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It's a residence card ('Aufenthaltskarte') what you want but it is not a carte blanche for visa free travel. They would have to stay at least six months per year with you.JuniorG wrote:Now I would like to apply for Residence Permits for them so that they can stay here with me (or at least so that they have the option to go back home and come back whenever they want without having to apply for visas every time!)
I have tried looking (my German is not very good) but haven't found anything useful.The city hall may have a web page with details
Yes, I have bought private insurance for themIs your family already insured either through your own insurance or a private one?
It's all about a dependent mother and brother. The Germans do recognize that in their law.Wanderer wrote:I think the problem is the Germans, if it's not in their National Law, it's not recognised in EU law to them either, witness unmarried partners, German National Immigration Law does not allow unmarried partners, thereby they cannot allow it under EU law.
But how would they know how long they have been outside Germany? they dont stamp on the passport anyway.I also thought u had to come every 6 months,but not staying 6 months in a year.It's a residence card ('Aufenthaltskarte') what you want but it is not a carte blanche for visa free travel. They would have to stay at least six months per year with you.
No, they do not know but it is the duty of the residence card holder to report any change in circumstances. I think random checks can also be carried out.Majeztic wrote:But how would they know how long they have been outside Germany? they dont stamp on the passport anywayIt's a residence card ('Aufenthaltskarte') what you want but it is not a carte blanche for visa free travel. They would have to stay at least six months per year with you.
What do you guys think? Should I pursue my brother's case further or do you think there is no chance for him to get the residence?The only slight difficulty you will encounter, is if your brother is Over 21, as Germany did not make any provision for Article 3 Family member. If that is the case, prepare for a bit of fight with them, but i think you will prevail in the end
A directive would be called 'Richtlinie', the national implementation is called 'Freizügigkeitsgesetz/EU' but it covers only family members as explained to you. You would probably have to take a look into German national law ('Aufenthaltsgesetz', not sure about translation to English) how you can get residence for your brother.JuniorG wrote:The office worker told me that he works in the European section and that this is the European law. I tried to explain about the EU Directive 38/EU/2004 but I guess it is called something else here as he did not know about it.
Health insurance is not required since you are employed, but anyway..JuniorG wrote:The anmeldung from my mum
Her passport
A passport photo from my mum
Prove of health insurance for my mum
My passport
My anmeldung
My last payslip
They are referring to Article 2 of Directive 2004/38/EC but seem to be ignoring Article 3.JuniorG wrote:However, for my brother it was a big no no!! They told me that the law (they read me a paragraph from a big book they had) did not provide for my brother. The law covered my parents and grandparents, my spouse and children, her children, her parents and her grandparents! But no other family member!
Quite simply, if your brother is a person described in Article 3 of the Directive, Germany is required to facility entry and residence for him, treating him as if he were a person described in Article 2.JuniorG wrote:What do you guys think? Should I pursue my brother's case further or do you think there is no chance for him to get the residence?
Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 3 wrote:Beneficiaries
1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other
than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2
who accompany or join them.
2. Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have
in their own right, the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate
entry and residence for the following persons:
(a) any other family members, irrespective of their nationality, not falling under the definition in
point 2 of Article 2 who, in the country from which they have come, are dependants or
members of the household of the Union citizen having the primary right of residence, or
where serious health grounds strictly require the personal care of the family member by the
Union citizen;
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.
The host Member State shall undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances and
shall justify any denial of entry or residence to these people.
Is Germany incorrectly transposing the Directive? Solvit.86ti wrote:A directive would be called 'Richtlinie', the national implementation is called 'Freizügigkeitsgesetz/EU' but it covers only family members as explained to you.JuniorG wrote:The office worker told me that he works in the European section and that this is the European law. I tried to explain about the EU Directive 38/EU/2004 but I guess it is called something else here as he did not know about it.
If the brother as a person described in Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC, Germany is required to facility entry and residence for him, in accordance with the Directive.86ti wrote:You would probably have to take a look into German national law ('Aufenthaltsgesetz', not sure about translation to English) how you can get residence for your brother.
And Article 3.1 says 'in accordance with its national legislation'.benifa wrote:Is Germany incorrectly transposing the Directive? Solvit.
If the brother as a person described in Article 3 of Directive 2004/38/EC, Germany is required to facility entry and residence for him, in accordance with the Directive.86ti wrote:You would probably have to take a look into German national law ('Aufenthaltsgesetz', not sure about translation to English) how you can get residence for your brother.
Article 3(2) states, "..the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate86ti wrote:And Article 3.1 says 'in accordance with its national legislation'.
But that doesn't preclude this particular part from written into the same law that also covers national legislation. That was my point. It makes some sense to cover it there. Hence my suggestion to look into the national law.benifa wrote:Article 3(2) states, "..the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate86ti wrote:And Article 3.1 says 'in accordance with its national legislation'.
entry and residence for the following persons:.."
The national legislation referred to is that which is implemented following transposition of the Directive.
Just one question. Where exactly did you get your mother's residence card? You mentioned the city hall last time but is this also the 'Ausländerbehörde'? Quite possible that you would have to get a residence permit for your brother from a different place.JuniorG wrote:Wow guys! Thanks for all the replies!
To be fair, the guy I spoke to was very nice and asked me (after I tried to explain about the directive) to print it and bring it back to him so he can have a look at it. He told me that he couldn't promise anything (he has to follow his guidelines) but that he can have a look at what can be done.
I will take a copy of it for him tomorrow and see what he says!
The part that worries me is (as already highlighted by Obie and 86ti above) is where it says 'in accordance with its national legislation'2. Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have in their own right, the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate entry and residence for the following persons:
(a) any other family members, irrespective of their nationality, not falling under the definition in point 2 of Article 2 who, in the country from which they have come, are dependants or members of the household of the Union citizen having the primary right of residence, or where serious health grounds strictly require the personal care of the family member by the Union citizen;
(b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.
The host Member State shall undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances and shall justify any denial of entry or residence to these people.
The Directive certainly covers extended family members under the conditions outlined in Article 3 but allows member states to assess cases on the basis of national law. They can't just ignore this point but have to deal with it and argue a possible denial (see end of Article 3).JuniorG wrote:The part that worries me is (as already highlighted by Obie and 86ti above) is where it says 'in accordance with its national legislation'
According to the worker that saw me yesterday, my brother is not covered under their interpretation of the EU law. Does that mean that because their national law does not provide for extended relatives, then they are in their right to just ignore this point?