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raghu0307 wrote:Here is an e-mail excerpt from my friend....OK read on.. I have purposely kept the name of the HR woman of the company so that people are aware.
Please all of you out there who havent yet resigned from their jobs.. think twice before you actually resign ........I am not recommending not travelling but all you guys need to be 200% sure on your skill sets.
read from below for continuity....
2009/10/6 xxxx<xxxxx@googlemail.com>
Hi Maria,
Please note that an HSMP or a General tier 1 visa is extendable on the basis of availibility of a job at the time of application of extension.
Thanks
xxxxxx
fromMaria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
toxxxx <xxxxx@googlemail.com>
date6 October 2009 11:12
subjectRE: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
mailed-bycapsoft.co.uk
hide details 6 Oct (1 day ago)
Hi xxxxxxx,
Unfortunately we will not be able to take your application any further as this is a permanent post.
We thank you for your interest in Capsoft UK.
Regards
Maria
fromxxxxx<xxxxxxx@googlemail.com>
toMaria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
date6 October 2009 10:44
subjectRe: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
mailed-bygooglemail.com
hide details 6 Oct (1 day ago)
Hi Maria,
My Visa expires on xxxxx, 2012(xxxx/2012). I have attached the scanned copies of the documentation to this e-mail for your reference.
Thanks
xxxxxxx
2009/10/6 Maria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
Hi xxxxx,
When does your Highly Skilled Migrant visa expire?
Regards
Maria
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxx@googlemail.com]
Sent: 06 October 2009 10:30
To: Maria Stein
Subject: Re: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
Hi Maria,
I am an Indian by birth.
Thanks
xxxxxx
2009/10/5 Maria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
Hi xxxxx,
What nationality are you by birth?
Regards
Maria
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: xxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxx@googlemail.com]
Sent: Mon 05/10/2009 21:31
To: Maria Stein
Subject: Re: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
Hi Maria,
Thank you for getting back. I am on a Highly Skilled Migrant visa (HSMP) and do not need any sponsorship for a Work Permit. I have been school educated in India but have completed my M.Sc in Embedded Systems at Heriot Watt University, Edinburgh.
Thanks
xxxxxxx
2009/10/5 Maria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
Hi xxxxxx,
What is your long term status as regards employment in the UK? You seem to have been school educated in India but have studied and worked in the UK.
If you can get back to me I would appreciate.
Regards
Maria
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxx@googlemail.com]
Sent: 05 October 2009 10:21
To: Maria Stein
Subject: Re: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
Hi Maria,
Hope all is well. I was wondering if there has been any progress on the application status for the Technical consultant role. Please let me know at your convenience. I am hopeful given my experience and the requirements for this role. I look forward to hearing from yu.
kind regards
xxxxxxx
2009/9/11 Maria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
Thanks xxxxxx,
I will get back to you.
Regards
Maria
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxx@googlemail.com]
Sent: 11 September 2009 15:50
To: Maria Stein
Subject: Re: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
Hi Maria,
Please find the document saved in .doc format. Let me know if you have problems opening it.
Thanks
xxxxxx
2009/9/11 Maria Stein <ms@capsoft.co.uk>
Hi xxxxxx,
I can't open the document. Can you forward in another format?
Regards
Maria
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxx@googlemail.com]
Sent: 11 September 2009 15:23
To: Maria Stein
Subject: CV for the role of Technical Consultant
Dear Maria ,
Thanks for taking time to over the phone this morning. As discussed I am sending you my CV. I have worked nearly five years as a Software Engineer and anTechnical Analyst. I also secured my postgraduate degree(M.Sc) in Embedded Systems(Computer Science) from the Heriot-Watt University. I was looking for roles with similar responsibilities as in my previous role, in the Edinburgh area. Please can you review my CV and let me know if it is suitable. I am available immediately for an interview.
thanks
Samar.
true... This might not be the only company and also people might have stable jobs. That is why I have written, I do not recomment not travelling, but I wish we actually could get some kind of statistics like, say how many people are in stable jobs 6 months after entering UK.mvent00 wrote:Yes, it is unlucky for your friend. But this does not imply that it is the end of the story. I mean this is not the only one this kind of company. There must be many more others. Many members of this forum, who are on HSMP and Tier 1 have very stable jobs. I know a few of them personally. I would recommend to your friend to keep trying. Wishing him all the best.
