Rights of d spouse of d family member of EU national?

[kazy]

I got a stamp 4 eufam dependant on my older brother who is a british citizen living and working in Ireland for the past 4 and half years. My question is can I marry my girl friend who is a non EEA national from Nigeria despite the fact that I'm dependant on someone and secondly if this is possible how do I go about it.

Many Thanks

[Ben]

You ask a very interesting question. What is the right of residence of the spouse of the family member of an EU national.

No explicit provision is made under EU nor Irish law.

However, you should familiarise yourself with the categories of people who have the right of residence. See if your future spouse falls under any of them.

Definitions

For the purposes of this Directive:

1) "Union citizen" means any person having the nationality of a Member State;

2) "Family member" means:
(a) the spouse;
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted a registered partnership, on the
basis of the legislation of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member State
treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the
conditions laid down in the relevant legislation of the host Member State;
(c) the direct descendants who are under the age of 21 or are dependants and those of the
spouse or partner as defined in point (b);
(d) the dependent direct relatives in the ascending line and those of the spouse or partner as
defined in point (b);

Beneficiaries

1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other
than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2
who accompany or join them.

2. Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have
in their own right, the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate
entry and residence for the following persons:
(a) any other family members, irrespective of their nationality, not falling under the definition in
point 2 of Article 2 who, in the country from which they have come, are dependants or
members of the household of the Union citizen having the primary right of residence, or
where serious health grounds strictly require the personal care of the family member by the
Union citizen;
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.
The host Member State shall undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances and
shall justify any denial of entry or residence to these people.

[Ben]

No explicit provision is made under EU nor Irish law.

..but I have an inkling she may be granted Stamp 3 by the DoJ.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I have tried to break it down a little bit at http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/04 ... ficiaries/

[kazy]

........................hmm Still not clear!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Ask these people http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/

[Ben]

........................hmm Still not clear!

It's actually very simple. Either a person has the right of residence or they do not.

Ask yourself, is your future wife a person described in either Article 2(2) or Article 3(2) of the Directive (see quoted text in my previous post).

[Ben]

Ask these people http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/

Good idea.

In case it turns out that kazy's wife-to-be is not a person described in either Article 2(2) or Article 3(2) of the Directive - and I suspect she may not be - the Directive does not provide for facilitation of her residence.

Since this question has cropped up before, and I've been wanting to know myself for some time actually, I've asked a hypothetical question via the Citizens Signpost Service, like Directive suggested. Be interesting to see what they say!

James (a non-EEA national) is the family member of Steve (an EEA national). They are both resident (and Steve is working) in a Member State other than the one Steve is a national of. James is in possession of a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" issued by the host Member State. James would like to marry Susan, a non-EEA national who is currently resident in a non-EEA State.

What right of residence will Susan have in the host Member State, as the spouse of a family member of a Union citizen?

[agniukas]

i would guess that the non EU spouse (Susan as per example) would get stamp 3 as a dependant. because being a dependant of EU national and having stamp 4 EU FAM does not make that person EU national as well. therefore, he cannot transfer his rights/entitlements to his spouse.
another example would be with refugees. if soemone is a refugee, they can bring their dependants under family reunification. family members of a refugee would also get stamp 4. however, they themselves inherited the stamp 4 from the actual refugee and cannot transfer that to their non EU spouse. thefore, the actual refugee has stamp 4 and all his dependants get stamp 4 as well. the dependants get stamp 4, however, any person their marry/bring to the country is not entitled to stamp 4 anymore, just stamp 3 as a dependant of a person who came under family reunification. i hope i made that clear.

[Hope4Best@]

Hello All.

Can any one help me please i am going to become irish citizen soon through Naturalisation my question is my sister son is here in ireland as a student am supporting him is it possible to change his status from student to stamp 4 when i became irish citizen i am non EU national please do help me thank you all.

Regards.
H4B.

[Ben]

Since this question has cropped up before, and I've been wanting to know myself for some time actually, I've asked a hypothetical question via the Citizens Signpost Service, like Directive suggested. Be interesting to see what they say!

James (a non-EEA national) is the family member of Steve (an EEA national). They are both resident (and Steve is working) in a Member State other than the one Steve is a national of. James is in possession of a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" issued by the host Member State. James would like to marry Susan, a non-EEA national who is currently resident in a non-EEA State.

What right of residence will Susan have in the host Member State, as the spouse of a family member of a Union citizen?

I received a response asking me for more specific details. So I resubmitted the query as follows:

James (a Nigerian national) is the family member of Steve (a United Kingdom national). They are both resident (and Steve is working) in Ireland. James is in possession of a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" described in Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, issued by Ireland. James would like to marry Susan, a Nigerian national who is currently resident in Nigeria.

What right of residence will Susan have in Ireland, as the spouse of a family member of a Union citizen?

Thank you.

Reply received today:

Thank you for your enquiry.

I have read the details of your enquiry.

I wish to refer you to Directive 2004/38. The Directive applies to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members who accompany or join them (Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC). A Family Member (i.e. spouse, child, dependant relative, other family member requiring the personal care of the EU citizen on health grounds, member of the household of the EU citizen, partner etc) who is not a national of an EU Member State must apply for a Residence Card which will confirm that he/she is a family member of an EU citizen residing in Ireland. I understand that James is in possession of the residence card.

In order to have a complete picture it would be beneficial to know the status of James with regard to the link with the EU national Steve. It would be useful to know the nature of the family relationship - brother in law, brother, son etc

Under the Directive, there is a distinction to be made between the rights of for example the non-eu spouse of an eu national and the non-eu brother of the non-eu spouse of an eu national. For example a family member being a direct relative in the ascending line or descending line could have an automatic right depending on the dependency situation which I explain below.

Article 2 (2) of the 2004 Directive provides that:

"Family member" means:

(a) the spouse;

(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted a registered partnership, on the basis of the legislation of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the conditions laid down in the relevant legislation of the host Member State;

(c) the direct descendants who are under the age of 21 or are dependants and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);

(d) the dependent direct relatives in the ascending line and those of the spouse or partner as defined in point (b);â€

[agniukas]

so what was the answer?

[kazy]

I will love to thank everyoneone that has contributed one way or the other, I'm clear about my spouse getting a stamp 3 but what am not clear about is the response from Solvit................I really didnt get that, can some please break it down

Many Thanks