Tier 4 refusal please help me!!!!!!!!!

[sunny07]

Hello All, please i need some good advise as im 100% genuine student with sholarship.

i applied for tier4 last month and got refused yesterday, whilst i have gained 10 points for funds and 30 points for visa letter but they refused me under 320 7b and ban for ten years and given me the right of limited appeal or admin review.

the reason that they did this is, i applied for my student visa in feb session this year like 6 months back, and my sponsor was my real maternal uncle who wanted to sponsor me genuinely! after applying they verified the bank and then they called my uncle to confirm, although i was told that BHC will call him so i already gave all the details about me to him written on paper that when ever they call him, he gave him all answers and he did the same, but then i got refused that under 3207A that "they verified my uncle, whilst he confirmed that he was willing to bare all my costs but he could not give correct answers about me or my course or college", which was wrong!!! as he gave correct answers according to his knowledge, i was given the right of appeal and i lodged an aapeal thru a solicitor in march and charged me some percent of his fees and told me i`ll be able to go in september, in the mean time i got scholarship in some good university, after a month my lawyer called me to apply under tier4 and i`ll get the visa, and ur last refusal will not affect ur case and i`ll be 100% successful, but atlast i got refused, and immigration offcr says in letter that i have used deception so that all my other application will be refused under 320 7b for 10 years, please help me what to do, i have given an option of admin review and i`m going to apply for it, please help me what evidences shud i attach along to cater my applictaion, i`ll be really really obliged as i dont want to waste my whole year please help

[sunny07]

and yes i forgot to mention, that in my new visa tier4 form i also mentioned in "have you ever been refused" section about this, plus i also mentioned in additional comments space about all this that my uncle was called he gave correct answers according to his knowldge but still there could be some misunderstanding as he is not that much educated or good in english communication.

and they have also ignored this, so please i have to submit my admin review by tomarrow or day after, so give me some good advise as its going to be a last chance for me, thats a humble request

[evabeva]

oops sorry to hear this

i am in the same situation as you , i was refused under 320 7A , I am given the right for admin. review but they did not mentioned that I was banned for 10 years. No ban at all!

[sunny07]

evabeva.....i was refused under 320 7A too it doesnt say ban but 320 7B does! thats wot haas happened....if i was aware before then i wud never ever applied a fresh application but hell with my solicitor who misguided and ruin my carrer just for their bloody fees, please somebody help me wot shud i do i have to apply for admin review

[meats]

evabeva.....i was refused under 320 7A too it doesnt say ban but 370 20B does! thats wot haas happened....if i was aware before then i wud never ever applied a fresh application but hell with my solicitor who misguided and ruin my carrer just for their bloody fees, please somebody help me wot shud i do i have to apply for admin review

They haven't ruined your career, you can study in another country if needs be.

I don't know why they asked your uncle where and what you are studying. They should've only checked his bank statement to confirm that the money was there. Although it would've been better if he transferred the money into your account.

[sunny07]

meats, that time before March 2009 there was no such rule, as we cud show them the statements , infact they did verified the bank too and then they called uncle...which made all confusion, and yes the point u raised is very important and i have thought about this as well, that i shud clear them that money was in "bank which they admitted too" and then eco also admitted that ur "uncle was willing to sponsor me" the only thing that claim is that he cud not answer abt "the course name and college and dont know anything about me" is controversial, so if they say "he was willing to sponsor me" then their all claims are useless, and yes i shud tell them that he was my real uncle and at that time i submitted my mothers id and Uncles`s id with visa file which shows D/O and S/O one person, and they are real brother and sister, i think i shud resubmit this thing again with admin review? and i hope they dont say im sending extra documents with admin review....

and as u sid i can go to some other country, but dont u think after 10 year ban every country is going to see me as something very alien...as 10 year ban is not a small issue , it raises many questions....but answers and the real facts behind are so silly?

