Citizenship timeline tracker.

nanette · Post by **nanette** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:48 pm

They cannot continue to hide the fact that we are not stupid.

What is clear is that Outside Agencies checks are done within INIS.
They've decided to put it on hold for whatever reasons...Waiting and unecessary rotations...

Everyone that have waited more than 23 months as the minister said it should approximately take should contact them in writing.

I would also recommend writing to the minister himself about this 23 months approximation and politely question his judgment on the matter.

Sometimes, the people below are not following the minister guidance and doing what they want and so if you write to the minister himself or the immigration director it will start to raise an alarm....especially if you still hold a job in this country.

You need to be polite and tell them what you've been doing in Ireland and that you refuse to be treated like this....in a polite manner. Raise the bar high when you write this letter.

Put the minister and the INIS director in your shoe with your writing and see if they appreciate to be treated like this.

I am waiting for my 23 months to come around, I will certainly write to the minister and INIS director.

I would recommend this approach to those of 2005/2006 still waiting and start by writing to the INIS director using registered post.
if you don't get an answer in the next 2 weeks, write to the minister with the copy of the letter you sent to the INIS director.

In your letter to the minister, if you don't get an answer from minister, start by mentionning that you never got a response from INIS even when using registered post while you believe, the minister is doing everything posible to improve the services of his department (this will force him to act because it will bad on him).

If you don't get an answer from the minister himself within 2 weeks, write to the prime minister with copies of the letters you sent to from INIS directory and minister himself.

In your letter to the PRIME minister, if you don't an answer from the justice minister, start by mentionning that you never got a response from DOJ even when using registered post while you believe, the prime minister is doing everything posible to improve the services of his government (this will force him to act because it will bad on him).

At the end of the day, if 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 people do this, someone will have to say "hold on, these are actually people paying levies and taxes right now and right here in this country"...and if we don't get feedback, it will just look bad on the INIS director, the minister of Justice and the prime minister himself.

NOTE:
Ensure that you put it clear that the message of waiting outside agencies is not acceptable. Make comparative with your job that this lack of communication does not warrant success. It has to be shown that if we all take this attitude of waiting for outside agencies type of answers, the country will be at his knees. This must be shown in your letter but in a very intelligent and polite way.

If none of these guys respond, we need to write to the EU parlament, someone is responsible of these issues (the unwarranted delays).

The last straw. This is it!

Nana.

tom4 · Post by **tom4** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:43 pm

9jeirean wrote:I don't quite get the relevance of your point about accent. Not sure if you read the dialogue I posted in my preceeding post. It's was obvious she clearly understood my questions and she did not for once during our very brief conversation apear not to.

Are you saying having a Tipperrary accent is now part of the criteria for good clients service at INIS? 'cause if tha't the case I may borrow your expertise in that area to make future calls on my behalf

Are you upset with me? That wasn't my intention.
Ok, my point was that they may treat people differently depending on where they perceive them to be from (i.e. beloved), I have seen this personally on a number of occasions in different situations. I read your dialogue and I agree that you both appear to have understood each other perfectly, and that she was very rude. I am not claiming to be an expert at calling them, however they have never been that rude to me - hence my wondering why they are very rude to some and reasonably polite to others. Sideshowsue, for example, is a US citizen and very possibly has a US accent, she called the other day and even got told the date it was sent to the minister. Things weren't so "confidential" in that case. Tipp accent may well help, however I don't have one...yet.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:19 pm

tom4 wrote:
9jeirean wrote:I don't quite get the relevance of your point about accent. Not sure if you read the dialogue I posted in my preceeding post. It's was obvious she clearly understood my questions and she did not for once during our very brief conversation apear not to.

Are you saying having a Tipperrary accent is now part of the criteria for good clients service at INIS? 'cause if tha't the case I may borrow your expertise in that area to make future calls on my behalf
Are you upset with me? That wasn't my intention.
Ok, my point was that they may treat people differently depending on where they perceive them to be from (i.e. beloved), I have seen this personally on a number of occasions in different situations. I read your dialogue and I agree that you both appear to have understood each other perfectly, and that she was very rude. I am not claiming to be an expert at calling them, however they have never been that rude to me - hence my wondering why they are very rude to some and reasonably polite to others. Sideshowsue, for example, is a US citizen and very possibly has a US accent, she called the other day and even got told the date it was sent to the minister. Things weren't so "confidential" in that case. Tipp accent may well help, however I don't have one...yet.