Yes, that is correct. But it is same all over the world, not only in UK.raghu0307 wrote:true... This might not be the only company and also people might have stable jobs. That is why I have written, I do not recomment not travelling, but I wish we actually could get some kind of statistics like, say how many people are in stable jobs 6 months after entering UK.mvent00 wrote:Yes, it is unlucky for your friend. But this does not imply that it is the end of the story. I mean this is not the only one this kind of company. There must be many more others. Many members of this forum, who are on HSMP and Tier 1 have very stable jobs. I know a few of them personally. I would recommend to your friend to keep trying. Wishing him all the best.
cheshireogan.... what are you really... are you into the software industry.. because looking at the absolutely lame comment that you have passed it looks otherwise. If you are, here is a reality check....I am tech consult working for a UK based company dealing with raster image processors and its applications(RIPs). I am on HSMP and I DO NOT HAVE A SCHENGEN VISA. My company applies a country specific visa for me every time I have to travel. The home office policies clearly state of equal opportunities for HSMP holders... that does not mention companies saving money on business visas..If this is an hidden agenda that the home office hasnt disclosed, then it proves the point about the lack of ethics in the home office policies.cheshiregoan wrote:There can be any number of reasons for people rejecting applicants from non-EU citizens. Nobody can deny that sometimes beloved/xenophobia is a reason, but you cannot say that it is the only or even the biggest reason.
What happens if the job requires a lot of travelling across Europe to client sites?
A non-EU citizen will have to apply for a Schengen business visa quite regularly.
My firm sends a lot of people to Germany very frequently. Many times they have to go with less than a day's notice. It isn't physically possible to arrange a Schengen visa in such short time.
It has also been mentioned 'elsewhere' that most HSMP guys do not bother applying to those jobs as it will be clearly stated SECURITY CLEARANCE REQUIRED. So no one is talking about those jobs.Like it has been mentioned elsewhere, what happens if the company is working with defence services? Non-EU citizens cannot get security clearance because it is almost impossible to genuinely identify their credentials.
You can keep listing logical non-dearly beloved reasons, but the problem is most people automatically blame beloved and xenophobia as the only reason why foreigners don't get jobs here, and that is just plain stupid.
Thanks buddy, it isnt my case...not that I have got the job of my choice thoughhsmp_1476 wrote:I have seen many such cases. Infact, my wife, who is on dependent HSMP visa was rejected few times stating that they dont consider "Dependents" for the jobs. There are ignorant ppl, but as everyone above has said, it is not the end of world. There are pleanty of other consultants with whom you can try.
Good luck
Vikram
hsmp_1476 wrote:I have seen many such cases. Infact, my wife, who is on dependent HSMP visa was rejected few times stating that they dont consider "Dependents" for the jobs. There are ignorant ppl, but as everyone above has said, it is not the end of world. There are pleanty of other consultants with whom you can try.
Good luck
Vikram
I never mentioned that Schengen visas were the reason for your friends job getting rejected.raghu0307 wrote:cheshireogan.... what are you really... are you into the software industry.. because looking at the absolutely lame comment that you have passed it looks otherwise. If you are, here is a reality check....I am tech consult working for a UK based company dealing with raster image processors and its applications(RIPs). I am on HSMP and I DO NOT HAVE A SCHENGEN VISA. My company applies a country specific visa for me every time I have to travel. The home office policies clearly state of equal opportunities for HSMP holders... that does not mention companies saving money on business visas..If this is an hidden agenda that the home office hasnt disclosed, then it proves the point about the lack of ethics in the home office policies.cheshiregoan wrote:There can be any number of reasons for people rejecting applicants from non-EU citizens. Nobody can deny that sometimes beloved/xenophobia is a reason, but you cannot say that it is the only or even the biggest reason.
