I wish I'd come here first!

[jdc3261]

Hi, I'm a Canadian permanent resident with a US passport, married to a UK citizen with 3 Canadian born children.....this is a bit of a mess, but I had read the UK Border Agency website over and over again and couldn't figure out where I fit. My husband and I have been living in Canada, married for 6 years and were presented with an opportunity to move over and live nearer his extended family, but it was pretty last minute and my husband was going to have to leave by the 5th of August. I highly doubted I could cart our three children under 5 years old and all our luggage on my own so I was trying to find out if I could come over here as a visitor and apply for ILR from inside the UK. My father-in-law consulted a paid website where you can ask a question and have it answered by a professional....he explained our situation and got a response from a legal consultant (as far as I'm aware) saying that I could come into the country with my husband and apply for a change of status from here. SO, since I'd gotten the answer I had been searching for but couldn't seem to get clarification on, we came into the UK, my children and I on visitor's visas with return tickets because we weren't positive we were going to stay. It turns out we had the help and the means to stay after all without making a trip back to Canada, so we moved in, applied for council housing, have our kids in school now, but I just called immigration today and they told me I have to leave the country and apply from Canada! I had entered Canada when I was 18 as a visitor and was told that as long as I had a legal status in Canada (including visitor) that I could stay, start, and finish my application process. I shouldn't have assumed it would be the same in the UK, but I believed that response my father-in-law received....I would have a hell of a time going back to Canada just to do this application, pulling my kids out of school, my husband out of his job, we already have our belongings being shipped here.
Sooooo, I guess my question is.....
Does anyone know what I can do to stay and apply from inside the UK? Like I said, I can't seem to find which category I fit into on the website.

[UKBAbble]

Does anyone know what I can do to stay and apply from inside the UK? Like I said, I can't seem to find which category I fit into on the website.

I'm afraid you can't change status here. You need to apply for a ssttlement visa in Canada. There really is no option any more.

[Casa]

This may not be much comfort, but your husband doesn't have to return to Canada with you when you submit your application for a spouse settlement visa. The application fee is £585, payable in local currency. Apply on form VAF4a, which you will find on www.visa4uk.gov.uk
If you have been married for more than 4 years and living for all of this time together outside of the UK, you can apply for Indefinate Leave to Enter, which will mean once you have passed the Life in the UK (KOL) test you can immediately apply for Indefinate Leave to Remain (ILR) without waiting the normal 2 years. You could take the test before you leave the UK.
Do your children hold dual nationality?

[batleykhan]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/d ... ow_ruling/

I am not sure you have to go back and apply. reading this article,it appears the wife was allowed to stay till her appeal, and after winning the appeal, she was allowed permanant stay.

Read and see what you make of it

[Casa]

Worth thinking about Batleykhan...but I'm sure you'll agree this wouldn't be a 'quick fix' route.
Suggest you contact an OISC registered Immigration Advisor for initial advice before you make any firm decisions.

[jdc3261]

Do your children hold dual nationality?

No, they are only Canadian right now...I think I can get my smallest daughter naturalised because she's not a year old yet, but if they don't hold dual nationality does that mean they all have to come back with me and re-enter? I was soooo hoping this wouldn't be the case...

I think I will get some OISC advice as well. And thanks for posting that article, at least now I know it's possible to appeal.

[Wanderer]

Do your children hold dual nationality?

No, they are only Canadian right now...I think I can get my smallest daughter naturalised because she's not a year old yet, but if they don't hold dual nationality does that mean they all have to come back with me and re-enter? I was soooo hoping this wouldn't be the case...

I think I will get some OISC advice as well. And thanks for posting that article, at least now I know it's possible to appeal.

They will have to return and reenter but that's not the end of it, it's £585 each for the visa - ouch....

[jdc3261]

Do your children hold dual nationality?