Not at all mate. Just didn't think the accent angle was relevant to the context. I have also called on a few occasions in the past and had not recieved that kind of rash treatment. She was prob'ly having a bad day or just wasnt up to the job. It kind of empahsise what we already know about INIS and lthe ack of standard operating procedures re client services.

In any case, just so I don't leave anything for chance, I have started working on my Tipp accent too and judging by my progress so far, it looks like I won't be waiting on INIS for that long. Wanna race me?....

Godluck mate

sideshowsue · Post by **sideshowsue** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:20 pm

tom4 wrote:
9jeirean wrote:I don't quite get the relevance of your point about accent. Not sure if you read the dialogue I posted in my preceeding post. It's was obvious she clearly understood my questions and she did not for once during our very brief conversation apear not to.

Are you saying having a Tipperrary accent is now part of the criteria for good clients service at INIS? 'cause if tha't the case I may borrow your expertise in that area to make future calls on my behalf
Are you upset with me? That wasn't my intention.
Ok, my point was that they may treat people differently depending on where they perceive them to be from (i.e. beloved), I have seen this personally on a number of occasions in different situations. I read your dialogue and I agree that you both appear to have understood each other perfectly, and that she was very rude. I am not claiming to be an expert at calling them, however they have never been that rude to me - hence my wondering why they are very rude to some and reasonably polite to others. Sideshowsue, for example, is a US citizen and very possibly has a US accent, she called the other day and even got told the date it was sent to the minister. Things weren't so "confidential" in that case. Tipp accent may well help, however I don't have one...yet.

I reckon that this has quite a bit to do with the problem. I only started ringing INIS in March 2009--up till then, I was lurking on this forum in order to get an idea how other people's applications were progressing. In March, though, since it had been over 6 months since I had sent in the additional documents that had been requested, I was wondering whether something was wrong or perhaps something was missing from my file.

Since then, I have phoned once about every 4 - 6 weeks to enquire about the status of my application. So in total, I must have phoned the helpline about 5 or 6 times, and of these times, I've only had one person who was a bit short and stroppy with me. Then again, it was towards the end of the shift and she had probably spent the last 2 hours dealing with annoyed applicants. In this respect, I could understand why she would be frustrated, but she was never impolite--and most certainly not like shrew of a woman 9jeirean spoke to today.

It is totally unacceptable that they are rude to applicants and even refuse to provide information to one applicant that they seem willing to share with another. That said, I don't know how this could be corrected or even addressed, given their lamentable service record with the failure to process applications in a timely manner. Lest we all forget, there are still applications pending from 2005. It boggles the mind.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:22 pm

Deleted. Double posting.

agniukas · Post by **agniukas** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:26 pm

Re helpline, I guess it depends on what person picks up the phone at the other end... some may be more supportive and compationate, some less. or maybe they really had a direction from the top not to disclose that kind of information any more.
anyway, at this stage everyone knows what the outside agencies are and that they take time, a lot of time. all that due to huge amounts of requests from various sections, not just naturalisation. chances are that EU treaty rights, LTR, even repatriation and other sections use the same outside agencies, therefore the workload there should be huge. and with the cutbacks and unpaid leave, early retirement, and summer holidays on top, there is no extra staff to be had.
Ireland is a very small country with small population and i dont think it's fair to compare it with Australia, canada, US or any other large country for that matter.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:29 pm

agniukas wrote:Re helpline, I guess it depends on what person picks up the phone at the other end... some may be more supportive and compationate, some less. or maybe they really had a direction from the top not to disclose that kind of information any more.
anyway, at this stage everyone knows what the outside agencies are and that they take time, a lot of time. all that due to huge amounts of requests from various sections, not just naturalisation. chances are that EU treaty rights, LTR, even repatriation and other sections use the same outside agencies, therefore the workload there should be huge. and with the cutbacks and unpaid leave, early retirement, and summer holidays on top, there is no extra staff to be had.
Ireland is a very small country with small population and i dont think it's fair to compare it with Australia, canada, US or any other large country for that matter.

