A quick question or two!

[andy and ann]

You know, I just had a brainwave, which I admit is very unusual! I am thinking of changing our plans and catching a plane straight from Frankfurt to Athens!

This way, we don't have to book flights out of Frankfurt a week after arrival and pray we get the visa in time, we can just get a bus/train into Bulgaria!

It will be a fantastic city for Ann to see, much cheaper than western Europe and some friends from Bulgaria might even be able to come down and spend some time with us!!!

Can anyone see any holes in my plan? Greece is a part of Schengen so there should be no problems at all!

[Obie]

That sounds fantastic and Greece is a Schengen state. However i am unsure whether or not passport checks are carried out at the Greek-Bulgarian border. If there isn't one, you could just drive in and save yourself time and cost of waiting for the Bulgarian Visa. You will not be doing anything overboard in that respect.

Even if there is passport checks, the authority will be in Breech of community law to turn her back.

Once more, i wish you all the best.

[andy and ann]

The plan was that we apply for her Bulgarian visa while we are in Greece. Do you think it might be worth just going straight to Bulgaria? There are passport checks there.

I think it will probably be better to get the visa, that should then help in getting the residence card.

[andy and ann]

Finally we are in Frankfurt. It took over 3 hours in Manila to convince them that Ann should be allowed to go with me. They were demanding a return ticket, I showed them the directives and ended up calling someone in Germany for advice. The person told them that as long as we have sufficient funds/credit card it is fine.

Such a nightmare! Getting through immigration at Heathrow took about a minute! He looked at both of our passports and asked if we were married and off we went!

Greece tomorrow!

[Obie]

Great stuff. I am pleased that you guys finally made it.

I hope no headace at the German Immigration. Good luck with the Greeks tomorrow.

[andy and ann]

It was a rather surly chap at the German passport control (but aren't they all?!) but he just looked at our passports and let us through without any questions. He stamped the passport, but there is only the outline of the stamp! Very disappointed!

The Greek journey was really easy, no problem at all! In fact, it was a surprise to me but there was no passport control upon entering, we were ferried like sheep to baggage reclaim through the schengen door. This makes travel a lot easier! No stamp in passport though

We found the Bulgarian embassy today and submitted the application, they were very nice and helpful. We can call them up on friday to see the status of the application.

So all being well we could be in Bulgaria at the weekend! We have found a nice little hotel here with a nice view of the acropolis. Been a nightmare couple of days here really though, starting off with a taxi driver from hell!

We can have a nice couple of days sightseeing now though!

Regards.

[andy and ann]

Just a quick update, we collected the visa for Bulgaria this afternoon. Absolutely no problems with it at all. It is a 90 day multiple entry class 'c'. Issued in just 2 days.

I guess that will be all from me for the time being! I will be posting again when I have done a few months of hard-graft

Thanks for all the help so far on our mission, one thing I can tell you is that Ann has had a wonderful time and seen some really excellent things so far!

Regards to all!

[Ben]

Thanks for the updates. Best wishes for everything.

[andy and ann]

Ok a quick update then, didn't have a very successful day today! I am unable to register because I need a contract of employment and it seems that my friend will have a lot of trouble to employ me because there is a law here in Bulgaria that says that a company needs to prove that a Bulgarian cannot do a job that a foreigner is doing. I have an interview sometime next week for a call centre job.

We spoke to them about registering Ann and the woman said that she cannot get a residence card because she is on a tourist visa and that she has never been to the UK. I never expected that answer! So I guess there is a big battle looming for us if ever I manage to get myself registered!

Regards all

[Obie]

Andy that law does not apply to EUropean Citizen. It is unlawful.

The directive prohibits discrimination against EU national.

Article 24
Equal treatment
1. Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly
provided for in the Treaty and secondary law, all Union citizens
residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the
host Member State shall enjoy equal treatment with the
nationals of that Member State within the scope of the Treaty.
The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members
who are not nationals of a Member State and who have the
right of residence or permanent residence.