No, they are only Canadian right now...I think I can get my smallest daughter naturalised because she's not a year old yet, but if they don't hold dual nationality does that mean they all have to come back with me and re-enter? I was soooo hoping this wouldn't be the case...

I think I will get some OISC advice as well. And thanks for posting that article, at least now I know it's possible to appeal.

They will have to return and reenter but that's not the end of it, it's £585 each for the visa - ouch....

Oh noooo. Isn't there a family visa of some kind that covers a family? I thought I saw something like that in my searchings.

[Wanderer]

Do your children hold dual nationality?

No, they are only Canadian right now...I think I can get my smallest daughter naturalised because she's not a year old yet, but if they don't hold dual nationality does that mean they all have to come back with me and re-enter? I was soooo hoping this wouldn't be the case...

I think I will get some OISC advice as well. And thanks for posting that article, at least now I know it's possible to appeal.

They will have to return and reenter but that's not the end of it, it's £585 each for the visa - ouch....

Oh noooo. Isn't there a family visa of some kind that covers a family? I thought I saw something like that in my searchings.

With ILR/ILE which it seems like u qualify for I think u can add the kids on for sth like £50 each - not sure u need to check that. Even that would be about a thousand quid tho plus u'd need to pass the KOL test now while u r in the UK.

[INSIDER]

By virtue of the fact that their father is British your kids may well be British citizens. In which case there would be no need for them to return to Canada with you to apply for an EC.

Whether they qualify for British nationality or not would depend on several factors, eg where dad was born, dates of their birth etc. You'd probably be well advised to consult an OISC registered advisor who can talk you through it.

[Wanderer]

By virtue of the fact that their father is British your kids may well be British citizens. In which case there would be no need for them to return to Canada with you to apply for an EC.

Whether they qualify for British nationality or not would depend on several factors, eg where dad was born, dates of their birth etc. You'd probably be well advised to consult an OISC registered advisor who can talk you through it.

But wouldn't that depend what they entered the UK as? I'm assuming they entered as Canadian citizens and thereby can't switch even if they do have UK citizenship too (or the right to it). I could be wrong tho!

[INSIDER]

By virtue of the fact that their father is British your kids may well be British citizens. In which case there would be no need for them to return to Canada with you to apply for an EC.

Whether they qualify for British nationality or not would depend on several factors, eg where dad was born, dates of their birth etc. You'd probably be well advised to consult an OISC registered advisor who can talk you through it.

But wouldn't that depend what they entered the UK as? I'm assuming they entered as Canadian citizens and thereby can't switch even if they do have UK citizenship too (or the right to it). I could be wrong tho!

Wanderer,

Assuming they are British nationals then it doesn't matter what other nationality they possess or the reason for seeking entry here.

How easily the kids aqcuire nationality is dependant on the personal circs. of the poster and her husband. Best case scenario would be if he was born in the UK, in which case they are British nationals automatically.Other rules apply if dad was born outside the UK, but ultimately they would qualify for British citizenship.

[jdc3261]

Okay, from all the information I've received so far, I can't do anything about my situation since I've come into the country on a visitor's visa. I must go back to Canada and apply from there.....if this is the case, which it seems to be, would anyone know if I can expedite a marriage visa (with dependents attached) while I'm there? Just so I don't have to stay for such a long time?

Ugh, this means I will be in Canada without my stuff (as it was moved out of the house already and put on a boat), by myself with 3 children under 5, pulling the older 2 out of school/nursery to sit around and wait for 3 months for permission to come back....I'm not quite sure this feels real.

[Wanderer]

By virtue of the fact that their father is British your kids may well be British citizens. In which case there would be no need for them to return to Canada with you to apply for an EC.

Whether they qualify for British nationality or not would depend on several factors, eg where dad was born, dates of their birth etc. You'd probably be well advised to consult an OISC registered advisor who can talk you through it.

