slightly off topic: Driving License in Belgium

[ca.funke]

Hi all,

my wife from Lebanon held a Lebanese driving license before moving to Europe.

In Ireland, Germany and Switzerland (these are the countries I know of) she cannot change her driving license into a European one, she would have to pass the whole test from zero.

In Belgium, however, she was allowed to change her Driving License into a Belgian one. (Which after a possible further move is of course interchangable / the change is not necessary in the EU)

We nearly missed this opportunity during our short residence there, as we assumed that this would not be possible.

The newly issued Belgian DL costed an administration fee of EUR 26.00

They do keep the original of the previous license. No clue what they will do with it...

Regards,
Christian

[ejw4h9]

Well done saving on the cost and time of having to take a course all over again. I believe Germany had reciprocal agreements with some countries for awhile, but that may have changed. Austria allows some countries the same exchange. In Austria, they send your old license back to the country/state that issued it...though I'm not sure what they will do with it either.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

We nearly missed this opportunity during our short residence there, as we assumed that this would not be possible.

I should point out that you will again be resident in Belgium when you next visit there with your wife. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/06 ... -question/

[ca.funke]

...I should point out that you will again be resident in Belgium when you next visit there with your wife...

of course you're right, directive, should have said that myself.

However, I guess you're only resident for the purpose of 2004/38/EC, hence for the freedom of movement.

I guess this still does not allow you to go to _somewhere in the EU_, apply for a driving-license, and leave again. My gutfeeling tells me that totally different rules apply for this purpose. (After all it is not really the right forum for this, just felt it might come in handy for someone...)

[ejw4h9]

Sorry to jump in on this, but out of curiosity, does that mean that you would be bound by national law if you were to move back to Belgium and not by EU law (i.e. right of free movement)?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I guess you're only resident for the purpose of 2004/38/EC, hence for the freedom of movement.

I am not sure if I understand what you are thinking of – freedom of movement for it’s own sake? For me it is a very practical thing. It entails being able to be resident – to work, rent, buy, play, vote, drive, go to school, use the swimming pool.

I guess this still does not allow you to go to _somewhere in the EU_, apply for a driving-license, and leave again. My gutfeeling tells me that totally different rules apply for this purpose.

I do not think so. There may be rules for eligibility for a driver’s license in a given location, like age or certain amount of driving experience. But if you are resident, you are resident. Just like the old man who has lived there for the last 80 years.

Part of the point of free movement law in the EU is to reverse the situation in which you are only considered a Good (fill in the member state) if you were born there. If you are an EU citizen (or family member), you get equal treatment...

[ca.funke]

...Part of the point of free movement law in the EU is to reverse the situation in which you are only considered a Good (fill in the member state) if you were born there. If you are an EU citizen (or family member), you get equal treatment...

So if I feel like getting a (fill in the member state) driving license, I can fly there, check into a youth-hostel, apply for the DL (after all I'm "resident"), and the next day fly back and live happily ever after with my (fill in the member state) DL in (fill in the member state)?

Not that I'd need it, but it sounds strange.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Lets say you go to Poland and European or city elections are coming up. Can you vote in them if you have been in Poland for a week or for two months? Is that any different than if you have been living in Poland for more than 3 years?

The answer is probably yes you can vote, and it does not matter if you have been there for 2 months or for 3 years or for a week.

In all cases you have to be legally resident. It is a bit harder to satisfy that condition if you stay for longer than 90 days, but it can be done!

[eldane]

Unfortunately you have got it wrong.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 060:EN:PDF

Most interesting is article 11 and 12 in said directive. And most profound this "For the purpose of this Directive, ‘normal residence’ means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties..""

Various provisions concerning the exchange, the withdrawal, the replacement and the recognition of driving licences

1. Where the holder of a valid national driving licence issued by a Member State has taken up normal residence in another Member State, he may request that his driving licence be exchanged for an equivalent licence. It shall be for the Member State effecting the exchange to check for which category the licence submitted is in fact still valid.

2. Subject to observance of the principle of territoriality of criminal and police laws, the Member State of normal residence may apply its national provisions on the restriction, suspension, withdrawal or cancellation of the right to drive to the holder of a driving licence issued by another Member State and, if necessary, exchange the licence for that purpose.

3. The Member State effecting the exchange shall return the old licence to the authorities of the Member State which issued it and give the reasons for doing so.

4. A Member State shall refuse to issue a driving licence to an applicant whose driving licence is restricted, suspended or withdrawn in another Member State.
A Member State shall refuse to recognise the validity of any driving licence issued by another Member State to a person whose driving licence is restricted, suspended or withdrawn in the former State's territory.
A Member State may also refuse to issue a driving licence to an applicant whose licence is cancelled in another Member State.

5. A replacement for a driving licence which has, for example, been lost or stolen may only be obtained from the competent authorities of the Member State in which the holder has his normal residence; those authorities shall provide the replacement on the basis of the information in their possession´or, where appropriate, proof from the competent authorities of the Member State which issued the original licence.

6. Where a Member State exchanges a driving licence issued by a third country for a Community model driving licence, such exchange shall be recorded on the Community model driving licence as shall any subsequent renewal or replacement.
Such an exchange may occur only if the licence issued by the third country has been surrendered to the competent authorities of the Member State making the exchange. If the holder of this licence transfers his normal residence to another Member State, the latter need not apply the principle of mutual recognition set out in Article 2.

Normal residence

For the purpose of this Directive, ‘normal residence’ means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties, because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.
However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly.
This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.