What is better to do?

[benbmxer]

Hello everyone,
I went through all the pages of this forum and I am really happy to see all the cooperation we can get from all of you who share your stories, cases and knowledge, thanks for that.

I'll be very grateful if I can get a piece of advice concerning my situation and the EEA2 application I intend to do this week:
I am from Bolivia and currently finishing a Master Degree in UK with a one year student visa that expires on Oct 30 2009. My wife is Italian and she is settled and working in UK. We got married in August 2009.
I am finishing my studies and I need to go to France to present my thesis on Oct 30th (I've been studying in France and came to UK as an Erasmus student), but my problem is that how am I supposed to travel to France if I'll have no passport after giving it to the HO for the EEA2?.

In the other hand, if I ever go to France without applying to the EEA2 yet, how am I supposed to get back to UK after Oct 30th if I'll have no valid document for UK anymore?.
Is it possible to get back to UK just by saying or showing somehow that I applied for an EEA2?

Please if someone could help me with some information or details of a similar situation you went through, it will be amazing.
Thanks in advance!!.
BEN

P.D: My wife would be travelling with me...

[John]

I am finishing my studies and I need to go to France to present my thesis on Oct 30

Do you need to go to France that specific day? Or can you go say a week earlier?

[benbmxer]

I am finishing my studies and I need to go to France to present my thesis on Oct 30

Do you need to go to France that specific day? Or can you go say a week earlier?

The University have settled the date of my presentation for Oct 30th. So definitely I was planning to go some days before. My concern is after Oct 30th when I'll want to get back to UK.

Probably I can ask to the Univ in France to present it before, even though I don't think this will be possible....let's hope. But still, I won't have my passport....

[John]

I think that needing to be in France on the exact date your current visa expires is the worst possible situation. In fact I can't think of a solution! I say that because Bolivians are now visa nationals and without a valid visa in your passport I can't see how the airline/train/ferry company would let you back into the UK.

But let's establish :-

How will you be travelling to France? Or rather how will you be travelling back to the UK? Are you intending to fly? Or take the train or ferry?

And when, after doing your presentation, do you intend to travel back to the UK? On the presentation date? Or on a later date?

[hopeless2009]

Why don't you still go ahead to france on the 30th and then fly to bolivia to apply for an eea family permit.less hassle.

[benbmxer]

I think that needing to be in France on the exact date your current visa expires is the worst possible situation. In fact I can't think of a solution! I say that because Bolivians are now visa nationals and without a valid visa in your passport I can't see how the airline/train/ferry company would let you back into the UK.

But let's establish :-

How will you be travelling to France? Or rather how will you be travelling back to the UK? Are you intending to fly? Or take the train or ferry?

And when, after doing your presentation, do you intend to travel back to the UK? On the presentation date? Or on a later date?

Well my intention was to remain in France for a few days after the presentation, but I planned that before being aware of the current problem. That is to say that now I am willing to do everything in order to avoid problems once in the UK Border. If I should go back the same day of the presentation I will (if I ever find places and connections available for travelling).
The best way for me to go is by plane.... or is there any other meaning of transport where the controllers are less strict?. I am just wondering, if ever I manage to do this presentation before, it won't be quite "suspicious" (if this is the correct word) to enter the to UK having just a few days left of VISA? I mean they could consider that just a few days after my entrance I'll be in UK illegally. How to prove that I am really applying for a EEA2?

What if I send my application EEA2 now without my passport for the moment? and then try to pass the border with a copy of my application already sent?

Thanks for your help Jhon, I know this is a very tricky situation.
Cheers

[benbmxer]

Why don't you still go ahead to france on the 30th and then fly to bolivia to apply for an eea family permit.less hassle.

If I just had the money to go to Bolivia whenever I could, for sure I will consider this situation. But honestly, besides the fact of trying to avoid problems with the HO, the most important thing for us now is to avoid having to go back to Bolivia. It's veeeeeeeery expensive and we don't have now this money. We just got married and that put the bank under pressure

Thanks for the idea anyway

[86ti]

What if I send my application EEA2 now without my passport for the moment? and then try to pass the border with a copy of my application already sent

You can try but the CoA (the confirmation of your application) may not arrive in time and most likely the CoA will not convince the airline check-in staff. But it might work with the Eurostar because British immigration officers check in Paris. In fact, you could also try with only your marriage certificate (in an acceptable format, is it a British one?) and best also proof of your wife exercising treaty rights in the UK.

[John]

Where in France are you trying to get back from? Paris? Somewhere near a channel port?

The point is that at Gare du Nord in Paris, and at the channel ports in France, for the train or ferry, there are juxtaposed immigration controls. That is, you clear (or hope to clear) UK immigration in France, and do not have to face UK immigration on arrival in the UK.

So if you present a completed form EEA2 with supporting documentation at that UK immigration somewhere in France, you should be allowed to proceed to board the train or ferry.

Alternatively, fly back to the UK on the 30th, and also have in your possession the completed form EEA2 and supporting documentation.

I mean they could consider that just a few days after my entrance I'll be in UK illegally. How to prove that I am really applying for a EEA2?

You would not be illegal in the UK. You would be here in the UK as a "family member" of your Italian wife, and as she is clearly exercising EU Treaty Rights in the UK, you are entitled to be here.

It is not compulsory that you apply for a RC ... residence card ... using form EEA2. That RC when issued is merely confirmatory of the rights already held by you. It does not give you any more rights! It merely confirms those rights are held.