What happens if the job requires a lot of travelling across Europe to client sites?
A non-EU citizen will have to apply for a Schengen business visa quite regularly.
My firm sends a lot of people to Germany very frequently. Many times they have to go with less than a day's notice. It isn't physically possible to arrange a Schengen visa in such short time.
The example above is that of an edinburgh based company with its clients in north american and asian sectors... So your EU logic doesnt hold fort...even they will require visas...
No one is actually trying to discourage.. If you care to read my previous posts, you will know... I have mentioned in this post as well, I DO NOT RECOMMEND NOT TRAVELLING...Well not that I really care what you think...but you need to think twice before actually bringing up your acts of naivety and lame accusations
It has also been mentioned 'elsewhere' that most HSMP guys do not bother applying to those jobs as it will be clearly stated SECURITY CLEARANCE REQUIRED. So no one is talking about those jobs.Like it has been mentioned elsewhere, what happens if the company is working with defence services? Non-EU citizens cannot get security clearance because it is almost impossible to genuinely identify their credentials.
You can keep listing logical non-dearly beloved reasons, but the problem is most people automatically blame beloved and xenophobia as the only reason why foreigners don't get jobs here, and that is just plain stupid.
We are here discussing the jobs that do not require SeC, the jobs which are targeted by HSMP applicants and holders.It is for these jobs that potential candidates are rejected....
I dont remember mentioning the industry as relevant.. This specific example is from the software domainI never mentioned that Schengen visas were the reason for your friends job getting rejected.
Secondly, my job or industry here is absolutely irrelevant.
No, My company doesnt apply for schengen visas for me. I normally have to travel to acton,virginia and japan..but I have friends who are soft engrs who travel to europe. I could get more information on the process if you want.. Those guys are on HSMP.Since you happen to regularly apply for Schengen visas, you will know its an annoying process and if you have to travel with less than a day's notice, it becomes very difficult to process.
Regarding the Security Clearance comment, perhaps this company may not be directly or indirectly involved in the defence industry but what if another employer who refused to hire non-Europeans was providing consultancy services to BAE. Why would they hire someone who will not be able to visit a very important client?
Please care to read my numerous posts before if you are making an accusation.My point is that as an automatic self-defence mechanism, most migrants automatically blame beloved/xenophobia when it isn't always the case. There is always an assumption that they have been turned down because the person is dearly beloved.
not me.. I have provided the e-mail excerpt...bottom line is , even if 10% of the guys go through this and get discriminated based on visa, nationality, race et al....it is plain wrong.. I am not against people travelling.. but they need to be 110% sure of their skill sets and the specific domains they are going to target.. Please read my previous posts completely in this thread....I won't deny that beloved is sometimes the reason but to imply that it is without knowing the facts is something that many members on this forum resort to.
You were the one who said that due to a "lame" comment I am not in the software industry. It is irrelevant here.raghu0307 wrote:I dont remember mentioning the industry as relevant.. This specific example is from the software domain
I know how to get Schengen visas and I know how to get visas for other countries. My company has applied for Schengen visa for me because my trip was planned one month in advance. However, if they tell me tomorrow that they want to me fly to Germany in the afternoon it will not be possible.raghu0307 wrote:No, My company doesnt apply for schengen visas for me. I normally have to travel to acton,virginia and japan..but I have friends who are soft engrs who travel to europe. I could get more information on the process if you want.. Those guys are on HSMP.
Please re-read my point.raghu0307 wrote:It is not those jobs that require SeC that are being discussed but the discrimination for those jobs that dont require them are discussed here.
