Helpful core information will be appreciated

[Majeztic]

I have been a reader for sometime in this forum,but I havent really found an answer for the questions on my mind.I would be grateful if I could get some answers.Let me explain in detail,

I am a Non-Eu living in Romania,I`m working as a doctor and specialising,I have been looking in Germany to complete my specialisation there,Anyway I found a place and went for an interview ,The german embassy gave me the visa without problems,I got to germany went to the interview and got the job,with the contract from the hospital and many other documents I had to apply for a work permit.I applied last january and I have recieved the work permit just recently,ok I guess everything is understandable until now, 2 months back I got married to a EU citizen.My wife has 2 citizenships (Romanian and German),I married her with her Romanian and now I have the Family residence card ,My questions are:

- After recieving the workpermit ,do I need to go to the embassy and apply for the NATIONAL VISA (i would need to do this in if i had the normal residence card in romania) or can I just go with family residence card?
-My wife is also German,can I also get the german family permit or card when I get there?
-When I applied for the work permit,I stated that I was single ,will this cause me any hassle?
-If a NAtional visa is needed and I just go with the family residence card,what will happen?

My wife will be with me ,she also wonders how it will be,because she is also german and when we leave together in europe and get checked at border points she uses her romanian papers because of me,but in germany will she also have to be with her romanian papers.I am sorry for the long post,but its a little confusing for me and advice would be very helpful.

[Wanderer]

Are you sure she's German? I ask cos Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship, except for with other EU state citizenship, which fits ur situation of course, but as Romania hasn't been an EU state for long she could have lost it so it's worth asking!

[ca.funke]

...I am a Non-Eu living in Romania ... I got married to a EU citizen. My wife has 2 citizenships (Romanian and German)...

Hi Majeztic, welcome to the Forum

Now that you´re married to an EU-citizen (of the old EU15), you can move to Germany without any restrictions. The fact that you got your visa etc... is not important anymore, you may move regardless.

As you are married to a German citizen AND moving to Germany you must keep the following in mind:

There is an EU-regulation (2004/38/EC), which is discussed in detail >>here<<.

This regulation is valid ONLY, if the EU-citizen is living outside his own country (your German wife lives in Romania at present), or returning to his home country.

As a consequence it is of utmost importance to you, that you keep all papers you may possibly have which prove that you and your wife lived together inside the EU but outside of Germany (in Romania).

When you get to Germany, do under no circumstances accept that they deal with you under national legislation (which they may try). You are entitled to be dealt with under 2004/38/EC, and thus your German residence-permit should read "family member of a citizen of the Union" or "Aufenthaltskarte für Familienangehörige eines EU-Bürgers".

I hope this together with the links given answers all your questions.

Good luck and all the best, Christian

After recieving the workpermit ,do I need to go to the embassy and apply for the NATIONAL VISA (i would need to do this in if i had the normal residence card in romania) or can I just go with family residence card?

2004/38/EC superseeds all of this. You can just travel to Germany at any time now (>>even without any visa<<), and set up residence immediately without any further formalities other than registering at the "Einwohnermeldeamt".

My wife is also German,can I also get the german family permit or card when I get there?

Only if you prove that yee lived in another country of the Union before moving to Germany. Keep all papers you may possibly have from Romania.

When I applied for the work permit,I stated that I was single ,will this cause me any hassle?

Again, 2004/38/EC superseeds all of this. You can ignore the visa you got. (Maybe you even should, as this may prompt them to deal with you according to national law, which you must avoid.)

If a NAtional visa is needed and I just go with the family residence card,what will happen?

Visa not needed.

My wife will be with me ,she also wonders how it will be,because she is also german and when we leave together in europe and get checked at border points she uses her romanian papers because of me,but in germany will she also have to be with her romanian papers.I am sorry for the long post,but its a little confusing for me and advice would be very helpful.

As far as I know, Romanians are not allowed to freely settle in Germany. The Germans ask you to reveal "all" nationalities to them anyway, so she should have both passports with her.
At border-checkpoints it´s worthwhile to have your current Romanian residence paper with you (see thread above), but you can also travel the adventurous (the other post) way...

[Majeztic]

Wanderer: Yes she is a 100% German citizen,she got her romanian citizenship a couple of months back,on the basis that she was born in romania and that she has a company plus property here.

Christian:

Thank you very much for your detailed reply,I just want to make clear is that when I went for the interview the 1st time,I went with a schengen visa which is now expired,the staff at the german embassy here emphasized that I cannot work with schengen visa and if i get the contract and work permit I must come and apply for a National visa at the embassy,Thus I dont have any sort of visa with me now,only the family residence card of Romania,and as I understood from you,I can go with Family card without needing to go to the embassy and when I get there ,I can adjust my situation under (2004/38/EC) law.
I would like to ask also ,can I have to 2 family residence card,or will I have to let go of the Romanian one when i get german residence.
About living here,we both have property here as well as work,will i need to translate some doucments into german to avoid hassle e.g work permit,property contracts etc..
I want to sort everything out from now,I will not be in a condtion able to run around from office to office in germany or even come to romania for more papers,I start work on the 1st of july.The only fear I have is when i get to Germany ,they tell me that I can only stay with Romanian family residence card for 3 months and I have to go back to romania and apply for National visa from the embassy.

