A decision Finally

[yodiyokun]

Finally we got a decision albeit a refusal but at least its better than waiting aimlessly and endlessly.
I will try to summarize the contents of the refusal here cos dont have time to write in detail.
"
I am not satisfied , on the balance of probabilities that you meet the requirement of para 135A in particular
1. that you intend to make the Uk your main place of residence
2. you can adequately support yourself and accomdate in teh uk without recourse to public funds

Because

you applied to travel to the UK under HSmp and your dependants will acompmany you and yet you have not resigned or informed your employer of your inetentions neither do you have an arranged employement for when you arrive in the UK. Furter more you have not disposed of your assets here thus im not satisfied you intend to make the UK your main place of residence"

then she went on about funding... thats a bit long but the main crux of it is that i applied for a student visa earlier saying my guardian will be sponsoring my studies .... since my husband couldnt sponsor me then .. so he cant also have funds to relocate. she also doubts the source and authenticity of the funds and we did not show we have access to the funds.

the last paragraph is written verbatim

" you state that you will initially stay wih a relative however u provided no staisfactory evidence of accomodation available to you or its current occupancy. A letter from your relation is not adequate confirmation for suitable accomodation in the UK. Youhave not provided satisfactory evidence of the property in which it sis proposed you will live, without this i am not statisfied that the accomodation is available or that you will be accomodated without recourse to public funds."

Thats it.

I have already hired a lawyer.. but i want sincere comments on what you guy sthink went wrong.

I will list again the docs that was submitted.

work permit approval
bank statements for all our accounts both in naira and GBP roughly about 12000 GBP
docs showing land valued by a registered valuer.
university and prof certificates
marriage certs and birth cert
letters from our employers showing our salary
6 months payslips fr both of us
Work reference letters
letter from sisterin law in Uk
copy of her British passport
her mortage papers
council tax notice.
docs showing possesion of other assets like cars and stck stuff like that.

I cant remember everything now but i think thats about it.

[Chess]

This decision throughly stinks

The reasons do not hold water.

How many people did you apply for (yourself, Hubby and Children??

I had a similar predicament when my mother applied for a Visa to come and see me - however, I responded to all the refusal reasons one by one. No need to hire lawyer.

I am not satisfied that:

"that you intend to make the Uk your main place of residence" - this is pure rubbish - how can someone prove/disapprove this?

why should you dispose off your assets before you get a VISA??

About funds - you need to prepare an income/expenditure plan. demonstrate that you have access to funds...


Please prepare a letter adressing all the issues and re-apply for yourself and family will join you later

good luck

[John]

I agree with Chess, that seems a very unfair decision. But add the following :-

As regards accommodation, the documents you list do not appear to include anything to show that the property you will occupy initially will not be overcrowded. So was there anything to deal with that point?

The point is ... and this is a deliberate exaggeration just to illustrate the point ... if your relative's house is a 3-bedroom house and there are already 10 people living there ... then clearly that property would be overcrowded if you and your family move in ... and thus would be deemed to be unsuitable for the purpose of getting a visa.

Having said all that, as regards the ECO not being satisfied "that you intend to make the Uk your main place of residence", that is total rubbish. OK, this is not quite the same circumstance, and the application was in a different country, but when my wife applied for her spouse visa she was still in her job at a Government College, simply because we dare not assume that the visa would be granted. But it was granted and she promptly handed in her notice. You would no doubt do exactly the same.

Any suggestion that my wife was not serious about moving to the UK because she had not already handed in her notice at her job would have met with a very rude comment!

Hang in there .... deal with the ECO's comments one-by-one>

[yodiyokun]

Thanks for all your comments.
My husband is actually the main applicant and i with a son are dependants.

Chess we prepared an expenditure and funds statement for 6 months.... that was included in the application.

John as per overcrowding... well she asked how many people were living in the apartment and my husband told her...
2 adults with 2 minors under 10 years of age...its a 3 bedroom apartment.

well we cant reapply cos the work permit approval has expired now..its exactly 4 months today.

Also the officer did not return any of the documents she said she will look at.. which includes the approval letter our bank statemnsts fixed deposit certs and the docs proving accomodation.

So how do we reapply without the hsmp approval letter......... besides its stale. (Please correct me here if i am wrong)

Lagos mission in recent times have become a nightmare for a lot of applicants...
You will not believe that despite all our calls to customer service they kept saying they were making enquiries when a decision had been reached since 31st of OCtober ..... Thank God, yesterday someone finally told us the truth on phone and said a letter should have been sent out to us since. My husband had to dash there to collect another copy of the refusal letter.

Chess im sure you wil recall my other post you locked.... it was cos of my husbands expereince with the ECO that made me vent my anger then... she was just hostile.............made very derogatory remarks and actually told him the scheme is attracting the wrong people....

Finally Is there a crime changing my mind about using a student visa and for Gods sake i am not the main aplicant....and really at the time of the student visa application I had 4.4Million naira and 3000GBp in my account.
We were bouyant enough to sponsor the MSC but why will I when my father can and was willing to sponsor it.

I cant express how i felt when i read this refusal....and really can I blame them when an average nigerian is treated like shit.. because of a corrupt few.

The books say an EC manager reviews all refusals within 24hrs.....but i doubt if that works in Lagos...... apparently they are understaffed and overworked....statistics also say visas are issued in 90% of applications...thats on UK visa site...but I am very certain that statistic did not include nigeria...

I rest my case.

[Chess]

This is the ultimate nightmare - wit all your plans now put on hold.

Did the 'refusal letter' give you a chance to comment or appeal?