I have read enough posts on this forum, where Indians and Pakistanis automatically resort to everything as being dearly beloved. You have implied as much in the other thread as well without nothing except a couple of instances of anecdotal evidence.raghu0307 wrote:Please care to read my numerous posts before if you are making an accusation.
beloved is wrong, but it is an inherent trait of every human being. It isn't acceptable to be discriminated against because of race but until it can be proven that race/xenophobia is the reason for something, it is equally wrong to imply that it is the reason.raghu0307 wrote:not me.. I have provided the e-mail excerpt...bottom line is , even if 10% of the guys go through this and get discriminated based on visa, nationality, race et al....it is plain wrong.. I am not against people travelling.. but they need to be 110% sure of their skill sets and the specific domains they are going to target.. Please read my previous posts completely in this thread....
an evidence is an evidence... if it points towards something unfair, we better accept it... denial is a sign of ignorance and ignorance is unfortunately not bliss in this case...I have read enough posts on this forum, where Indians and Pakistanis automatically resort to everything as being dearly beloved. You have implied as much in the other thread as well without nothing except a couple of instances of anecdotal evidence.
the very fact that there are many people without jobs is a pointer towards them being unsure while migrating...I posted something very genuine that I recieved..And if you are taking a life-changing decision of migration, you are already 110% sure that you will gain something overseas that you cannot in your homeland. If you didn't you won't decide to migrate.
Do you know the reason why this company won't accept HSMP/Tier 1?raghu0307 wrote:an evidence is an evidence... if it points towards something unfair, we better accept it... denial is a sign of ignorance and ignorance is unfortunately not bliss in this case...I have read enough posts on this forum, where Indians and Pakistanis automatically resort to everything as being dearly beloved. You have implied as much in the other thread as well without nothing except a couple of instances of anecdotal evidence.
Since you have asked something, I will tell you I know as much as the e-mail conversation says... My friend as I have heard only had e-mail interactions with the hr and everything is here.... If you read the mail from below you could see some continuitycheshiregoan wrote:Do you know the reason why this company won't accept HSMP/Tier 1?raghu0307 wrote:an evidence is an evidence... if it points towards something unfair, we better accept it... denial is a sign of ignorance and ignorance is unfortunately not bliss in this case...I have read enough posts on this forum, where Indians and Pakistanis automatically resort to everything as being dearly beloved. You have implied as much in the other thread as well without nothing except a couple of instances of anecdotal evidence.
I've read the email but it does not seem to highlight any hidden agendas that you were mentioning in the other thread. All you have proven is that some company in Scotland does not find it convenient to hire people on HSMP, can't see anything more sinister behind it.raghu0307 wrote:Since you have asked something, I will tell you I know as much as the e-mail conversation says... My friend as I have heard only had e-mail interactions with the hr and everything is here.... If you read the mail from below you could see some continuitycheshiregoan wrote:Do you know the reason why this company won't accept HSMP/Tier 1?raghu0307 wrote:an evidence is an evidence... if it points towards something unfair, we better accept it... denial is a sign of ignorance and ignorance is unfortunately not bliss in this case...I have read enough posts on this forum, where Indians and Pakistanis automatically resort to everything as being dearly beloved. You have implied as much in the other thread as well without nothing except a couple of instances of anecdotal evidence.
Avoiding facial discrimination
Employers' responsibilities
This page explains how employers should avoid unlawful discrimination in their recruitment and employment practices while seeking to prevent illegal working, by carrying out the appropriate document checks on all of their employees.
It is important to remember that the United Kingdom population is ethnically diverse. Many people from ethnic minorities in this country are British citizens, and many non-British citizens from black and minority ethnic communities are entitled to work here. Therefore, you must not assume that someone from an ethnic minority is an immigrant, or that someone born abroad is not entitled to work in the United Kingdom.
Employers who refuse to consider anyone who looks or sounds foreign are likely to be unlawfully discriminating on facial grounds. If document checks are carried out only for prospective employees who by their appearance or accent seem not to be British, this too may constitute unlawful facial discrimination. If a tribunal upholds a complaint of facial discrimination, there is no upper limit on the amount of compensation that the employer can be ordered to pay.
Employers have a legal duty under current race relations legislation to avoid unlawful discrimination on facial grounds, and are therefore advised to carry out document checks on every prospective employee. The best way for employers to make sure that they do not discriminate is to treat all job applicants in the same way at each stage of their recruitment process.