Not sure I completely agree with you that the "smallness" of Ireland justifies the current situation. I think a fair assessment would be the one that judges each country based on the proportionate amount of application per resources against the respective turn around time in each country.

See here for how each of the above countries fairs: http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/press_detail.php?id=93

If we go by the above stat. Ireland is still performing woefully.

I however I agree with you re potential clogginging of the vetting system due to duplication of requests from LTR, citizenship and EU treaty sections. I don't lay claim to be an expert on process management but you would think that the INIS would have introduced a system that integrates the vetting systems for all forms of long term residency and naturalisation prcesses and remove the current "silo" arrangement that is causing this ridiculous delay.

tom4 · Post by **tom4** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:34 pm

Yeah... what he said (9jeirean).
Except that of course the "23 months" in ireland's entry is just bulls hit.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:52 pm

Not sure how many also picked this up from the link above:

1. The number of naturalisation applications received in Ireland, number approved and number refused for the years 1999 to 2009 was provided in response to DÃ¡il question number 155.

Note that this info is not published as this is considered "previledged information" only for the consumtion of the minister

See how other countries make their respective info available on their website

2. Figures for the UK can be found on the Home Office Statistical Bulletin 05/08 - http://www.parliament.uk/deposits/depos ... 9-0623.pdf

3. The figures for Canada can be found in the annual report of the Citizenship Commission - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/ ... t-2007.asp

4. The figures for Australia can be found in the Department of Immigration and Citizenshipâ€™s annual report for 2007-08 - http://www.immi.gov.au/about/reports/an ... utputs.pdf

Speaks volume.

crown · Post by **crown** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:27 pm

tom4 wrote:
9jeirean wrote:I don't quite get the relevance of your point about accent. Not sure if you read the dialogue I posted in my preceeding post. It's was obvious she clearly understood my questions and she did not for once during our very brief conversation apear not to.

Are you saying having a Tipperrary accent is now part of the criteria for good clients service at INIS? 'cause if tha't the case I may borrow your expertise in that area to make future calls on my behalf
Are you upset with me? That wasn't my intention.
Ok, my point was that they may treat people differently depending on where they perceive them to be from (i.e. beloved), I have seen this personally on a number of occasions in different situations. I read your dialogue and I agree that you both appear to have understood each other perfectly, and that she was very rude. I am not claiming to be an expert at calling them, however they have never been that rude to me - hence my wondering why they are very rude to some and reasonably polite to others. Sideshowsue, for example, is a US citizen and very possibly has a US accent, she called the other day and even got told the date it was sent to the minister. Things weren't so "confidential" in that case. Tipp accent may well help, however I don't have one...yet. :wink:

Tom is quite right. beloved has grades. If you sound black African or Asian you might be on a lower grade than if you had been American, white African and on on. Apologies if anyone is offended but that is the Irish society for you
Crown

jhbmike · Post by **jhbmike** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:51 pm

crown wrote:
tom4 wrote:
9jeirean wrote:I don't quite get the relevance of your point about accent. Not sure if you read the dialogue I posted in my preceeding post. It's was obvious she clearly understood my questions and she did not for once during our very brief conversation apear not to.

Are you saying having a Tipperrary accent is now part of the criteria for good clients service at INIS? 'cause if tha't the case I may borrow your expertise in that area to make future calls on my behalf
Are you upset with me? That wasn't my intention.
Ok, my point was that they may treat people differently depending on where they perceive them to be from (i.e. beloved), I have seen this personally on a number of occasions in different situations. I read your dialogue and I agree that you both appear to have understood each other perfectly, and that she was very rude. I am not claiming to be an expert at calling them, however they have never been that rude to me - hence my wondering why they are very rude to some and reasonably polite to others. Sideshowsue, for example, is a US citizen and very possibly has a US accent, she called the other day and even got told the date it was sent to the minister. Things weren't so "confidential" in that case. Tipp accent may well help, however I don't have one...yet.
Tom is quite right. beloved has grades. If you sound black African or Asian you might be on a lower grade than if you had been American, white African and on on. Apologies if anyone is offended but that is the Irish society for you
Crown

I wrote out a long reply and then deleted it all( dont wanna get off topic), We all know the facts about this, its even been exposed on Prime Time( beloved that is, not the immigration service). Sad i know, but undeniably true!!!!!!!!!!!!

