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The are usually no border controls at UK ports for flights or ships arriving from Ireland.ChIrl wrote:My wife would be travelling with me all the time. Mostly, we will be going for short period say a week or two.
benifa wrote:The are usually no border controls at UK ports for flights or ships arriving from Ireland.ChIrl wrote:My wife would be travelling with me all the time. Mostly, we will be going for short period say a week or two.
If, however, you encounter a spot check, presentation of your passports + marriage certificate is sufficient for lawful entry.
There is also a ruling by the EU court against Belgium in favour of Mrax. Which forbids member states from deporting family members of Union Citizen, where evidence of a familial relationship has been supplied.Article 5
4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a
national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel
documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member
State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such
persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary
documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable
period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that
they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.
There's no limbo, you're merely acting as the law permits.ChIrl wrote:..but that would put us in limbo whether or not.
The EU Directive..ChIrl wrote:Any references for this, just to be safe.
UK law..Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 5(4) wrote:4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not
have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain
the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to
corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and
residence.
The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006, Part 2 wrote:Right of admission to the United Kingdom
11.
(4) Before an immigration officer refuses admission to the United Kingdom to a person under
this regulation because the person does not produce on arrival a document mentioned in paragraph
(1) or (2), the immigration officer must give the person every reasonable opportunity to obtain the
document or have it brought to him within a reasonable period of time or to prove by other means
that he is—
(a) an EEA national;
(b) a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him
in the United Kingdom; or
(c) a family member who has retained the right of residence or a person with a permanent
right of residence under regulation 15.
Hi Benifabenifa wrote: The are usually no border controls at UK ports for flights or ships arriving from Ireland.
If, however, you encounter a spot check, presentation of your passports + marriage certificate is sufficient for lawful entry.
A non-EEA national family member of an EEA national, resident in the UK, has submitted the EEA2 form and is awaiting receipt of the Residence Card, can travel to France or Ireland then back to the UK, together with his/her EEA national family member, in possession of both passports and marriage certificate.msmoby_ru wrote:Are you saying that if your EEA FP has expired and your are awaiting a Residency stamp, you could travel to France / IRL with a visa and return to the UK with the passport / Mariage cert / and lots of evidence of legal status..travelling together.
Not required if travelling to Ireland together and in possession of your passports and marriage cert.msmoby_ru wrote:It's just that we were thinking of getting a IRL Visa
What for?msmoby_ru wrote: and then applying at the UK Embassy in Dublin for a renewed EEA FP while we wait for the non EU - dependent of EU Citizen residency stamp.
That's fine but why didn't you apply based on your Irish citizenship? Would have meant less paperwork.msmoby_ru wrote:I hold UK / IRL passports and applied exercising my treaty rights as a UK citizen who has lived and worked out of the UK for six years and was resident in a third party EU country ( Cyprus)
benifa wrote: A non-EEA national family member of an EEA national, resident in the UK, has submitted the EEA2 form and is awaiting receipt of the Residence Card, can travel to France or Ireland then back to the UK, together with his/her EEA national family member, in possession of both passports and marriage certificate.
msmoby_ru wrote:I hold UK / IRL passports and applied exercising my treaty rights as a UK citizen who has lived and worked out of the UK for six years and was resident in a third party EU country ( Cyprus)
??!! I applied at the Cyprus UK High Commission using EEA2 - the paperwork is exactly the same if I apply as a IRL citizen, surely?.. The application form was filled in, vetted and the permits granted in 2 hours.. Applying as the UK citizen means that she CAN - if necessary - change over to the "Leave to remain route" - as residency becomes permanent - quicker - as does route to citizenship.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.benifa wrote:That's fine but why didn't you apply based on your Irish citizenship? Would have meant less paperwork.
Quite the opposite, sadly. Be prepared for a fight and leave plenty of time. You're acting quite lawfully, but often airline staff don't know the rules. Or, get the visa if you choose to. It'd be free anyway.msmoby_ru wrote:You see that's the bit I "worry" about.. Are you saying that there WILL NOT be an issue to get on a plane / boat either end?
They wouldn't want or need to know.msmoby_ru wrote:HOW do the French / Irish know the Residency permit is applied for..?
They're wrong, and if you turn up at the border as a couple, with your passports and marriage cert but without a visa, they still have to let you in. Them's the rules.msmoby_ru wrote:I note they ( FR / UK / IRL ) all STILL say that even if you have residency in the UK / UK EEA FP - a visa is necessary.
You cannot change from the EEA route to the UK route in-country. You had three options to take:msmoby_ru wrote:msmoby_ru wrote:I hold UK / IRL passports and applied exercising my treaty rights as a UK citizen who has lived and worked out of the UK for six years and was resident in a third party EU country ( Cyprus)??!! I applied at the Cyprus UK High Commission using EEA2 - the paperwork is exactly the same if I apply as a IRL citizen, surely?.. The application form was filled in, vetted and the permits granted in 2 hours.. Applying as the UK citizen means that she CAN - if necessary - change over to the "Leave to remain route" - as residency becomes permanent - quicker - as does route to citizenship.. Please correct me if I'm wrong.benifa wrote:That's fine but why didn't you apply based on your Irish citizenship? Would have meant less paperwork.
I completely understand, and I know exactly how you feel.msmoby_ru wrote:Please understand - I'm NOT trying to question your advice.. I need answers - as if I'm being the Devil's advocate, as I'm confident enough, but it is my poor wife that has dealt with Officials that aren't aware of her rights TOO many times...
Incorrect.Obie wrote:However to be realistic, she will be unable to obtain a visa without evidence or a status in the UK, which will make it impossible for her to board a flight to France.
msmoby_ru wrote:An update
Wifey and step-son now have UK "Residence Document" in their non-EU passports..
and YET... France are saying step-son 'needs a visa' and Ireland saying BOTH need a Visa !!
Response from EU Citizen Signpost at my 'querying' this..
>>Thank you for your enquiry.
The situation regarding entry to other Member States by EU citizens and their families is governed by Directive 2004/38. Article 5 of this Directive provides that non-EU family members in possession of a valid residence card should be able to travel to any other Member State in the company of or to join the EU family member, simply on production of a passport and the residence card in lieu of a visa. However, many Member States do not observe this provision and continue to insist on the production of a valid visa to allow the non-EU family member to enter their territory. The European Commission is currently investigating this situation which differs from Member State to Member State, as you have discovered.
Pending the outcome of the investigation, you are advised to obtain a visa where the Embassy of the Member State advises you to do so. This means that your son will require a visa to travel to France and both your son and wife will require visas to travel to Ireland. These visas should, if your wife and son are travelling with or to join you, be granted without delay or charge or formality.
For further information on travelling in the EU, you may find the following webpage to be of interest: http://europa.eu/travel/index_en.htm
You may also find the following guide to Directive 2004/38 to be of assistance: http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf
I trust that this information is of assistance to you.
Yours sincerely,
Citizens Signpost Service. <<