[meats]

meats, that time before March 2009 there was no such rule, as we cud show them the statements , infact they did verified the bank too and then they called uncle...which made all confusion, and yes the point u raised is very important and i have thought about this as well, that i shud clear them that money was in "bank which they admitted too" and then eco also admitted that ur "uncle was willing to sponsor me" the only thing that claim is that he cud not answer abt "the course name and college and dont know anything about me" is controversial, so if they say "he was willing to sponsor me" then their all claims are useless, and yes i shud tell them that he was my real uncle and at that time i submitted my mothers id and Uncles`s id with visa file which shows D/O and S/O one person, and they are real brother and sister, i think i shud resubmit this thing again with admin review? and i hope they dont say im sending extra documents with admin review....

and as u sid i can go to some other country, but dont u think after 10 year ban every country is going to see me as something very alien...as 10 year ban is not a small issue , it raises many questions....but answers and the real facts behind are so silly?

Someone with more experience will no doubt give you more detail about what to do, but as long as your uncle had the funds in his account then there is nothing wrong. You didn't apply to one of the colleges that was suspended did you?

You can study in your own country? You don't need to study abroad to become qualified.

[sunny07]

Someone with more experience will no doubt give you more detail about what to do, but as long as your uncle had the funds in his account then there is nothing wrong. You didn't apply to one of the colleges that was suspended did you?

You can study in your own country? You don't need to study abroad to become qualified.
_____________________________________________________________

i know there was no harm to transfer....but that just happened as there was no specific rule that time....and i never applied in any college, i have done Bfa fine arts and was going to university of xxxxxxxxx for MA art and design, in old case, and my fees was also paid.

and now i was going in University of xxxxxxx for the Masters of Fine arts, with scholarship , and had 18000 GBP bank statement for living and all costs and they awarded me 10 points for that and 30 for the letter, and yes in Pakistan there is no MFA thats why im going t Uk for that :S

[evabeva]

evabeva.....i was refused under 320 7A too it doesnt say ban but 370 20B does! thats wot haas happened....if i was aware before then i wud never ever applied a fresh application but hell with my solicitor who misguided and ruin my carrer just for their bloody fees, please somebody help me wot shud i do i have to apply for admin review

They only applied the 320 7A rule on my case, no-where on the refusal I had 320 7B, does it still mean that since I was refused under 320 7A, automatically the rule 320 7B is applied too!

It doesn't make sense , they would have let me know.

Sorry to hear about it, but the solicitors..well most of them, they just have the eyes on money, they don't care much but only tell lies ...

[evabeva]

and another thing : HO has tighten the rules so much, you know before 2008 so many students extended their visa but using third parties which was not right, but still HO were not that strict, but then since 2008 they tighten rules a lot...

My advice to you: Don't worry too much, maybe it's not meant for you to do your studies in UK , just pick another country , maybe they have softer rules.
I promise, as I have been so many years in Uk, you won't miss much from that country, is grey all time , no sun! And is just crazy life, ppl just get drunk so bad...

[evabeva]

meats, that time before March 2009 there was no such rule, as we cud show them the statements , infact they did verified the bank too and then they called uncle...which made all confusion, and yes the point u raised is very important and i have thought about this as well, that i shud clear them that money was in "bank which they admitted too" and then eco also admitted that ur "uncle was willing to sponsor me" the only thing that claim is that he cud not answer abt "the course name and college and dont know anything about me" is controversial, so if they say "he was willing to sponsor me" then their all claims are useless, and yes i shud tell them that he was my real uncle and at that time i submitted my mothers id and Uncles`s id with visa file which shows D/O and S/O one person, and they are real brother and sister, i think i shud resubmit this thing again with admin review? and i hope they dont say im sending extra documents with admin review....

and as u sid i can go to some other country, but dont u think after 10 year ban every country is going to see me as something very alien...as 10 year ban is not a small issue , it raises many questions....but answers and the real facts behind are so silly?

I think 10 years is too much !! Is really utterly stupid of them to impose such a rule...