[ca.funke]

...The only fear I have is when i get to Germany ,they tell me that I can only stay with Romanian family residence card for 3 months and I have to go back to romania and apply for National visa from the embassy.

You have nothing to worry about, as long as you´re dealt with under 2004/38/EC.

Therefore, your wife must have moved from Germany to Romania (this is called excercising treaty rights), and fully lived in Romania for at least a while. (The exact details are ambiguous) In this case more restrictive German national law is not applicable to you, and you can use 2004/38/EC.

With 2004/38/EC it does not matter how you enter the country when you are married, or even how you have entered before you were married. The corresponding court-ruling can be found under "Metock" - this was a Nigerian citizen who was illegal in Ireland when he married a Polish citizen. The Irish authorities wanted to deport him, which was stopped and he is now allowed to live and work in Ireland.

Thus - make sure you´re dealt with under 2004/38/EC - in this case you have absolutely nothing to worry about. You can, together with your wife, move throughout the EU, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, without any formalities. This includes staying indefinetely wherever you have work.

Exception Switzerland (where I happen to live now): You can do the same, but must ask for a visa first if you want to live here permanently. The process is streamlined and very easy.

Whatever you do: 2004/38/EC is what you have to make sure to be dealt with under - then moving should be a breeze.

[Majeztic]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH CHRISTIAN,

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Are you sure she's German? I ask cos Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship, except for with other EU state citizenship

Not exactly correct. You can usually not keep your old citizenship if you naturalize as a German (with the exception of some other EU citizenships), but there are LOTs of Germans who have dual citizenship. For example, a child born in the USA to German parents will have both US and German

[Wanderer]

Are you sure she's German? I ask cos Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship, except for with other EU state citizenship

Not exactly correct. You can usually not keep your old citizenship if you naturalize as a German (with the exception of some other EU citizenships), but there are LOTs of Germans who have dual citizenship. For example, a child born in the USA to German parents will have both US and German

This is what I nabbed from Wiki - not always accurate I know..

Although dual citizenship is restricted under German law, it can be held in limited circumstances:

1. Where a child born to German parents acquires another citizenship at birth (e.g. based on place of birth, or descent from one parent).

2. Where a German citizen acquires a foreign nationality with the permission of the German government

3. Where a naturalized German citizen, or a child born to non-German parents in Germany, obtains permission to keep their foreign nationality

Point One covers ur example but it might be interesting where the OP's missus stands on this, if she took Romanian Citizenship from place of birth looks like she's ok.

But yes, I cede your point....

[ca.funke]

Germany allows dual citizenship, as you say.

Through permission by the German government (="Beibehaltungsgenehmigung").

Or, if it's inside the EU+Switzerland, you don't need explicit permission.

I know and am sure: I was German and later naturalised as Belgian. In 2006 I still needed above permit(="Beibehaltungsgenehmigung"), which I obtained at the time.

Shortly after I turned Belgian the German nationality-law (Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz, StaG) was changed, and the permit is no longer needed for EU+Switzerland, as described above. (I lost EUR 255 through having to apply for this crap )

Info in German here:
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo/de ... sicht.html

[Majeztic]

Just like to give an update,

Christian: As u said they tried so hard to convince me to go through National law,but i stood firm and i got it through the EU. I got the RC in only 5 days for 5 years,But its not a card its something like the old german driving license,Its a small folded paper into 3 parts.Another thing its only written in German. " AUFENTHALTSERLAUBNIS-EU "
The guy at the office said that I would regret taking the EU route and it would of been better for me to take the National route.Anyhow would I be able to travel alone around europe? and If i get controlled will they ask where my wife is?? i hope not because through national law that would be not the case.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Majeztic,

What is your citizenship?

In general you have a RIGHT to free movement when you travel WITH your wife.

I suspect and think I remember, though you should confirm, that you can travel freely in the Schengen region without your wife since you are a resident of one of the Schengen countries.

UK and Ireland may be more difficult, though technically you have an EU law Residence Card.

Did they say WHY they thought going for an EU-law card was something you would regret?

[Majeztic]

I am a Sudanese citizen.They said that i might have problems with the police and borders,because this family resident card is still not well known around.I also have a romanian RC valid also for 5 year and this what i came with to germany.
The thing is ,sometimes I have conferences around europe and I cant take my wife with me.With the national marriage visa i could go all around europe alone.I had 3 types of residence I could of took,eithier 1. National marriage visa 2. EU family member card 3. work visa. I chose the EU family card,

[Majeztic]

nobody has an answer for me???