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:28 pm

Ireland is a small country so they have smaller amount of applications as well a fraction of US,Canada,Australia,UK applications.

If they dont want to give out Passports easily to applicants they should tell them the truth.
It is a kind of torture. 23 months is not true, they should say 3 to 4 years processing... so applicants doesnt have to wait and wait in vain. 8 years of your life waiting is a lot of time isnt it?
Its just to slow. I think they have to do something about it.
or they just dont care or dont want people to stay here? I dont know...
I dont really understand whats their plan about us. maybe they have a certain quota.

americanboy · Post by **americanboy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:11 pm

9jeirean wrote:Anyone got through to the same RUDE lady I spoke with on the INIS "helpline" today:

Me: Can you pls tell me the updte re my application
Rude lady: I am afraid I dont have any info for you.
Me: Last time I checked, I was told you were waiting on outside agencies. Just like to know if things have moved on since then.
Rude Lady: (Raising her voice), No! No!! No!! we dont give out such confidential info ((I could hear her trying to cut me off)
Me: (Quickly interject before she cuts me off) So what can you tell me pls about where my aplication is at this stage
Rude lady: I am afraid we don't do that. They are very confidential information (Cuts me off!)

Well, so much for a "helpline"
sorry for what happened to you. try to take this easy. i have a question for you or any one who reads this. i tried calling today at 10.05 and 11 and 11 15, all the time the phone line was busy. whats the best time to ring and how long do i wait or any other tricks to get through. i really need to talk to them.
thanks in advance

godspower · Post by **godspower** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:02 pm

americanboy wrote:
9jeirean wrote:Anyone got through to the same RUDE lady I spoke with on the INIS "helpline" today:

Me: Can you pls tell me the updte re my application
Rude lady: I am afraid I dont have any info for you.
Me: Last time I checked, I was told you were waiting on outside agencies. Just like to know if things have moved on since then.
Rude Lady: (Raising her voice), No! No!! No!! we dont give out such confidential info ((I could hear her trying to cut me off)
Me: (Quickly interject before she cuts me off) So what can you tell me pls about where my aplication is at this stage
Rude lady: I am afraid we don't do that. They are very confidential information (Cuts me off!)

Well, so much for a "helpline"
sorry for what happened to you. try to take this easy. i have a question for you or any one who reads this. i tried calling today at 10.05 and 11 and 11 15, all the time the phone line was busy. whats the best time to ring and how long do i wait or any other tricks to get through. i really need to talk to them.
thanks in advance

I called today and spoke to a very nice lady. Though she didn't give me all the info I was hoping to get but she was extremely polite. Guess I was lucky...

room1102 · Post by **room1102** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:36 am

smalltime wrote:Ireland is a small country so they have smaller amount of applications as well a fraction of US,Canada,Australia,UK applications.

If they dont want to give out Passports easily to applicants they should tell them the truth.
It is a kind of torture. 23 months is not true, they should say 3 to 4 years processing... so applicants doesnt have to wait and wait in vain. 8 years of your life waiting is a lot of time isnt it?
Its just to slow. I think they have to do something about it.
or they just dont care or dont want people to stay here? I dont know...
I dont really understand whats their plan about us. maybe they have a certain quota.

I agreed that Ireland is a small country and it will have less resources to deal with immigration. Another point is, immigration is very new in the country so the government do not know how to deal with it.

But they should have said or increase the naturalization qualified time from 5 to 8 years instead of make everyone wait for another 30 months after they submit their application, at least people will know what they are in for.

frustrated13 · Post by **frustrated13** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:00 am

9jeirean wrote:Not sure I completely agree with you that the "smallness" of Ireland justifies the current situation. I think a fair assessment would be the one that judges each country based on the proportionate amount of application per resources against the respective turn around time in each country.

See here for how each of the above countries fairs: http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/press_detail.php?id=93

If we go by the above stat. Ireland is still performing woefully.

IF population size is in any way relevant, then the following shows INIS up as being quite hopeless...