As if you were a criminal or a rapist lool

I think this rule should be overturned

So did they actually wrote to you on paper that u were banned for 10 years?

[meats]

meats, that time before March 2009 there was no such rule, as we cud show them the statements , infact they did verified the bank too and then they called uncle...which made all confusion, and yes the point u raised is very important and i have thought about this as well, that i shud clear them that money was in "bank which they admitted too" and then eco also admitted that ur "uncle was willing to sponsor me" the only thing that claim is that he cud not answer abt "the course name and college and dont know anything about me" is controversial, so if they say "he was willing to sponsor me" then their all claims are useless, and yes i shud tell them that he was my real uncle and at that time i submitted my mothers id and Uncles`s id with visa file which shows D/O and S/O one person, and they are real brother and sister, i think i shud resubmit this thing again with admin review? and i hope they dont say im sending extra documents with admin review....

and as u sid i can go to some other country, but dont u think after 10 year ban every country is going to see me as something very alien...as 10 year ban is not a small issue , it raises many questions....but answers and the real facts behind are so silly?

I think 10 years is too much !! Is really utterly stupid of them to impose such a rule...

As if you were a criminal or a rapist lool

I think this rule should be overturned

So did they actually wrote to you on paper that u were banned for 10 years?

If he's a genuine student, as it appears, then yes it is very harsh. However the rule was put in place because of the fake students exploiting the system and working full time instead of studying. Unfortunately innocent people have become victims because of the minority.

[evabeva]

meats, that time before March 2009 there was no such rule, as we cud show them the statements , infact they did verified the bank too and then they called uncle...which made all confusion, and yes the point u raised is very important and i have thought about this as well, that i shud clear them that money was in "bank which they admitted too" and then eco also admitted that ur "uncle was willing to sponsor me" the only thing that claim is that he cud not answer abt "the course name and college and dont know anything about me" is controversial, so if they say "he was willing to sponsor me" then their all claims are useless, and yes i shud tell them that he was my real uncle and at that time i submitted my mothers id and Uncles`s id with visa file which shows D/O and S/O one person, and they are real brother and sister, i think i shud resubmit this thing again with admin review? and i hope they dont say im sending extra documents with admin review....

and as u sid i can go to some other country, but dont u think after 10 year ban every country is going to see me as something very alien...as 10 year ban is not a small issue , it raises many questions....but answers and the real facts behind are so silly?

I think 10 years is too much !! Is really utterly stupid of them to impose such a rule...

As if you were a criminal or a rapist lool

I think this rule should be overturned

So did they actually wrote to you on paper that u were banned for 10 years?

If he's a genuine student, as it appears, then yes it is very harsh. However the rule was put in place because of the fake students exploiting the system and working full time instead of studying. Unfortunately innocent people have become victims because of the minority.

Ok I understand but since "yesterday" HO were just being willingly "blind" and "today" they just suddenly woke up and are screwing up things...

Whatever the situation, even if he was not a genuine student, 10 years is too much still...it's just not right

Look I am not defending non genuine student here, but you should understand where I am coming from...
Life is really about luck!

[King_Khan]

I don't think that the ban is imposed on you mainly because of your previous application although it might have been taken into account. In latest application did you provide them the complete scholarship documents? and on what basis did they refuse your case?

The 10 year ban is applied on those applicants who try to deceive the ECO by providing false/forged documents. If they had to ban you they would do so in the earlier case. There is no way they would do this with your fresh application. Would you provide more information about your fresh application? Maybe someone will be more able to help you somehow.

Thanks

[sunny07]

I think 10 years is too much !! Is really utterly stupid of them to impose such a rule...

As if you were a criminal or a rapist lool

I think this rule should be overturned

So did they actually wrote to you on paper that u were banned for 10 years?
___________________________________________________________

ya they have written on the refusal letter that he belives that i come under 320 7b and all my future applications will be refused

[sunny07]

King_Khan
Member


Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 50

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:52 am Post subject:

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I don't think that the ban is imposed on you mainly because of your previous application although it might have been taken into account. In latest application did you provide them the complete scholarship documents? and on what basis did they refuse your case?