But wouldn't that depend what they entered the UK as? I'm assuming they entered as Canadian citizens and thereby can't switch even if they do have UK citizenship too (or the right to it). I could be wrong tho!

Wanderer,

Assuming they are British nationals then it doesn't matter what other nationality they possess or the reason for seeking entry here.

How easily the kids aqcuire nationality is dependant on the personal circs. of the poster and her husband. Best case scenario would be if he was born in the UK, in which case they are British nationals automatically.Other rules apply if dad was born outside the UK, but ultimately they would qualify for British citizenship.

OK, I'm not really getting it! Let's say then a Canadian enters UK on six month visa as normal, finds out while he's here he has a British born British Citizen Father, surely he can't then say 'I'm British' and stay?

As he entered the UK as a Canadian surely he has to leave as one and reenter as a UK citizen?

I'm quite prepared to be wrong on this, I'm not being stroppy, just need to get it in my head!

[Obie]

Citizenship is a reality that exist, with or without applying for a passport, so long as the conditions are met.

It would be a violation of a citizens rights to tell them to leave the country of their citizenship, before they can avail themselves of a passport, not Citizenship, as they are already a citizen of that nation.

[INSIDER]

Wanderer,

Obie has explained it to perfection. I hope it is clear. Oh, and I didn't consider you were being stroppy in the least.

jdc3261,

I'd really suggest you find out for sure whether or not your kids are British prior to incurring wasted costs and time in taking them back to Canada when this might not even be necessary.
I can tell you that if their father was born in the UK then I am almost 99% certain that they themselves would be British.

[Obie]

Provided the father is British Citizen in any other category other than by descent, the child will qualify for citizenship immediately.

If the father was not born in the UK but naturalised as British, the child will still qualify.

[jdc3261]

INSIDER and Obie,

Dad wasn't born in the UK, but was naturalised as a baby coming into the UK with his British parents. From what I just read on that application guide you linked, they definitely qualify. I was under the impression that since their father hadn't lived here for so many years before they were born, they didn't necessarily have the right to British citizenship. I was wrong again! You all are invaluable! So I guess now I need to find the forms for them and submit those a.s.a.p.

[Obie]

jdc3261 it appears your husband would have acquired his citizenship through descent.

Descent= Children born outside UK, and acquiring citizenship through parents citizenship alone and not by virtue of being born in the UK

Unfortunately, your child will not qualify, until they have lived in the UK for 3 years, then dad can apply for them to be registered.They will then be able to pass on citizenship to their future overseas born children.

A minor child cannot be naturalised. You husband would have acquired his citizenship at birth.

Naturalisation is a process used by adult, who meets the residency and other criteria to apply for citizenship. Naturalised citizens can pass on Citizenship to their overseas born offspring.


You have the option of not going back with the children to Canada and your husband applying for them for FLR/ILR which would be endorsed on their passport until they hit the 3 years resident in the UK, when they will qualify for a British Passport. Your husband has parental rights, therefore i can't see the Home Office asking him to take the child to Canada and apply for their residency there . Then again you never know.

In your case, i think you might have to apply for the spouse visa in USA or Canada. If you meet all the requirements, it will not be a problem.

As you have been married for over 4 years and have lived outside the UK, i think you can acquire ILE immediately , if it is possible for you to pass the Life in the UK test before you leave, that will be great.

[Wanderer]

That's bad news then, four times the fees with three kids...

[jdc3261]

This is a quote from the Chapter 20 Index page that you linked:

20.1.4 As a general principle, people are British citizens otherwise than by descent
if they are British citizens:
• by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom
or the Falkland Islands before 21 May 2002;

Dad was born in Canada but he was definitely naturalised in the UK in 1982. I've seen his baby passport that says he was naturalised here and he attended school, got a NI number and otherwise lived here normally for 13 years. I'm pretty sure (according to this anyway) he's in "otherwise than by descent". Doesn't that mean he could pass it on to ours? Unless I'm missing something....which is quite possible...