessment is accurate and reflective of the situation on the ground.

I believe in saying what is right and accurate. There is no malicious agenda in my comments.

It will be easier to say otherwise, but this will be against my convictions.