The 10 year ban is applied on those applicants who try to deceive the ECO by providing false/forged documents. If they had to ban you they would do so in the earlier case. There is no way they would do this with your fresh application. Would you provide more information about your fresh application? Maybe someone will be more able to help you somehow.

Thanks
____________________________________________________________

Kingkhan, do u think i`m hiding anything at this point? not at all! they have refused it on previous application, the same reason for the sponsor verification, yes i did provide them all the scholarship offer letters, the confirmation letters, the visa letter also showed that i had a 50% of the scholarship! and the rest was paid, and a copy of paid fees was attached, a copy of draft was attached, a copy of accomodation confirmation by university was attached, even my TB certificate was indicationg that i`m a student with scholarship..........all they say is that i come under 320 7b just beacause the sposorship i taken on 12-02-09, and that is my previous application six months back

[sunny07]

and yes kingkhan i tell u all other documents which i provided with my fresh application along tier4 visa letter
O lev certificate
Intermidiate Certificate
Bach Of Fine Arts Certificate
Ielts Certificate 7 bands
Scholarship Letters
Accomodation Letter
Tb certificate indicating student with scholarship
Provisional Certificate
Bank letter for mainting account
Bank statement closing balance with more 18000 Pound Sterling
Reffernce Letter from Prinicipal
Refference Letter from Class teachers
Plus my Cv, which had a broucher of my Last painting exhibition at Museum in which it was written that it was conducted by Ministry of Culture and Govt of Pakistan and the guests of honour were Cousalte of United states of america, Minister of Culture Pakistan, Director of National Gallery Islamabad and directer Pakistan National Council of Arts plus Principal National College of Arts, and this broucher had a picture of them with me. I dont know how come Eco can deny all these things just because of that silly sponsor verification of my last application? so many reasonable persons supporting me how come he says that im not a genuine student?

[sunny07]

and yes i have informed my university about this crap and they are willing to accept me late as well, even course director has send me assignments which i`m gonna miss if i dont join them till 19th so they say u can do homework and submit them online while im in pakitan, everybody is so supporting except the BHC and ECO, please somebody kindly guide me wot shud i submit with my Admin review now....to claim that eco decision is meaningless

[evabeva]

ya they have written on the refusal letter that he belives that i come under 320 7b and all my future applications will be refused

Ok, sorry to hear that you have actually received this ban under paragraph 320 7B. On my case they just applied 320 7A rule. Maybe because I left within 28 days and before October 2008.

[sunny07]

AH! i thought that someone here would guide me but i dont know everybody gets mean when we need somebody at a time of need...

I have submitted my admin review by dhl to abu dhabi today with all supportive material and rejecting the clauses that these does not apply on me attached all the information about my uncle, that on wot day he was called during my last application, wot questions did they ask and wot he replied etc, i hope they show their sympathy on me this time

[prince.07]

Can u let your uncle write a statement/affidavit of support to back up your review. He will need to disclose his conversation with the ECO and challenge them to provide prove of their discussion. The statement need to be signed by him. Let him reconfirm your sponsorship and the documents he gave to u with your previous application in the letter. His statement is more useful than yours.

Goodluck.

AH! i thought that someone here would guide me but i dont know everybody gets mean when we need somebody at a time of need...