Therefore this rule cannot apply to union citizens. It is only applicable to members outside the Europeanean community. Bulgarian laws says Bulgarian, but it is intended to cover Union Citizens too.

[andy and ann]

Oh fantastic thankyou Obie! That makes it much easier!

I didn't realise it, but Ann had to register at the police within 48 hours of arriving here, so that caused us a lot of problems for these last couple of days. We managed to get her registered in the end though and avoid the fine!

Silly question time! This quote from article 8 no.3 of the directive:

a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment,

So simply a letter from an employer stating that they are going to employ me will suffice you think?

Thankyou once again!

[Ben]

Obie is correct - EU citizens have the same rights as Bulgarian citizens, with regards to the employment market. Discrimination is prohibited. "Bulgarian cannot do a job that a foreigner is doing" should read "Bulgarian / EEA national cannot do a job that a foreigner is doing".

We spoke to them about registering Ann and the woman said that she cannot get a residence card because she is on a tourist visa and that she has never been to the UK.

Tripe. Ask them to refer to Directive 2004/38/EC and Metock.

I didn't realise it, but Ann had to register at the police within 48 hours of arriving here, so that caused us a lot of problems for these last couple of days. We managed to get her registered in the end though and avoid the fine!

More tripe. Both you and Ann have the right to reside in Bulgaria for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.

Right of residence for up to three months
1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a
period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to
hold a valid identity card or passport.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid
passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen.

I'd like to see them trying to fine you, when they're the ones acting unlawfully.

Silly question time! This quote from article 8 no.3 of the directive:

a confirmation of engagement from the employer or a certificate of employment,

So simply a letter from an employer stating that they are going to employ me will suffice you think?

Yes, or a wage slip.

But remember, you have three months before any of this has to be submitted, in respect of both you and Ann.

[andy and ann]

Thankyou very much Benifa!

Yes, one thing I do know is that I have 3 months in which to do this but I want to get started with it right away since there are going to be many problems!

Thankyou again.

[andy and ann]

I will go back next week with an English friend who speaks Bulgarian perfectly and inform them they have been acting illegally with regard to the registration. If they refuse to listen I will report them to Solvit. Hopefully if I prove this situation is illegal I will get more help with the rest of it. I won't be holding my breath though as the people working in these places are truly awful!

[Wanderer]

I will go back next week with an English friend who speaks Bulgarian perfectly and inform them they have been acting illegally with regard to the registration. If they refuse to listen I will report them to Solvit. Hopefully if I prove this situation is illegal I will get more help with the rest of it. I won't be holding my breath though as the people working in these places are truly awful!

I don;t know why they let them in - 70 years of Soviet-style corruption doesn't go away easily...

[andy and ann]

You know, I have been coming to Bulgaria for many years, and although I am pleased that they were allowed in (for the sake of friends here) I never understood why! The courruption and beauracracy here borders on the insane!

A long time ago in this thread you wrote me that this route won't be easy, as nobody knows the law. You certainly were right there! But we have got this far, and all we need now is my registration and the residence card for Ann! We are very nearly there.

The family permit is another matter though

[Obie]

I don;t know why they let them in - 70 years of Soviet-style corruption doesn't go away easily...

That is not a nice thing to say, to be fair to Bulgaria, they have moved on a lot since the soviet days. They still have a long way to go, but they are making a huge process. These habits don't go away in a day.

Andy, the A2 countries (Bulgaria and Romania) are not very familiar with the directive and what it entails. You have to bring it to their attention.

It will not be easy, but i suspect you will prevail in the end. You have crossed nearly 80% of the hurdles, the rest will not be as challenging.

[Ben]

Have a look at this:
http://eu.mvr.bg/en/How_change/eucitizens.htm

Let's zoom in:

eucitizens.htm

Nothing on that page relates to EU citizens. In fact, much of it attempts to unlawfully deprive EU citizens of their rights of free movement, as citizens of the Union.