New Zealand (pop. 4 million) citizenship was granted to this many people in each of these years:
2001: 23,535
2002: 19,469
2003: 18,296
2004: 22,142
2005: 25,481
2006: 29,130
2007: 29,905

Waiting time is said to be about 6 months.
Cost NZ$460 (about â‚¬213).

I couldn't find a more recent figure, but I think it illustrates the point beautifully!

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:37 am

Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform

Definition:

Justice - the administering of deserved punishment or reward
Equality- the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability
Law-the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.
Reform-the improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, unsatisfactory, etc.

9jeirean · Post by **9jeirean** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:18 pm

It's funny almost to a point of absurdity when people keep reciting the old mantra: "Ireland is a small country; immigration is new to Ireland, that's why the government is unable to solve the problem" I say bollocks!

Here's a food for thought: If anyone of us here is being paid to do a job and its taking them up to 10 years to get a grip, they'll be fired! So lets cut the crap and face the real issue here: The system is being run by a bunch of incompetent lovey, period.

nettan · Post by **nettan** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:34 pm

I was made redundant 2 weeks ago after working for 7 years non-stop. I know i am entitled to claim my PRSI contribution but do not know if this would affect my application adversely. Please advise ..

frustrated13 · Post by **frustrated13** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:47 pm

9jeirean wrote:It's funny almost to a point of absurdity when people keep reciting the old mantra: "Ireland is a small country; immigration is new to Ireland, that's why the government is unable to solve the problem" I say bollocks!

Quite right! NZ is also a small country, and look at the figures they achieve.
It might be new, but it doesn't take a genius to work out how to deal with it, particularly when demand for naturalisation is predictable 5 years in advance (surge in work permits now = surge in naturalisation applications in 5 years, very simple).
The government doesn't want to solve the problem.
Absolutely sick of this incompetent, dishonest load of idiots!!!

smalltime · Post by **smalltime** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:23 pm

Is there anyone here that recently got a letter asking for documents.
It says in the website processing early 2008

I got letter confirmation february 2008.
Just wondering if its accurate. (make believe)
give me some hope please.

I'll pay any cost
Save me from being confused
Show me what I'm looking for ho ho hoorrrrr
Show me what I'm looking for ho ho horrrrrâ€¦

jhbmike · Post by **jhbmike** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:23 pm

nettan wrote:I was made redundant 2 weeks ago after working for 7 years non-stop. I know i am entitled to claim my PRSI contribution but do not know if this would affect my application adversely. Please advise ..

I would advise you strongly not to do so as it would probably impact negatively on youre application. I know it will be difficult but hopefully youre application is in advanced stages and you will be able to get by till youre approval comes through.
I was made redundant last year and couldnt get a suitable job for seven months and I never claimed job seekers even though I was entitled to do so.In monetary terms this passport has now cost me financially â‚¬5600 in unemployment benefit, about â‚¬150 in tel calls and registered mail to INIS plus hopefully when I get it another â‚¬900 for the priveledge. In total - â‚¬6650. Not to mention my blood pressure has gone sky high dealing with them, plus the aggrivation.
Its up to you however, if an Irish passport is at the top of youre list of priorities, try and get by without claiming.
Good luck I hope it works out for you!

tom4 · Post by **tom4** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:24 pm

smalltime wrote:Is there anyone here that recently got a letter asking for documents.
It says in the website processing early 2008

I got letter confirmation february 2008.
Just wondering if its accurate. (make believe)
give me some hope please.

A friend of mine applied Feb '08 and was asked for more docs about a month ago.

nanette · Post by **nanette** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:24 pm

More than 23 months...

We demand dignity, my monthly taxes are not labelled foreigner's taxes, they are labelled taxes. What a bunch of low life uneducated sick f--ks.

I am not surprised that this country is at knees, the minister of DOJ believes to express progress and success through incompetence...

I want him to resign. He is one the of reasons this country has failed miserably....

What a privilege that is...

This is it !

nana

tom4 · Post by **tom4** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:46 pm

Off topic but...

I have just seen this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Bloody funny and it got me thinking that there's loads of potential for something similar about INIS.

Any of the musicians out there want to have a crack at it?

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