Then are you resident in accordance with EU Directive 2004/38/EC?Rozen wrote:Benifa, we are employed and my husband is Dutch born and bred!
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Then health insurance is not a condition of the right of residence if your husband is employed.Rozen wrote:YES! We were living and married in the UK, before relocating to NL under the EU Directive.benifa wrote:Then are you resident in accordance with EU Directive 2004/38/EC?Rozen wrote:Benifa, we are employed and my husband is Dutch born and bred!
(A 'Dutch' Surinder Singh arrangement, if you like! )
Benifa, the health insurance bit is part of the conditions for residence! What I meant is that if you are going to live in NL long term, then you must be prepared to have health insurance! Everybody does! Anyone staying long term in NL will have to apply for a BSN (fomerly SOFI number) and get medical insurance. Otherwise you will be hard pressed to get medical treatment here (apart from emergency cases). Trust me, you'll get nowhere without it! That is the reality, and that’s all I meant. Hope that’s cleared it up a bit.benifa wrote: Then health insurance is not a condition of the right of residence if your husband is employed.
Member States are not permitted to impose additional conditions on the right to reside, other than those laid out in the Directive or in relevant case law.Directive 2004/38/EC, Article 7 wrote:Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on
the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and
have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or
(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host
Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal
purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the
relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as
they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member
State during their period of residence; or
(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions
referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).
Okay fine. But just so the OP knows, they will not be able to access medical services here in NL without Health Insurance. Except perhaps in an emergency. And that is the fact of the matter, regardless. Theory does not always reflect practice, as I'm sure most of us have come to discover in immigration issues. I am just advising the OP of what to expect, should they decide to come NL.benifa wrote:It may be a condition of access to healthcare in Holland that residents hold health insurance, but it cannot be a condition of residence for a person resident in accordance with the Directive.
And as I mentioned, it's valuable information that you provided.Rozen wrote:Okay fine. But just so the OP knows, they will not be able to access medical services here in NL without Health Insurance. Except perhaps in an emergency. And that is the fact of the matter, regardless. Theory does not always reflect practice, as I'm sure most of us have come to discover in immigration issues. I am just advising the OP of what to expect, should they decide to come NL.
Dutch citizens and their family members, returning using Singh, should be able to provide evidence that:Obie wrote:Apparently, there is a section asking for Lawful residence, and for family members of returning Dutch to provide proof of Lawful resident in another member state.
I use to pride the Dutch on good implementation of Laws, but it seems they have not made necessary changes to accommodate Metock, or am i wrong.
Quite Rightbenifa wrote:
And as I mentioned, it's valuable information that you provided.
However, access to healthcare is unrelated to the right of residence of EU nationals and their family members.
It is imperative that people are not led to believe that Holland is incorrectly transposing the Directive by requiring EU national workers to hold health insurance as a condition of residence for themselves and their family members.
As above section (7/1/a) closes with "OR", no more conditions can be added: As soon as you are a worker, you have the right of residence for more than 3 months.2004/38/EC wrote:Article 7
Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member
State; or
Ok, and how do you feel this contradicts Metock?Obie wrote:It ask for proof of Lawful Resident in the member state from which they came, for the Non-EEA Family Member of a Dutch Citizen. That one i am sure about.
The one i am having doubts about, is the proof of Lawful resident from resident provider, and sponsor.
YUP! Here's a brief summary of our IND interview..Obie wrote:Agreed, but a community worker, cannot avail themselves of free Health Care. Nevertheless, it is not Prerequisite for the issuance of a Resident Card or a Resident Certificate.
I have been looking at the Dutch Application , for Verification under community Law, which is the equivalent of EU 1 in Ireland and EEA2 in UK.
Apparently, there is a section asking for Lawful residence, and for family members of returning Dutch to provide proof of Lawful resident in another member state.
I use to pride the Dutch on good implementation of Laws, but it seems they have not made necessary changes to accommodate Metock, or am i wrong.