Note that Bulgaria joined the EU on 1st January 2007. That page was "Updated on at Thursday, June 14, 2007". Obviously, they didn't do their homework when updating - nor have they since.

[Ben]

Has anyone been able to find Bulgaria's implementation of Directive 2004/38/EC online?

I may have found it.. but it's on the website of the Royal Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs?

http://www.ambsofia.um.dk/NR/rdonlyres/ ... RINGBG.doc

[andy and ann]

Thank you ever so much once again for all of the incredibly informative advice.

I returned to the police station today to discuss the matter with someone, unfortunately the supervisor is only available one hour a week which is on Thursday! 11-12! Amazing.

Afterwards I went to the office of the European Section of Ministry of Interior - from the link from Benifa. I spoke to a nice lady on the phone and have a meeting with her tomorrow morning at 10am. She was at the hospital when we spoke and unable to meet today. I don't know if she will actually be able to help me, but if I knock on enough doors I might be able to find someone to help me eventually. Rather this than moving down the Solvit route!

Thanks again for all the valuable advice. I will keep you informed!

[andy and ann]

Success!!!

We had a meeting with two women at the immigration police station today in Sofia. I explained the situation and one of the women was somewhat surprised when I quoted the ECJ ruling of the Metock case! She took our documents away and came back a few minutes later to tell us that Ann will [/b]get[/b]her residence card!

We were there maybe 20 minutes in total. I did quote article 6 from the directive and said that we did not have to register Ann but she really wasn't agreeing to this. I was only telling her for her information but she wasn't listening. Since most people here don't know the law it is probably better that we have the registration certificate anyway!

I just need to get the job offer sorted out, which is proving elusive but basically so far everything is a complete success!!!

THANK YOU ALL SO VERY, VERY MUCH!!!

[Ben]

Fantastic, well done!

A decision in 20 minutes eh? That knocks spots off some other Member States, who can take in excess of the legally allowed 6 months!

Great news.

[andy and ann]

OK here we go again!

After they acknowledged that they would give a residence card they told us they needed the marriage docs translated. We duly complied with this. We submitted the application on monday.

When we went to get the temporary card they said she could not have it because she only had a tourist visa. I argued with them about this. I spoke to someone again today and then Ann went there.

Now they are saying that they want a certificate coming from the British Embassy saying that they are acknowledging our marriage.

Are they allowed to ask for this?

Thankyou!

[Ben]

Now they are saying that they want a certificate coming from the British Embassy saying that they are acknowledging our marriage.

Are they allowed to ask for this?

Certainly not. Member States are not permitted to impose addition restrictions or conditions other than those laid out in the Directive and relevant case law.

[Obie]

47 Since it considered that an interpretation of Directive 2004/38 was necessary for it to give judgment in the main proceedings, the High Court decided to stay the proceedings and refer the following questions to the Court for a preliminary ruling:

‘(1) Does Directive 2004/38/EC permit a Member State to have a general requirement that a non-EU national spouse of a Union citizen must have been lawfully resident in another Member State prior to coming to the host Member State in order that he or she be entitled to benefit from the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC?

(2) Does Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC include within its scope of application a non-EU national who is:

– a spouse of a Union citizen who resides in the host Member State and satisfies a condition in Article 7(1)(a), (b) or (c) and

– is then residing in the host Member State with the Union citizen as his/her spouse

irrespective of when or where their marriage took place or when or how the non-EU national entered the host Member State?

98 Third, neither Article 3(1) nor any other provision of Directive 2004/38 contains requirements as to the place where the marriage of the Union citizen and the national of a non-member country is solemnised.

Therefore your marriage should have nothing to do with the British authorities, neither do you have to seek their approval for it to be valid

To be honest i have never heard of the existence of this certificate after marriage. The British authority normally issue Certificate of non-Impediment prior to marriage, but certainly not after.

These people don't know what they are talking about.