But for a non-EEA family member such as yourself it is a good idea to apply for the RC, as it proves for example your ability to work in the UK, and secondly it avoids the sort of problem you are now facing to get back to the UK later this month.

[benbmxer]

What if I send my application EEA2 now without my passport for the moment? and then try to pass the border with a copy of my application already sent

You can try but the CoA (the confirmation of your application) may not arrive in time and most likely the CoA will not convince the airline check-in staff. But it might work with the Eurostar because British immigration officers check in Paris. In fact, you could also try with only your marriage certificate (in an acceptable format, is it a British one?) and best also proof of your wife exercising treaty rights in the UK.

Our certificate is an Italian one, but we will have it translated in English by a recognised institution (by the way do you know which institutions are recognised?) because we need that anyway for the EEA2 application.
Concerning the proof of the exercising rights, what should work in this case? a letter from her employer? contract?
Thanks for the help guys

[John]

Concerning the proof of the exercising rights, what should work in this case? a letter from her employer? contract?

If she has a Contract of Employment, supply that. Also supply payslips for say the previous 3 months. Or even 6 months if available.

Such documentation proves she is exercising her EU Treaty Rights in the UK as a Worker, that is, as an employed person.

[benbmxer]

OK, so if I regroup your advises, what I should do is apply for the EEA2 as soon as possible but without sending my passport to them. Then go to France and get back by train having the following documents:

- Certificate of mariage in english.
- Copy of my EEA2 completed and sent with the signed-for receipt.
- Proof of my wife exercising her treaty rights: wage slips, contract.
- Of course my passport.

That sound feasible......but will they be happy with copies? because I am just thinking now, all those documents must be sent with my EEA2 when applying for the RS. I'll have nothing but copies unless I send my EEA2 with almost no documents....probably they could even refuse an application without documents, is that right?

[86ti]

Totally forgot: For the EEA2 application you will also have to send in your passport otherwise HO won't accept your application. You can ask for it back (there is also a telephone number for emergency travel) but your schedule is already quite tight...

[86ti]

Why don't you still go ahead to france on the 30th and then fly to bolivia to apply for an eea family permit.less hassle.

Could also be done in France if visa validity permits.

[hopeless2009]

Please read below . That can help you out.

5.5.2 Seeking admission at port
Applicants at port should be treated as persons seeking admission unless reference
is made to applying for a residence card. Admission will fall into one of the following:
• produces satisfactory evidence on arrival
The person should be admitted for 6 months on a Code 1A. Complete landing card.
• Is unable to produce satisfactory evidence on arrival
The person should be given “every reasonable opportunityâ€

[benbmxer]

Why don't you still go ahead to france on the 30th and then fly to bolivia to apply for an eea family permit.less hassle.

Could also be done in France if visa validity permits.

Mmmmm this last option sounds very interesting, I could apply for this family permit from France. That will safe the risk of paying for Eurostar and being refused by the British controllers.

Even if I will have to stay in France for a while, I think this is the best thing to do. Are there any particular details to know about what could I need for applying from France?, what do you mean if VISA validity permits? are you talking about my French permit? or the type of french permit I got?

[86ti]

what do you mean if VISA validity permits? are you talking about my French permit? or the type of french permit I got?

You should make sure that your French permit is valid for long enough to receive your EEA family permit. In principle, the embassies have to issue one as fast as possible (and it is also free of charge) but the definition of "fast" differs from embassy to embassy and case to case. The average processing times are somewhere on the web but I forgot the link.

You will need to fill out form VAF5. It is 17 pages(!) but not all applies to your circumstances. Basically just submit everything that you would also send for the EEA2 application. In principle, you would only need a minimum set of documents (passport and marriage certificate) but if you want to avoid hassle better through at them a few documents more than formally necessary.

I think that this route is your safest option (though I would be very interested to hear if the other options would actually work out).

[benbmxer]

what do you mean if VISA validity permits? are you talking about my French permit? or the type of french permit I got?

You should make sure that your French permit is valid for long enough to receive your EEA family permit. In principle, the embassies have to issue one as fast as possible (and it is also free of charge) but the definition of "fast" differs from embassy to embassy and case to case. The average processing times are somewhere on the web but I forgot the link.

You will need to fill out form VAF5. It is 17 pages(!) but not all applies to your circumstances. Basically just submit everything that you would also send for the EEA2 application. In principle, you would only need a minimum set of documents (passport and marriage certificate) but if you want to avoid hassle better through at them a few documents more than formally necessary.

I think that this route is your safest option (though I would be very interested to hear if the other options would actually work out).

Thank you very much for your help! I will do that, apply for this permit in France. I just checked the times and usually it should take 15 to maximum 30 days to be issued (hereis the link). My Visa in France is valid until Dec 2009 (and even being extended at the moment) so there is no problem with that.

I would also like to know if the other options could work.... but I wouldn't like to be the one that says "guys the option doesn't work"
One last question, knowing that after France I'll enter UK with a family permit, once in UK I should apply for a EEA2 or for a FLR (M)? in order to get the RC?
Thanks again for your help to all of you.
Cheers

[benbmxer]

Sorry the link is here:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/processingtimes

[Ben]

One last question, knowing that after France I'll enter UK with a family permit, once in UK I should apply for a EEA2 or for a FLR (M)? in order to get the RC?

Form EEA2.

[benbmxer]

One last question, knowing that after France I'll enter UK with a family permit, once in UK I should apply for a EEA2 or for a FLR (M)? in order to get the RC?

Form EEA2.

Thank you!