Unfortunately its gonna be a long struggle. I think you ought to re-apply and cross reference the old and new applivcation and systematically respond to all the issues they raised with new evidence as appropriate...


unfortunaley ECOs in Africa are a pain in the backside..they prove you guilty first and then its up to you to demonstrate that you are innoncent


Dont lose heart I am sure God has a plan....and not all that 'glitters (about UK) is Gold'.....the place can also be very frustrating....

Good Luck

[yodiyokun]

There is a chance to appeal...I guess that may take as long as 6 months
That why we decided to talk with a lawyer and just appeal.
as per my plans... the only thing is have to change accommodation immediately ..my rent has expired and have a quit notice so cant renew.
Thank God we still have our jobs and all assets..

I personally think I would have lost interest by the time the appeal pulls through..Thank God for back up plans.

I really hope this experience is an exception not the rule

[John]

John as per overcrowding... well she asked how many people were living in the apartment and my husband told her...
2 adults with 2 minors under 10 years of age...its a 3 bedroom apartment.

Is it 2 adults and 2 children in the place now? If so, if you and your family move in, how many people living there then? Adults? Children? Age of each child?

Also, and sorry this is a bit technical, in that accommodation, ignoring any Spam, bathroom and toilet, how many rooms are there that exceed 50 square feet in size?

[Yinkuze]

Hi Yodi,

I'm sorry that all this happened.

Just relax and think through your next course of action

all will be well, its just a metter of time

Yinka

[yodiyokun]

Yinka..thanks

John to answer your question
the occupants now are 2 adults..2 children ages 5 and 7

we that seek to stay with them for a while... 2 adults and nine month old baby.

the house is question has 3 bedrooms bigger than the size you mentioned and 1 sitting room.

according to the rules you pointed to me sometime ago...my baby dosent count and children less than 10yrs are 0.5 adults

that makes us 5 adults.

the house has 4 rooms.... which entitles us to about 5 or so adults i think or more.

[iyanu]

Yodi sorry to hear this!

This is ridiculous and unbelievable; I have never seen this kind of a decision before. The ECO practically acted as if you guys had scores to settle, it is practically a personal decision. There is no doubt about this!

She acted as if she was jealous or something or what else can I say; This is wierd!

Anyway, what has happened had happened. The issue is - 'what next?'

I believe you just have to tackle it head-long and work it through with the Lawyer you have already hired, and with God backing you guys up, I say IT IS WELL.

Just calm now and refocus!

[John]

the house has 4 rooms.... which entitles us to about 5 or so adults i think or more.

Accepted .... but was there anything in your evidence presented in support of the visa applications to prove that conclusion? If not you certainly need to do that now in order to counter the accommodation point made by the ECO.

[yodiyokun]

John
I remember you mentioned this a while back after the interview...
But what type of document.... is it just something to show the no of bedrooms ..or it has to state the actual size...
if it is then..will try to get something that shows that be4 i submit the appeal.

Iyanu..thanks
we can chat on monday

Have a lovely weekend everyone

[Kayalami]

Yodi,

I join my fellow moderators and indeed other members on the forum in stating how sorry I am to learn of the refusal. It is a particularly harsh decision given the level of evidence you submitted. The refusal has minimal merit to it – for starters the aspects on intention to make the UK your home are subjective. Regrettably the powers granted to Entry Clearance Officers do act as a double edged sword and can cause extensive damage when misdirected accidentally or intentionally. Posts in Africa and the Subcontinent have historically had such high levels of refusals that the position of Independent Monitor was created to report to Parliament why such was the case – reports from the IM (there have been 3 IM’s to date) often find for applicants ranging from excessive delays in processing, lack of information, improper application of the rules etc.

As things stand this (IM issue) is of little comfort to you. I understand you intend to appeal and have engaged a lawyer – ask him/her how he/she intends to deal with clauses in the Nationality, Immigration & Asylum Act 2002 which render appeal rights ineffective/ non existent because you have a student visa that counts as leave to enter. Were you given appeal forms? IMHO a review given the expired approval letter and dealings with ECO to date has minimal chances. With the current improvement in HSMP processing times it appears best to re-apply from scratch again.

Good luck

[buntosanya]

Yodi

This is so ridiculous, i am short of words. We have seen People on this forum providing less Document and have still gotten their EC.

This is really sad, are there no set standards? I guess someone or maybe an higher officer should always have a second look at these decisions before they are stamped outrightly.

Oooh Yodi. I actually don't know what to say.

[yodiyokun]

kayalami,
Thanks
I dont understand your clause about assylum act 2002,
Becasue my student visa was actually cancelled. I was also given appeal forms.Please would appreciate if you enlighten me.
Also I can assure you If reapplying from scractch is the only option..then I am no longer interested..simply because getting the approval in the first place is a tug of war..getting it the first time is no guarantee i will get it the second time even if i submit the same docs. Aslo there will still be the problem of getting the visa.
Though the rules state that each visa application is treated on its own merit...I'm afraid thats not the reality at least in these parts.

Bunto,
Thanks..I still dont get it myself

[Kayalami]

1. On what grounds was your student EC cancelled?

2. Was such post or after the HSMP EC submission?

3. Are the refusals plus appeal forms for HSMP and/or Student EC?

[yodiyokun]

Kayalami,
will follow your numbering (please note i am not the main applicant just dependant)
1. During the HSmp interview.... the ECO told my husband she will cancel my student visa cos our circumstances had changed..and since he also claimed i had already asked for a deferal from the university till next academic session. The lady said since i had a student visa i shouldnt be applying as a dependant again.. ..... she was just annoyed unnecessarily a.. anyway thats all the reasons she gave.
2. During the Interview for the HSMP EC.
3.The refusal is for the HSMP visa and the appeal form is for HSmp visa.

I has a student visa before i applied as a dependant on my husbands HSMP application.

I hope this clarifies it.