Rozen, you might be able to shed light on this for me.
The requirement for proof of prior lawful resident in another member state or lawful entry should not be a prerequisite for issuance of a Resident Card(non) EU family members of Dutch citizens as described in the ‘Notes’ section
You must submit the following additional documents and documentary evidence together with your application:
– A copy of your residence document issued by another Member State or Switzerland, showing evidence of your lawful stay with a Dutch citizen
in another Member State
– Proof that your Dutch family member has had lawful residence in another Member State or Switzerland
Obie wrote:(non) EU family members of Dutch citizens as described in the ‘Notes’ section
You must submit the following additional documents and documentary evidence together with your application:
– A copy of your residence document issued by another Member State or Switzerland, showing evidence of your lawful stay with a Dutch citizen
in another Member State
– Proof that your Dutch family member has had lawful residence in another Member State or Switzerland
When using Singh, in the case of a Dutch citizen returning to Holland, the Dutch citizen and his family members should be able to provide evidence that:Obie wrote:(non) EU family members of Dutch citizens as described in the ‘Notes’ section
You must submit the following additional documents and documentary evidence together with your application:
– A copy of your residence document issued by another Member State or Switzerland, showing evidence of your lawful stay with a Dutch citizen
in another Member State
– Proof that your Dutch family member has had lawful residence in another Member State or Switzerland
Correct if the EU national is exercising a Treaty right in another Member State, but if return to his own country after having pursued an economic activity while resident in another Member State, it is a requirement that he is able to provide evidence that:Obie wrote:The requirement for proof of prior lawful resident in another member state or lawful entry should not be a prerequisite for issuance of a Resident Card
Totally agree! I would like to believe that they would have accepted my (non EU) proof of 'lawful residence' with just my marriage certificate and joint bills/bank statements. But then again, they did see my UK Residence Card in my passport, so I don't know...benifa wrote:When using Singh, in the case of a Dutch citizen returning to Holland, the Dutch citizen and his family members should be able to provide evidence that:Obie wrote:(non) EU family members of Dutch citizens as described in the ‘Notes’ section
You must submit the following additional documents and documentary evidence together with your application:
– A copy of your residence document issued by another Member State or Switzerland, showing evidence of your lawful stay with a Dutch citizen
in another Member State
– Proof that your Dutch family member has had lawful residence in another Member State or Switzerland
a) the Dutch citizen was pursuing an economic activity while resident in another Member State and;
b) the family members were resident with the Dutch citizen.
If the family members were resident with the Dutch citizen in the UK, where the Dutch citizen was pursuing an economic activity, the family members' residence would always have been lawful. Therefore, any proof of this residency should be acceptable. Not necessarily a "residence document".
So yes, the Dutch are incorrect if they are accepting only a copy of a residence document issued by another Member State or Switzerland.
Correct if the EU national is exercising a Treaty right in another Member State, but if return to his own country after having pursued an economic activity while resident in another Member State, it is a requirement that he is able to provide evidence that:Obie wrote:The requirement for proof of prior lawful resident in another member state or lawful entry should not be a prerequisite for issuance of a Resident Card
a) the EU citizen was pursuing an economic activity while resident in another Member State and;
b) the family members were resident with the EU citizen.
Otherwise, how is he able to prove that Singh applies to himself and his family members?
Precisely, and were they to have not accepted your marriage cert and joint bills/bank statements as proof of residence in the UK with your husband (together with provision of his passport / National ID card, your passport and evidence of his pursuance of an economic activity in the UK) - they would have been in breach of the Directive and Singh.Rozen wrote:I would like to believe that they would have accepted my (non EU) proof of 'lawful residence' with just my marriage certificate and joint bills/bank statements.
Be sure they will come early in the morning before u leave to work,they know their work good.But something seems to be uncanny about the whole situation.I'm interested in which time police can ring at our door? Evening? Let's say me and my husband might be working daytime so if they come daytime and find empty flat so that's craziness then.