I have submitted my admin review by dhl to abu dhabi today with all supportive material and rejecting the clauses that these does not apply on me attached all the information about my uncle, that on wot day he was called during my last application, wot questions did they ask and wot he replied etc, i hope they show their sympathy on me this time

[wait]

i think 1st thing u need do is clear ur name from this deception charge coz i u done that then automatically u ll get visa coz they imposed only this on u n its better 4 ur future aplications if if they would refuse u but still u got chance to reapply otherwise its pritty much diff. to get any country s visa these days as they got the central varification system so u cant hde anything. try to clear ur self wid this charge n u wud b better of. best of luck

[sunny07]

prince, yes in my last application which was refused had all affidavit of support from my uncle and all his contact details with his id card and was signed by him, and as eco mentioned in my last refusal that they got all the records of my last application plus the refusal letter, so i think they will check it again, as they confirmed him my uncle and they also confirmed that he was willing to support me, wot i think is that the verification was done from islamabad and the person who verified on phone was very quick and harsh according to my uncle and he was keep on saying that "dont think about answers and tell me wot im asking quickly" but still he gave him almost correct answers! plus in my last application i also submitted a document "marriage certificate" of my parents which indicates the name of my Mother`s Father and my uncle is same! which confirms that he is my real maternal uncle not a fake one. So in my admin review i have mentioned everything and each detail, i hope they consider it

[sunny07]

wait
Member of Standing


Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 186
Location: London,England
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject:

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i think 1st thing u need do is clear ur name from this deception charge coz i u done that then automatically u ll get visa coz they imposed only this on u n its better 4 ur future aplications if if they would refuse u but still u got chance to reapply otherwise its pritty much diff. to get any country s visa these days as they got the central varification system so u cant hde anything. try to clear ur self wid this charge n u wud b better of. best of luck
_____________________________________________________________

Yes thats what i thought to that i should first of all give them evidences of my innocence, and i have provide all supporting stuff with my admin review,

please let me know, do u think that this charge of 320 7b can be rvised in admin reviews?

[sunny07]

I applied on 27th August 2009, bank was verified on 3rd of September 2009, Email regarding application process recieved on 16th of September, and when i called abu dhabi they said my decision has been made on 14th of Sept, and i collected my documents with refusal on 6th october 2009. Thats what the letter says,


I am satisfied that your application meets the requirements of paragraph 245z\/ of the immigration Rules, except for the requirements detailed below.

The Entry Clearence Officer`s reasons and supporting evidence
Detailed below are your scores in each of the areas for which you claimed points for attributes and controls, and the points awarded by the Entry Clearence Officer, with comments where there is a discrepancy.



Visa Letter (0 or 30 points available)
Points claimed (30 points required):
Points awarded: 30
ECO Comment:

Maintenance (0 or 10 points available):
Points claimed (10 points required):
Points awarded: 10
ECO Comment:

General Grounds for Refusal
ECO Comment:

The relevant Immigration Rules

You have applied for an entry clearence to the United Kingdom as a
Student for one year.
However, I have assessed your application against paragraph 320(7B) as I am satisfied that you fall to be refused under this paragraph.

Paragraph 320(7B) states that an application should be refused for the following reasons:

(a) Overstaying,
(b) breaching a condition attached to your previous leave,
(c) being an Illegal Entrant,
(d) using Deception in an application for entry clearence, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not),unless the applicant:
(i) Overstayed for 28 days or less and left the UK voluntarily, not at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Secretary of State,
(ii)used Deception in an application for entry clearence more than 10 years ago,
(iii) left the UK voluntarily, at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Secretary of State, more than 12 months ago,
(iiii) left the UK voluntarily, at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Seretary of State, more than 5 years ago, or
(iiiii) was removed or deported from UK more than 10 years ago.


The Entry Clearence Officer`s decision

I have refused your visa application on this occasion because I am satisfied that you fall to be refused under paragraph 320(7B).

The Entry Clearence Officer`s reasons and supporting evidence

You were refused entry clearence for using deception regarding sponsorship on 12/02/2009(refusal notice attached). I am therefore refusing you entry clearence under paragraph 320(7B) of the immigration rules. Any future applications will also be automatically refused, for the same reason, under paragraph 320(7B) of the immigration rules until 12/02/2019 (10 years after the refusal of the application in which deception was used.) 320(7B)

I therefore refuse your application.

Administrative Review

if you belive that the decision made by Entry Clearence Officer was incorrect you may apply for an Administrative Review of your case. You may request one Administrative Review of this decision.